|
Post by dandeurloo on Jul 1, 2017 7:49:39 GMT -6
That's really interesting svart. Cowboycoalminer uses a modded Ghost and I know there are a few guys here who recommend modding Ghosts or Delta's. If the X2 really sounds better, than it's a steal, I think.. The Ghost and the Delta's are not the same. Delta's are a different level sonically and after modding they are seriously a incredible sounding console. The advantage of the Ghost is routing, the delta wins sonically for sure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 1:44:27 GMT -6
I think I've found one, for a while I was somewhat slobbering over an A&H GSR-24 until it met it's EOL.. It was feature packed for sure even with recall / mechanical faders.. I had a Zed R-16, although there was nothing wrong with it I found the lack of channels somewhat frustrating as I was hitting ITB a lot and eventually thought what's the point? I can have much better audio quality via an interface, I just have to suffer with a mouse..
A few years later I bought a Xenyx 2442FX? Stereo USB thingy for band practice, y'know what it actually sounded really good.. I liked the one knob compression and the onboard effects were actually better than some things I'd come across ITB (well it was a while ago).
Anyway where the naughty B word fell flat on it's face was the USB interface. It sounded nothing like what you were sticking in it, I had to on a few occasions double check with others in the room to make sure I'd not gone completely loopy. Although I could feel the whole mixer GAS coming back, so I got a 1640i which in all fairness wasn't that much different to using any mid ranged audio interface, so I got rid of that (also forgetting once again I dislike 16 track mixers).
Forgetting that I've had a fiscally draining year, I've still got that scratch to itch so I started looking after someone offered me a Soundcraft MTK 12 for $250.00 (well he kept changing his mind to what it actually was) but anyway, remembering this time that I dislike 16 track mixers I might actually pull the plunge and buy one (an MTK 22 that is)..
Several reasons, it has a 24 in 22 out USB interface and many have reported it has a latency of around 5 - 6 ms (full RTL).. Which is impressive for most standalone interfaces never mind one with a mixing desk attached to it.. It's converters have been reported as solid and they hang with some pretty decent stuff, I doubt they're Metric Halo levels but y'know I've made music on worse, it has 8 channels of DBX limiters / ghost pre's (Which I have one Daking left so I have options there) and Lexicon effects.. All this for the same cost as a mid ranged Focusrite and / or Apogee Duet.
I'm only doing this for funzies at this point, so I'll take it for the shiny lights if nothing else. Although over the years I've worked with Trident desks (had one back at college and it sounded beautiful) and API consoles, I've had some decent interfaces like the Metric Halo ULN-8.. Only reason I mention it is I've at least had the chance to draw reasonable comparisons. For a hobby, I mean I think I'd be crazy to invest in a proper console just to scratch an itch right? Also to note proper audio interface / mixing desks / consoles that cost less than a 100K get rarer by the day (odd as they seem to be extremely popular everytime one gets released).
Anywho, I'll report back if it sucks..
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Dec 27, 2017 12:50:42 GMT -6
I did some live sound design work over the summer at a Synagogue in NYC. They needed to make there current system workable. I came in and found the thing in a bad way; designed more for music in a retail environment than as a PA system, which is what they needed. So I installed a whole new system for them. They were in the mindset of everything new, so despite my telling them it didn't need replacing I replaced their old board with a newer model and inherited an Allen and Heath Mix Wizard 12:2 mixer. I've been considering pickup up a couple of patchbays and rewiring my system using that mix board as a summing mixer. I was curious if anyone here had used the Allen and Heath mixers for this purpose and wanted to get your thoughts. I've always been an ITB guy out of necessity. Now that I'm a bit microphoned out, I'm looking at some out board gear and wondering if it's worth hooking this up. 8 mono channels and two stereo channels, each with EQ. Each channel has direct outs and inserts.
|
|
|
Post by bradd on Dec 27, 2017 14:10:32 GMT -6
I'm getting ready to order a Cadac Live to replace my Ghost. It seems to have everything I need and gets good reports on the sonic front. I'll report back once I receive it and run it through its paces.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
|
Post by ericn on Dec 27, 2017 14:19:49 GMT -6
I did some live sound design work over the summer at a Synagogue in NYC. They needed to make there current system workable. I came in and found the thing in a bad way; designed more for music in a retail environment than as a PA system, which is what they needed. So I installed a whole new system for them. They were in the mindset of everything new, so despite my telling them it didn't need replacing I replaced their old board with a newer model and inherited an Allen and Heath Mix Wizard 12:2 mixer. I've been considering pickup up a couple of patchbays and rewiring my system using that mix board as a summing mixer. I was curious if anyone here had used the Allen and Heath mixers for this purpose and wanted to get your thoughts. I've always been an ITB guy out of necessity. Now that I'm a bit microphoned out, I'm looking at some out board gear and wondering if it's worth hooking this up. 8 mono channels and two stereo channels, each with EQ. Each channel has direct outs and inserts. Not a bad board, not a great board either but useable! I have said many times everybody should have some kind of little mixer for general problems solving, extra pre amps EQ 's matrix for quick mixes level matching extra headphone etc. so yeah play around with it.
