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Post by EmRR on May 30, 2017 20:57:25 GMT -6
A tricked out GE Uni-Level or Collins 26-J. Pretty much the same thing. Would you sell two plate reverbs to pay for a Bricasti? I don't think I understand the plate reverb question but maybe that's not directed at me? Sorry, no it wasn't. General question.
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Post by donr on May 30, 2017 21:03:26 GMT -6
Does anyone here regularly use convolution IR's of real spaces? Or Bricasti for that matter? I like Ocean Way for UAD, and I've spent a little time with Wave's IR's, but being able to transport my now relatively-neutral sounding acoustic recordings into a variety of convincing virtual spaces would be something I'd like to be able to do as part of the sonic palette. Have you tried Eventide Tverb? Love the room in that. It can be way more subtle. I have Tverb and like it, but I haven't gotten it to sound like a small space. Or maybe I'm just fooled by the GUI?
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Post by rowmat on May 30, 2017 21:19:25 GMT -6
The Large Wood Room in the 480L is a bit of a favorite especially for acoustic material. It's one of the 480L's more natural sounding verbs.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 30, 2017 21:40:23 GMT -6
One of the Chuck Zwicky presets - maybe discrete room? Then pull the mic down. I've liked that on acoustics.
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Post by ragan on May 30, 2017 22:13:35 GMT -6
Have you tried Eventide Tverb? Love the room in that. It can be way more subtle. I have Tverb and like it, but I haven't gotten it to sound like a small space. Or maybe I'm just fooled by the GUI? My go to is the "U47 in Omni" preset under "Ambience". I put that on a stereo aux and send things to it in varying degrees and it works some serious spatial magic for me.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2017 8:28:42 GMT -6
Think I've used that one too. I usually like to spread the mics out a little wider...and then pan...
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Post by Guitar on May 31, 2017 13:24:49 GMT -6
Does anyone here regularly use convolution IR's of real spaces? Or Bricasti for that matter? I like Ocean Way for UAD, and I've spent a little time with Wave's IR's, but being able to transport my now relatively-neutral sounding acoustic recordings into a variety of convincing virtual spaces would be something I'd like to be able to do as part of the sonic palette. This is the question I wanted to answer in this thread. Give some serious, thoughtful consideration to Altiverb 7 XL. It's a monster of real space convolutions, and very easy on CPU cycles, simple but powerful interface. It is also significantly cheaper than a Bricasti, even though, for a plugin, it is relatively pricey. I just don't think there's anything else out there that can touch it. It excels at exactly what we are talking about. Not that digital algorithm "reverb" sound, per se. But in accurately and transparently changing the space your tracks sit in. It's not like a digital reverb. You can really crank it up and not hear the sound of it. You've got amp simulators, tube compressor emulations. Here is your room simulator. The other day, I was doing a rig-test. I didn't have any new material to work on, so I did Levee Breaks, for fun. I used a space pair of fig-8 ribbons about chest high out front, and no overheads in my medium/small room. But I was able to send the close mics to a "2nd story staircase" and the sound was very convincing. I would even call it huge. Even though I know that word gets thrown around a lot. It's not just good on drums, either. I wanted my close miked Marshall amp to sound like it was sitting on a big pro cutting floor, with some stereo spread, so in comes a second instance of Altiverb 7. It feels like cheating, compared to miking your own room. Of course you can do a little of both. I was so impressed with the sound, I wrote a new song yesterday. So I says, why not go for the big studio drum and guitar sound again? It's right there for the having. Really fun. Nobody has to know either. My visitor, who is also a drummer and producer, says, wow, what a big wide drum sound. I said yes the R40 ribbons are a lot of that, but I've also added the Altiverb room sound. He says, "Whatever, those mics sound incredible." Sure, I'll take it!
