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Post by Ward on Apr 24, 2017 20:05:03 GMT -6
I'm waiting for the Gefell guys to figure out (and they will) how to recreate all the components of the U47 and U67 and reissue both. I believe it will happen.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Apr 24, 2017 21:05:50 GMT -6
I'm waiting for the Gefell guys to figure out (and they will) how to recreate all the components of the U47 and U67 and reissue both. I believe it will happen. One can dream, but I wouldn't hold my breath! Besides Gefell has no history with the K67/87/870! Now if they did an M7 U47 and or M49 I bet you might see Sennhieser do reissues with the K47 and a 67 reissue!
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Post by Ward on Apr 24, 2017 21:15:24 GMT -6
I'm waiting for the Gefell guys to figure out (and they will) how to recreate all the components of the U47 and U67 and reissue both. I believe it will happen. One can dream, but I wouldn't hold my breath! Besides Gefell has no history with the K67/87/870! Now if they did an M7 U47 and or M49 I bet you might see Sennhieser do reissues with the K47 and a 67 reissue! I'm still crossing my fingers that somehow, some day, Sennheiser divests itself of the Neumann division and both halves of the Georges Neumann Company GMBH can be reunited. I know, I dream....
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Post by drbill on Apr 24, 2017 21:33:22 GMT -6
I've heard both models are scheduled to be released right after world peace. <<thumbsup>> Then when famine and hunger are licked, Neumann and Gefell will re-unite!!
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Post by donr on Apr 24, 2017 21:59:21 GMT -6
You have to wonder why the marquee mic makers don't cash in making faithful clones of their legacy models. Well, Telefunken Elektroakustik has, but not the others.
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Post by ragan on Apr 24, 2017 22:13:48 GMT -6
You have to wonder why the marquee mic makers don't cash in making faithful clones of their legacy models. Well, Telefunken Elektroakustik has, but not the others. It truly is super weird.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Apr 25, 2017 6:20:57 GMT -6
You have to wonder why the marquee mic makers don't cash in making faithful clones of their legacy models. Well, Telefunken Elektroakustik has, but not the others. Simple if you Added all the production of all the 3k plus u47 in a year you wouldn't have a yearly production run of any current Neumann. Neumann is a high tech automated manufacturer, the Boutique manufacturers are more handcrafted low volume builders. Neumann would probably also tell you they would not be able to secure enough tubes of the quality they would demand to build and continue to support these modules. Well ok that's almost verbatim f what they said to me years ago plus they are not interested in the past ,they are interested in the future! Plus if you wanted a M7 you would be out of luck.
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 27, 2017 8:49:41 GMT -6
The new Gefell CMV-563/M7S has some of the tonal characteristics found with those specific mics you mention. The velvet of a 47, less bloated perhaps, with the present/articulate but solid middle of the 67, with the sparkly pristine air of the m49. All found inside one mic, if you can believe it.
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Post by Ward on Apr 27, 2017 9:05:21 GMT -6
The new Gefell CMV-563/M7S has some of the tonal characteristics found with those specific mics you mention. The velvet of a 47, less bloated perhaps, with the present/articulate but solid middle of the 67, with the sparkly pristine air of the m49. All found inside one mic, if you can believe it. Yes, she is a beautiful microphone. I still prefer my Neumann Gefell UM57, granted Sinsay says it's the best one he's ever heard... and it is a real gem.
