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Post by ngallio on Apr 25, 2017 1:37:42 GMT -6
Last year I assembled a Hackintosh for 800$ (excl. screen)
i7, SSD, FW400+800, three video outs. dead silent and in my most plug-in full sessions the cpu meter barely goes to 50%. only "problem" is that it still runs Mavericks (as my laptop does) and if/when I decide to upgrade OS it may be a little PITA.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Apr 25, 2017 3:36:37 GMT -6
matt you didn't try rolling back the OS to an earlier version? I still run 10.9.5 over here. I'm not a PT user tho...
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 25, 2017 4:57:31 GMT -6
I'm wondering how long my 2012 Mac Mini is going to last. I just crossed a threshold of some sort on mine, a maxed-out late 2012 with two SSDs and 16 gig of ram. It will no longer play back sessions in Pro Tools without overloading cpu and throwing the dreaded AAE-9173 error. After two weeks of deep troubleshooting, after trying EVERYTHING, I gave up and ordered a refurbed Mac Pro from Apple: 8 cores, 32 gigs of ram, D500 GPUs. I added two 1TB SSD external drives, and 8TB of backup space on two 4TB spinning raid arrays. I hated to do it but there it is - buy or die, my studio was dead in the water. But now I have a resilient system that is fully backed up - locally - and it just laughs at all of my session data. I hope to get 5 years out of this build, at least. Expensive but the only option was to leave PT, leave Apogee (which I might do anyway, they piss me off by no longer truly supporting the "legacy" Symphony MK1), and start from scratch with Cubase on Windows. But I just upped my PT license, and I've gotten to know PT pretty well, so I felt stuck. Spent some retirement fund. Sometimes you just gotta say WTF. Oh geesh. I'm running the same Mac Mini specs and PT. Haven't had any issues, but now I'm paranoid. Seems like that would've been a software issue, not hardware.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 25, 2017 6:14:28 GMT -6
I am on 2012 mbp i7 quad, 2 internal ssds and 16 gigs: probably running smaller sessions but no real problems to speak of: fingers crossed !
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Post by matt on Apr 25, 2017 8:20:37 GMT -6
matt you didn't try rolling back the OS to an earlier version? I still run 10.9.5 over here. I'm not a PT user tho... Yes, I tried every option available to me: Sierra. Mavericks. Reinstalling PT (multiple times). Updating the firmware on the Symphony. Rolling back the firmware. Reinstalling ALL plugins (and I own a lot of them). Trashing PT preferences (too many times to count). Checking and re-checking the Avid optimization list. Running endless diagnostics on the Mini, etc etc. It was hellish, to try something and watch PT overload the system, over and over.
The heartbreak moment was when a test session generated AAE-9173 messages. I created an empty project based off of my template (4 tracks of audio + BFD drums + extensive bussing for hardware outputs and plugin effects sends) and it wouldn't run for more than two minutes with NO audio or MIDI data. Empty tracks caused PT to push system load and cpu utilization through the roof. I validated this outside of PT with system monitoring tools, which showed that a session in playback would slowly drive up cpu until there was no more headroom. The only conclusion I could reach was that the Mini was being over-taxed.
I agree that it is likely I had a software-related issue. But I could not figure it out, and I did not want to spend every waking moment tearing my hair out - I had had enough of it by last Thursday. Life is too short for shitty software.
Anyway, my most complex sessions barely register system utilization on the nMP. PT loves ram and cpu cores. So do I.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 25, 2017 8:33:40 GMT -6
Drag for sure, did you ever run the session just with bfd drums: wonder if it was the vi ?
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Post by matt on Apr 25, 2017 9:03:01 GMT -6
Drag for sure, did you ever run the session just with bfd drums: wonder if it was the vi ? I tried that straight away. Eliminating plugins reduced cpu somewhat (as you would expect), but never to the point where overloads stopped. And who wants to run a system where you can't use plugins beyond a paltry few? BFD uses some resources, but it's footprint is not huge unless you load all to ram. Which I could never do on the Mini.