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Dec 27, 2017 14:36:26 GMT -6
What's the idea for a console for most of y'all?
Tracking (pres and EQ, maybe some bussing) Patching / Routing (like headphone sends and whatnot during tracking) Summing mixdown EQ Mixing (actual mixing, not unity gain and automate ITB)
For me, I'm looking mostly for additional EQ, a way to integrate my hardware, and so on. (Like what Eric said)
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Dec 27, 2017 15:09:05 GMT -6
What's the idea for a console for most of y'all? Tracking (pres and EQ, maybe some bussing) Patching / Routing (like headphone sends and whatnot during tracking) Summing mixdown EQ Mixing (actual mixing, not unity gain and automate ITB) For me, I'm looking mostly for additional EQ, a way to integrate my hardware, and so on. (Like what Eric said) I use my delta like you are planning to.. to apply EQ and outboard to tracks I have already tracked. cheers Wiz
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
|
Post by ericn on Dec 27, 2017 15:31:37 GMT -6
What's the idea for a console for most of y'all? Tracking (pres and EQ, maybe some bussing) Patching / Routing (like headphone sends and whatnot during tracking) Summing mixdown EQ Mixing (actual mixing, not unity gain and automate ITB) For me, I'm looking mostly for additional EQ, a way to integrate my hardware, and so on. (Like what Eric said) If you can live with the limited bussing Delta/ Venue, DDA/ EV/ Dynacord/ University Interface are hard to beat for the $$$ Modded By JW and some of the best small consoles you will find but not viby! The Cadac Bradd is talking about is probably the best small full featured board you can buy new!
|
|
|
Post by bradd on Dec 27, 2017 15:40:06 GMT -6
Dogears, there are a number of things that I do that make a console very useful. I don't use a console for tracking since I have a number of outboard pres. I find that it is just the simplest way to integrate hardware during mixing. I move the faders when I mix, but I do most of my automation ITB. I also like to monitor vocals while tracking with a bit of reverb from my TC4000, which is very simple when using a console. Setting up headphone mixes when tracking a live band is also much easier with a console. I've looked at all of the summing solutions ad nauseum, but I just can't find one that does everything I need to do.
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Dec 27, 2017 16:37:21 GMT -6
yeah - I bought my Sound Workshop 1280b primarily for EQs and extra pres. I didn't research enough though. It has 8 busses so I thought to myself, great, this means 4 stereo headphone mixes.. but come to find out it was super purpose made for a Tascam 8 track. They're not fully functional busses, because each track can only be assigned to a single stereo pair (1, 2, or 1+2; but not 1/2 and 3/4). So, I can do 2 mono mixes (echo from each track or cue from bus) but it wasn't really what I was thinking of. But depending on the use, these little boards sound pretty cool. Edit - started a new thread to not derail this one with my newbie console questions.
|
|
|
Post by bradd on Dec 27, 2017 16:45:24 GMT -6
There are folks around here who are much better at routing issues that I am, but I have always done headphone mixes using two auxes out to my little Presonus HP4.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Dec 27, 2017 16:47:48 GMT -6
Redundant post. Please delete.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Dec 27, 2017 16:56:17 GMT -6
What's the idea for a console for most of y'all? Tracking (pres and EQ, maybe some bussing) Patching / Routing (like headphone sends and whatnot during tracking) Summing mixdown EQ Mixing (actual mixing, not unity gain and automate ITB) For me, I'm looking mostly for additional EQ, a way to integrate my hardware, and so on. (Like what Eric said) Tracking and mixing. Very little gets done ITB here. Slightly more than previously (which was none), but very little.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
|
Post by ericn on Dec 27, 2017 17:15:38 GMT -6
What's the idea for a console for most of y'all? Tracking (pres and EQ, maybe some bussing) Patching / Routing (like headphone sends and whatnot during tracking) Summing mixdown EQ Mixing (actual mixing, not unity gain and automate ITB) For me, I'm looking mostly for additional EQ, a way to integrate my hardware, and so on. (Like what Eric said) Tracking and mixing. Very little gets done ITB here. Slightly more than previously (which was none), but very little. John what console do you have?