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Post by aamicrophones on Apr 28, 2017 16:24:30 GMT -6
I used to work on those when they were popular in LA 20 odd years ago. They have a Russky metal jfet and a small thick film audio circuit board. If that goes SOOL. There is a crappy el cap that should be changed and three .015 uf ceramic disc caps used for the bass roll-off switch. A Wima .047 MKP-2 100V polyfilm cap fits nicely. These are also rf sensitive. Remove the ceramic caps off pin's 2 and 3 to ground and replace them with surface mount caps soldered across the pads on the rear of the circuit board. Hi Guys, the UM70's are lovely microphones but BUYER BEWARE they have M7 capsules which are prone to failure. I am just repairing two UM70's for a local broadcaster and both capsules have failed. Here is the schematic and you can see the hybrid circuit board in the triangle and the capacitors that Jim Williams spoke about. The microphones are transformer coupled. You can put signal in at point G to see if the circuit is working. The most common problem I have seen with these microphones is failing M7 capsules. Both microphones here have working audio circuits. Especially, as these microphones get older they will experience more capsule failures because of the PVC material changing it consistency over time. The UM57 is another lovely microphone and I repaired one a few years ago and was very impressed. I thought it was a better option to the U47. The also have traditional M7 capsules so there will be a huge difference as these capsules age between individual M7's. The one I worked on had a very nice sounding M7 but the tube was going noisy and it was easy to replace. Gefell used a EC92 which is a 7 pin triode with a plate impedance of 10K ohms. You can buy military grade NOS EC92 tubes for $6. The circuit is very elegant and simple with self biasing of the EC92. AMI makes a replacement transformer for $195. The parts to build this circuit with high tolerance components including the tube would be about $50 plus the AMI transformer. We use a similar circuit in our CM48T tube microphone but I choose to use a GE/JAN 5654w tube which is a military grade pentode that we strap as a triode like the U47 circuit. The 5654W gives us a plate impedance of about 6.5K ohms and it works really well with a 6.5:1 ratio transformer which was used in the U47 and U48. A properly working M7 capsule will be 4db noiser than a properly working K47 type capsule. This is hard to notice on close vocals but when used for distance miking or on instrument with low volume it would become noticeable. Case in point, you don't need to use a VF14 tube to produce a U47 type sound. In haste, as I have to pack up for a percussion gig tonight. I do have a file with our CM48T compared to a lovely sounding U47 with a M7 capsule and you can hear the difference which is quite subtle. The M7 does yield a slightly more velvet or lush sound but it would be hard to notice at all in the mix. They are incredibly close but I am using a slightly more modern transformer. However, we can fit them with the more vintage BV8 type transformer we use in our CM47VE. The slight difference are a result of the M7 and transformer. To me the CM48T sound 1/2 way between a U47 and M49 fitted with a K47 type capsule. What happens with the PVC diaphragm in the M7 is that it looses elasticity over time and becomes tighter and tends to smooth out some of the transients in the vocals or source. While K47 types remain much more consistent over time. Yes, there is always a trade0off. I will link the files of our CM47 compared to a nice sounding U47 at sometime tomorrow. Cheers, Dave aamicrophones.com
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Post by Guitar on Apr 28, 2017 16:30:35 GMT -6
Are you going to put some AA K47 capsules in them?
I was thinking if I buy some Thiersch M7 down the line for a project like this, it would be wise to pick the Mylar versions for these reasons of long term failure in PVC.
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Post by popmann on Apr 28, 2017 16:46:17 GMT -6
Love mine to death.
But, honestly.....I've had the new "Transformerless" versions here....they only LOOK like they old ones. The sound was....a totally different mic. To be clear--in a bad way.
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Post by jayson on Apr 28, 2017 20:26:03 GMT -6
I've fallen into kind of a groove with a bunch of the Gefell stuff; I have a UM57 with a variable polar pattern on the power supply, a pair of M582s with sequential serial #s and a UMT800; a solid state M7 transformerless mic with 5 polar patterns. Never been disappointed with any of 'em. Strangely enough the UM70 hasn't crossed my path - yet. Not too long ago it was fairly easy to find good bargains on mics from that side of the Neumann family, but they seem to be getting more scarce - don't seem to see as many of the old CMV563s anymore; I have to imagine that most have been scooped up at this point. I'd love to check out one of the new CMV563s, it's not an EC92 amplifier anymore be interesting to AB it with an old one.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 29, 2017 5:31:07 GMT -6
I've fallen into kind of a groove with a bunch of the Gefell stuff; I have a UM57 with a variable polar pattern on the power supply, a pair of M582s with sequential serial #s and a UMT800; a solid state M7 transformerless mic with 5 polar patterns. Never been disappointed with any of 'em. Strangely enough the UM70 hasn't crossed my path - yet. Not too long ago it was fairly easy to find good bargains on mics from that side of the Neumann family, but they seem to be getting more scarce - don't seem to see as many of the old CMV563s anymore; I have to imagine that most have been scooped up at this point. I'd love to check out one of the new CMV563s, it's not an EC92 amplifier anymore be interesting to AB it with an old one. I'd love to hear that too. I haven't had an opportunity to hear any of the Gefell mics. The CMV563 intrigues me.