I now realize that this problem crept up on me. I started having occasional AEE-9173 errors about 6 months ago while on PT 11/Mavericks, but they were sporadic and just a mild nuisance. But recently the error frequency became a show stopper (still on PT 11/Mavericks). So I upped my PT license to v12 and decided to upgrade to Sierra. Surprisingly, that went smoothly. But there was no improvement to PT performance. In fact, as you might guess, the issue became worse.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 25, 2017 10:11:23 GMT -6
I don't know if this is true but I think anecdotally, there is a sort to unstated 5 year sweet cycle with digital technology; if your gear is inside that window, it probably works, but as you gets outside that window, you start having problems ?
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Post by matt on Apr 25, 2017 11:03:52 GMT -6
there is a sort to unstated 5 year sweet cycle with digital technology I think this idea is more than just an anecdote, it is baked into new technologies and associated hardware design. I would argue that 5 years is too long, and it's more like 3 years - or even less - between game-changing technologies in the computing arena. This is what held me back in buying a nMP - that in 2017 it is a 3+ year old design. However, when I looked into it, Xeon processing has evolved a bit differently than the i7 family. More cores, more L2/L3 cache, but slower speeds. They are built for a different use case (big data). Add in the reality that we probably won't see a new-new Mac Pro until 2018 or even 2019 and the choice became (painfully) obvious.
I have to say, my nMP is a sexxxy little thing, even with a bunch of Thunderbolt cables hanging out its side. I think it has an extremely innovative design that went down a few wrong paths (dual GPUs, no internal pcie slots). But then it wouldn't be cool looking, a must for any Apple product.
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Post by mulmany on Apr 25, 2017 11:19:29 GMT -6
If you still have the mini... Rip it apart and check the thermal paste on the CPU. I have been digging into random issues with the mini and discovered a lot of people have cooling issues because the paste they used between 2010-12 was crap and would dry out, and the heat sinks were not making good contact because they could flex to much.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 25, 2017 11:33:04 GMT -6
javamad said, "Key though to the iMac specs quoted in this thread is that we are finally moving past the absurd 16 Gb Ram limit. That certainly took too long " My 2011 iMac has 32 gb of Ram, so it must be certain models you're referring to.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 25, 2017 11:52:46 GMT -6
Firewire - thunderbolt 2 adaptor cable works flawlessly. My Digi 003r still going strong on my latest 27" imac.. Word I've heard is that firewire using Apple's TB adaptor performs better than it ever did with it on a motherboard!
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 25, 2017 13:34:36 GMT -6
@martin mbp and mini had a 16 gig limitation, that is why peeps were upset when apple upgraded the mbp last year but stuck with the 16 gig limitation.
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Post by matt on Apr 25, 2017 14:41:23 GMT -6
If you still have the mini... Rip it apart and check the thermal paste on the CPU. I have been digging into random issues with the mini and discovered a lot of people have cooling issues because the paste they used between 2010-12 was crap and would dry out, and the heat sinks were not making good contact because they could flex to much. I'm going to do a post-mortem since I want to re-task it, either for some undetermined function in the studio, or as a media server in my home theater. I'll check out the cpu, but I did not see any temp warnings and the cpu die temp never rose above 70C. I read that they are good up to 80C, but that was one of the many gray areas I encountered.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 25, 2017 15:30:17 GMT -6
I'm wondering how long my 2012 Mac Mini is going to last. I just crossed a threshold of some sort on mine, a maxed-out late 2012 with two SSDs and 16 gig of ram. It will no longer play back sessions in Pro Tools without overloading cpu and throwing the dreaded AAE-9173 error. After two weeks of deep troubleshooting, after trying EVERYTHING, I gave up and ordered a refurbed Mac Pro from Apple: 8 cores, 32 gigs of ram, D500 GPUs. I added two 1TB SSD external drives, and 8TB of backup space on two 4TB spinning raid arrays. I hated to do it but there it is - buy or die, my studio was dead in the water. But now I have a resilient system that is fully backed up - locally - and it just laughs at all of my session data. I hope to get 5 years out of this build, at least. Expensive but the only option was to leave PT, leave Apogee (which I might do anyway, they piss me off by no longer truly supporting the "legacy" Symphony MK1), and start from scratch with Cubase on Windows. But I just upped my PT license, and I've gotten to know PT pretty well, so I felt stuck. Spent some retirement fund. Sometimes you just gotta say WTF. I'm running the same thing too. My Seagate USB 3 drive has started to occasionally not mount...until I unplug and plug back in. Please tell me it's not the computer. Really don't have $2500 to spend right now.