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 31, 2017 13:57:58 GMT -6
Does anyone here regularly use convolution IR's of real spaces? Or Bricasti for that matter? I like Ocean Way for UAD, and I've spent a little time with Wave's IR's, but being able to transport my now relatively-neutral sounding acoustic recordings into a variety of convincing virtual spaces would be something I'd like to be able to do as part of the sonic palette. This is the question I wanted to answer in this thread. Give some serious, thoughtful consideration to Altiverb 7 XL. It's a monster of real space convolutions, and very easy on CPU cycles, simple but powerful interface. It is also significantly cheaper than a Bricasti, even though, for a plugin, it is relatively pricey. I just don't think there's anything else out there that can touch it. It excels at exactly what we are talking about. Not that digital algorithm "reverb" sound, per se. But in accurately and transparently changing the space your tracks sit in. It's not like a digital reverb. You can really crank it up and not hear the sound of it. You've got amp simulators, tube compressor emulations. Here is your room simulator. The other day, I was doing a rig-test. I didn't have any new material to work on, so I did Levee Breaks, for fun. I used a space pair of fig-8 ribbons about chest high out front, and no overheads in my medium/small room. But I was able to send the close mics to a "2nd story staircase" and the sound was very convincing. I would even call it huge. Even though I know that word gets thrown around a lot. It's not just good on drums, either. I wanted my close miked Marshall amp to sound like it was sitting on a big pro cutting floor, with some stereo spread, so in comes a second instance of Altiverb 7. It feels like cheating, compared to miking your own room. Of course you can do a little of both. I was so impressed with the sound, I wrote a new song yesterday. So I says, why not go for the big studio drum and guitar sound again? It's right there for the having. Really fun. Nobody has to know either. My visitor, who is also a drummer and producer, says, wow, what a big wide drum sound. I said yes the R40 ribbons are a lot of that, but I've also added the Altiverb room sound. He says, "Whatever, those mics sound incredible." Sure, I'll take it! I've been using Altiverb for years. IMO it absolutely destroys any other reverb plugin. Yes, very expensive, but its got everything that you need and does them all extremely well. Never understood why more folks didn't use it.
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Post by joseph on May 31, 2017 17:11:16 GMT -6
The Large Wood Room in the 480L is a bit of a favorite especially for acoustic material. It's one of the 480L's more natural sounding verbs. Yeah, really like that preset tweaked on vocals, because it adds width without sounding like panned delay effect, pushes vocal back without being plain jane. I always try it or small wood room on drums and as send for acoustic ensembles too.
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Post by joseph on May 31, 2017 17:21:13 GMT -6
You guys that can't afford a Bricasti (like me, because I keep spending money on instruments and amps) should really check out the Relab VSR S24.
I think it's the only plugin that can compete with Bricasti in terms of early reflection handling to emulate convincing rooms, being a reverse engineering of TC VSS6, as affirmed by Casey himself.
Has a different more pristine and jazzier sound, and more limited in terms of colors, but really sits nicely in the mix, and so good on drums.
I was thinking of getting a TC 4000 after Sweetwater cut the price so much, but honestly the plugin sounds better, being a more advanced process.
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Post by brewer on May 31, 2017 18:39:09 GMT -6
Maybe this is a dumb question but are there vendors or studios that will rent out the Bricasti?
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Post by drsax on May 31, 2017 19:10:48 GMT -6
You guys that can't afford a Bricasti (like me, because I keep spending money on instruments and amps) should really check out the Relab VSR S24. I think it's the only plugin that can compete with Bricasti in terms of early reflection handling to emulate convincing rooms, being a reverse engineering of TC VSS6, as affirmed by Casey himself. Has a different more pristine and jazzier sound, and more limited in terms of colors, but really sits nicely in the mix, and so good on drums. I was thinking of getting a TC 4000 after Sweetwater cut the price so much, but honestly the plugin sounds better, being a more advanced process. Agreed. Although nothing can do what the Bricasti does, VSR24 slays any plugin I've tried for early reflections. It sits in a mix and creates a sense of space unlike any plugin I've used. And it outperforms most outboard reverbs I've used... but not the Bricasti Nonetheless VSR24 is seriously impressive.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2017 19:13:03 GMT -6
Damn! Gonna have to try. Thanks guys.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 31, 2017 19:13:16 GMT -6
Doesn't seem like a dumb question at all Brewer. Welcome to the forum.