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Post by reddirt on Apr 29, 2017 8:25:04 GMT -6
Guys, I own the new CMV 563 so I'll give you my opinion. It's a great mic on things that it suits e,g, accordion which is a long way away from the premium "jack of most trades"vocal mic I'd hoped it would be. With the stock tube (russian) it is quite broad band middly and a little deficient in the highs. however I have swapped it out with a NOS Telefunken EF 86 from the fantastic Christian Whitmore - (Bowie on this forum) whose service is right up there if you need valves. The Telefunken has definitely given it more tops but surprisingly , less lows. I like it a bit better better now though and it definitely still sounds quality but I reckon if I had my time around I'd seriously look at the Redd. I used the 563 yesterday as a backup on a singer guitarist's voice where I also had a Beesneez Arabella in fig 8 on his voice and a Blue Woodpecker on the 12th fret (fig 8) with an SP C3 on the body in fig 8, the guitar mics panned hard right, hard left. Because it was a back up and I was really just checking out the new tube, the CMV was into a Presonus FS pre whereas the Beesneez got the BAE 1073 as it's worked well in this configuration on this artist before. The CMV although only cardioid sounded pretty damned good and the off axis guitar sounded very real however adding the guitar mics for the right balance made the guitar sound a little middly due to phase and the image died so didn't use it, I stuck with the Beesneez. My take from that session is I think with proper placement the CMV could probably do the one mic only capture of vox and guitar pretty well.
The short of it is that whilst it can be terrific , knowing what I know now I wouldn't lust after it particularly at it's price, having said that it can be terrific on the right instrument and may be perfect for the right voice as it's that sort of source specific piece.
cheers, Ross
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Post by Guitar on Apr 29, 2017 9:52:11 GMT -6
That sounds like a pretty good description of how the mic is sounding in these videos:
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 30, 2017 11:40:07 GMT -6
The new Gefell CMV-563/M7S has some of the tonal characteristics found with those specific mics you mention. The velvet of a 47, less bloated perhaps, with the present/articulate but solid middle of the 67, with the sparkly pristine air of the m49. All found inside one mic, if you can believe it. Yes, she is a beautiful microphone. I still prefer my Neumann Gefell UM57, granted Sinsay says it's the best one he's ever heard... and it is a real gem. I actually have found similar things with Vintage Neumann Gefell UM57, they have similar things going on here. As does the new UM92.1s. Using that EF86, the tone is getting into that territory. Every time I plug in a UM92.1s I feel like the sound is like a threesome between a 47/67/49. You can find those UM57's for a good deal on Reverb. and the bay. I wonder why only sell for 2K......sounds more like 4-5K to me.
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Post by aamicrophones on Apr 30, 2017 20:24:23 GMT -6
Are you going to put some AA K47 capsules in them? I was thinking if I buy some Thiersch M7 down the line for a project like this, it would be wise to pick the Mylar versions for these reasons of long term failure in PVC. Hello, yes we are going to replace them with the AA K47 capsules. They belong to a radio station in Eastern Canada and they can only afford to spend $300 a microphone for repair. It a good 3 hours to get each one apart replace the capsule and then put them back together so the pattern switch still works. Cheers, Dave
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Post by Ward on May 1, 2017 8:56:14 GMT -6
Yes, she is a beautiful microphone. I still prefer my Neumann Gefell UM57, granted Sinsay says it's the best one he's ever heard... and it is a real gem. I actually have found similar things with Vintage Neumann Gefell UM57, they have similar things going on here. As does the new UM92.1s. Using that EF86, the tone is getting into that territory. Every time I plug in a UM92.1s I feel like the sound is like a threesome between a 47/67/49. You can find those UM57's for a good deal on Reverb. and the bay. I wonder why only sell for 2K......sounds more like 4-5K to me. They should be priced at $5K or better, considering what they are and how they sound. The fact that a transistor C414 can sell for more than them or an AKG C12a just points to market ignorance. Although, I do love mine, but still not in that esoteric league of sound like tube microphones. JMHO, YMMV and other disclaimers.
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