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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 25, 2017 16:52:44 GMT -6
For those of you having issues with your 2012 Macs and Pro tools. I switched to Studio One 3. Got a lot more extended life out of my mac. I'm not even on Sierra. Solid! Just a suggestion...I just might be headed back to an analog desk to digital hard disk. No computer except for post.
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Post by javamad on Apr 26, 2017 0:49:25 GMT -6
javamad said, "Key though to the iMac specs quoted in this thread is that we are finally moving past the absurd 16 Gb Ram limit. That certainly took too long " My 2011 iMac has 32 gb of Ram, so it must be certain models you're referring to. Yes. I was referring to Macbook Pro which I have. I think I'll stay on mine until whatever the new Mac Pro is. For the moment anyway I am using 99% audio tracks and I have had no issues with my i7 with up to 100 tracks, despite having spilled half a glass of wine into it some months ago, in fact if anything my sessions sound a bit warmer now I think having 12 CPU of UAD where most of my plugins run helps, plus I am using less plugins since I went over to the summing dark side, so the laptop is hardly doing anything at all, 'cept sing along
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Post by ChaseUTB on Apr 26, 2017 13:03:15 GMT -6
Am I the only one that's really super eager to hear about the new Mac Pro? Since The day I found out Apple would be releasing the new one, I have literally been checking every day to figure out more details/ news and I feel it's becoming an issue 😂 Really Hope Apple doesn't pull a slate and prolong the concrete info til q4 2018 ☹️
Also I'm probably not one to put all my eggs in an iMac Pro basket but I have to admit an iMac Pro does sound convincing as long as it's modifiable or user upgradable ....
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 26, 2017 13:11:53 GMT -6
iMac's always seem to have more firepower than the more expensive Mac Pro's, so unless you need portability, the iMac is a powerhouse.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 26, 2017 13:55:22 GMT -6
Am I the only one that's really super eager to hear about the new Mac Pro? Since The day I found out Apple would be releasing the new one, I have literally been checking every day to figure out more details/ news and I feel it's becoming an issue 😂 Really Hope Apple doesn't pull a slate and prolong the concrete info til q4 2018 ☹️ Also I'm probably not one to put all my eggs in an iMac Pro basket but I have to admit an iMac Pro does sound convincing as long as it's modifiable or user upgradable .... Mac Pro is going to be way over my budget. Look at the price of the current pro spec'd the way you want and raise it by 10-15%. Martin John Butler, the current Mac Pro has much more power than the iMac. You can get a 12 core MP. That smokes every iMac out now.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2017 13:59:28 GMT -6
iMac's always seem to have more firepower than the more expensive Mac Pro's, so unless you need portability, the iMac is a powerhouse. As far as computing power you got it backwards Martin! Are you thinking Mac Book Pro?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2017 14:04:49 GMT -6
Am I the only one that's really super eager to hear about the new Mac Pro? Since The day I found out Apple would be releasing the new one, I have literally been checking every day to figure out more details/ news and I feel it's becoming an issue 😂 Really Hope Apple doesn't pull a slate and prolong the concrete info til q4 2018 ☹️ Also I'm probably not one to put all my eggs in an iMac Pro basket but I have to admit an iMac Pro does sound convincing as long as it's modifiable or user upgradable .... I don't know if eager is the word, this next MP will show us if Apple really cares about the professional market, or are we going to see the continued consumer dumbing down of Apples Pro products?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 5, 2017 13:31:23 GMT -6
Pricks. Still only 16GB RAM in the 15" rMBP. $2400.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 5, 2017 14:29:38 GMT -6
The story is the new iMac pro !
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 5, 2017 14:33:28 GMT -6
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