If you had tracks all finished, and rented a Bricasti, in theory, you could strap it on a bus on all the tracks, dial in the amount for each instrument, and 20 minutes later, print. You could do that with an albums worth of tracks in a day if you planned it well.
I have the new Liquid Sonics 7th Heaven, which is a Bricasti type plug-in, and I plan to see if it can replace either my UAD Ocean Way as my room sound, or my Relab XL480, or both.
If a rental was possible, you could then replace the 7th Heaven bus with the real thing, and not be too far off your intention for the song.
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Post by drsax on May 31, 2017 19:14:34 GMT -6
Damn! Gonna have to try. Thanks guys. Johnkenn - I believe Relab offers a VSR24 demo for trial
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 31, 2017 19:19:56 GMT -6
I have the Relab XL480, the UAD EMT-140, UAD's Ocean Way, the Liquid Sonics 7th heaven, Poor Plate, True Verb, and a half dozen other stock reverbs. When i read about drsax saying the VSR 24 is so impressive, I get fidgety, because I'll probably want one. I think maybe I'll leave it alone now, and eventually try a few hardware reverbs again.
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Post by roundbadge on May 31, 2017 19:22:22 GMT -6
I have a Bricasti and old EMT 140 here.neither replaces the other. that said if the plate goes I'd prolly replace it w/ another M7. M7 rules for fake spaces.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 1, 2017 10:15:17 GMT -6
This is the question I wanted to answer in this thread. Give some serious, thoughtful consideration to Altiverb 7 XL. It's a monster of real space convolutions, and very easy on CPU cycles, simple but powerful interface. It is also significantly cheaper than a Bricasti, even though, for a plugin, it is relatively pricey. I just don't think there's anything else out there that can touch it. It excels at exactly what we are talking about. Not that digital algorithm "reverb" sound, per se. But in accurately and transparently changing the space your tracks sit in. It's not like a digital reverb. You can really crank it up and not hear the sound of it. You've got amp simulators, tube compressor emulations. Here is your room simulator. The other day, I was doing a rig-test. I didn't have any new material to work on, so I did Levee Breaks, for fun. I used a space pair of fig-8 ribbons about chest high out front, and no overheads in my medium/small room. But I was able to send the close mics to a "2nd story staircase" and the sound was very convincing. I would even call it huge. Even though I know that word gets thrown around a lot. It's not just good on drums, either. I wanted my close miked Marshall amp to sound like it was sitting on a big pro cutting floor, with some stereo spread, so in comes a second instance of Altiverb 7. It feels like cheating, compared to miking your own room. Of course you can do a little of both. I was so impressed with the sound, I wrote a new song yesterday. So I says, why not go for the big studio drum and guitar sound again? It's right there for the having. Really fun. Nobody has to know either. My visitor, who is also a drummer and producer, says, wow, what a big wide drum sound. I said yes the R40 ribbons are a lot of that, but I've also added the Altiverb room sound. He says, "Whatever, those mics sound incredible." Sure, I'll take it! I've been using Altiverb for years. IMO it absolutely destroys any other reverb plugin. Yes, very expensive, but its got everything that you need and does them all extremely well. Never understood why more folks didn't use it. Some of us put our money where our mouth is and bought the expensive hardware. There is no substitute for the M7. You would need 10 core 7 Intel processors to attempt to keep up with the M7's data rates. Your little PC cannot do that.
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Post by drsax on Jun 1, 2017 10:32:12 GMT -6
There's a lot of great reverbs and plugins... and I've tried and own and use most of them. But jimwilliams is right - the Bricasti is in a class of it's own technically and sonically. It was one of my first high end studio purchases right after it was released and nothing else, including high quality M7 impulses come close to the real thing. I praised the VSR24 plugin above and I really do love it - but the Bricasti is still in its own league IMO. I've owned and used the Bricasti since it was released. It is a truly amazing accomplishment in reverb development.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 1, 2017 10:52:12 GMT -6
Man there is this crazy plugin called D-Verb.. not sure if you guys have ever heard of it. It's a secret weapon of most... just put it on the church setting cuz all of our music needs a little of Gods Love and crank the decay time to 12 seconds and listen to the blessings come from the speakers 😂
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 1, 2017 11:29:16 GMT -6
I've been using Altiverb for years. IMO it absolutely destroys any other reverb plugin. Yes, very expensive, but its got everything that you need and does them all extremely well. Never understood why more folks didn't use it. Some of us put our money where our mouth is and bought the expensive hardware. There is no substitute for the M7. You would need 10 core 7 Intel processors to attempt to keep up with the M7's data rates. Your little PC cannot do that. Pardon? I didn't say it was better than the M7... simply that it kicks the ass of any other software plugin I've used in the past or current.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 1, 2017 12:13:44 GMT -6
I've been using Altiverb for years. IMO it absolutely destroys any other reverb plugin. Yes, very expensive, but its got everything that you need and does them all extremely well. Never understood why more folks didn't use it. Some of us put our money where our mouth is and bought the expensive hardware. There is no substitute for the M7. You would need 10 core 7 Intel processors to attempt to keep up with the M7's data rates. Your little PC cannot do that. Hey Moneybags, got any samples of mixes you've done with that M7? ...that's what I thought.
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Post by drsax on Jun 1, 2017 12:27:34 GMT -6
Sheesh... things are getting a bit personal here. Jim seriously knows his stuff. I'm certain he has many great sounding mixes with the Bricasti. Unless you have tried the M7 hardware for any period of time, you can't know the difference. I have Altiverb, and all of Relabs verbs, Lexicon PCM, and all of the UAD verbs and room simulations, and exponential audio Nimbus, and many others... The plugin vs Bricasti argument is silly - especially if you've spent a lot of time with most verb plugs and the M7. I love some of my plugin verbs but I can't really reasonably compare them to Bricasti. Totally different beasts. Especially convolution verbs versus verbs that react and change in realtime based on complex algorithms. I bought the Bricasti at a time when I did not have a lot of resources. I sacrificed to get it. And it was worth every penny. I'm certain great mixes can be made with plugs, and they can be made with the M7 because I've made great sounding mixes with both. Keep in mind the guys who made the Bricasti are the leading reverb designers of of the last several decades. And they are improving it even as we speak. Completely original and evolving technology versus most plugs that are modeled or sampled from something old. There is very little to compare. Both are useful but they are completely different beasts.
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Post by drbill on Jun 1, 2017 12:31:59 GMT -6
Unless you have tried the M7 hardware for any period of time, you can't know the difference. I have Altiverb, and all of Relabs verbs, Lexicon PCM, and all of the UAD verbs and room simulations, and exponential audio Nimbus, and many others... The plugin vs Bricasti argument is silly - especially if you've spent a lot of time with most verb plugs and the M7. I love some of my plugin verbs but I can't really reasonably compare them to Bricasti. Totally different beasts. Especially convolution verbs versus verbs that react and change in realtime based on complex algorithms. I bought the Bricasti at a time when I did not have a lot of resources. I sacrificed to get it. And it was worth every penny. I'm certain great mixes can be made with plugs, and they can be made with the M7. Keep in mind the guys who made the Bricasti are the leading reverb designers of of the last several decades. And they are improving it even as we speak. Completely original and evolving technology versus most plugs that are modeled or sampled from something old. There is very little to compare. Both are useful but they are completely different beasts Completely agree with the doctor.
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Post by drsax on Jun 1, 2017 12:36:33 GMT -6
And there's no need to get in a pissing match over it all. But there are some heavy hitters on this board. Do some research and check out some discogs from some of the cats here. I'm certain Jim Williams has some killer sounding mixes using the M7. His reputation is somewhat legendary in the audio industry as one who clearly understands what it takes to make something sonically superior. My Bricasti has served me well with mixes - 10 to 15 #1 Billboard hits using the Bricasti and more on the chart than I could list, mostly contemporary jazz stuff. I'm not gonna take time to start posting links to it all, but using quality tools does make a difference. The M7 has benefited me greatly. And my resume pales in comparison to some. Check out drbill 's resume for TV and film. It's staggering. He does more in a year than most do in a career.
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