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Dec 27, 2017 17:26:47 GMT -6
Tracking and mixing. Very little gets done ITB here. Slightly more than previously (which was none), but very little. John what console do you have? I have a 32 channel Soundcraft DC2020 inline console. Moving fader automation with 4 groups (which we don't really use), Soundcraft's best EQ section, splittable between input and monitor paths, built in TT patch bay, decent preamps, 4 stereo aux busses plus foldback. It came with a whole big pile of multichannel snake cabling with the necessary EDACs which did need some rewiring but still beat the crap out of having to buy thousands of dollars worth of cable and connectors. The whole thing cost me about 6 grand maybe 8 years ago. I'd rather have an API, but one can't have everything......
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 27, 2017 18:15:57 GMT -6
My thoughts about a console is I'd like a real EQ on all channels, and a convenient hardware reverb send and generally get some more analogue vibe. At home, I typically work one track at a time, so I can use whatever preamp I like best. Currently I'm using the Stam Audio SA73 1073 clone, and I like it even more than the Great River, and the great River's a good preamp.
Wouldn't mind an API at all myself johneppestein ;-)
|
|
|
Post by delcampo on Dec 27, 2017 18:44:02 GMT -6
I'll say that I bought a old Neotek series 1 theatre console for a relatively low price a few years ago. I was lucky however after doing that as I found a tech here in town that was up for the challenge of re-capping, adding transformers to busses, etc etc until it was turned into a little gem. He's very good. They're pretty solid sonically, nice bottom end and can be found for some good prices.
Before I did that, I had the 1st Cadac live to be shipped over here. I liked it a lot but for me, the real estate was just too congested between the channels, eq's etc. My vision is not so great so it was not ideal. But it did sound nice and clear. Just not the same degree of bottom extension as the Neotek.
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Dec 27, 2017 19:02:32 GMT -6
Well, based on that you may look into a Sound Workshop 1280b with super EQ like mine. The super EQ is great, similar in vibe to a 550A. The fixed band EQs are also very useful (low shelf at 100 or 120, 1.2k mid and a high shelf at 12k).
It has a built in echo send and is basically a 12:2 mixer. You can pick them up for around $1k.
The boards are not without their quirks and age specific issues (see my rebuild thread and questions threads). Haha.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
|
Post by ericn on Dec 27, 2017 20:00:06 GMT -6
I'm not going to dog the 1280, in the 80's I lusted after that thing but a 1280 like my first teac model 3 is a very limited console, while those limitations made me think of routing work arounds and limited EQ made me learn about mic choice and position, the fact that a 1280 needs somebody like Dogears who can and will put the effort in to get her to hang with the new kids.
Here is my advice grab a used Mackie 1604vlz or a Allen Heath or Soundcraft 4 sub group maybe even one of the little Crest Rackmount 4 sub. All of these will teach you the basics are mod-able and used won't break the bank, they are good enough that they won't keep you from making great records and deep enough that you will be able to learn what you need if your going to make the next step. Learning how you will work, rather than how you think you might work is going to save you from expensive mistakes on a expensive board or summing mixer or device! Even with The DDA & Otari Status currently in storage my little Behringer is still the most used piece of gear I own! It always finds a use in some way ! Of course if somebody wants a big board with automation I'll cut you a Stupid deal on the status😁
|
|
|
Post by subspace on Dec 28, 2017 8:44:58 GMT -6
What's the idea for a console for most of y'all? Tracking (pres and EQ, maybe some bussing) Patching / Routing (like headphone sends and whatnot during tracking) Summing mixdown EQ Mixing (actual mixing, not unity gain and automate ITB) For me, I'm looking mostly for additional EQ, a way to integrate my hardware, and so on. (Like what Eric said) I experiment all the time, sometimes tracking through the Trident console pre/EQs, sometimes the Audient console preamps, usually with a blend of Neve/API/Focusrite outboard preamps added to the the mix. I monitor via the MOTU 16A digital mixer. For mixing, I tend to stem tracks out to the Trident to use the channel EQ and routing to multiple busses. I like to insert outboard compression/EQ on the busses using the bus insert send then return them to automated channels on the Audient. So individual track automation is usually ITB before the console stem and bus automation is usually post outboard via the Audient VCAs.
|
|
|
Post by sean on Dec 28, 2017 9:32:33 GMT -6
For tracking, a console is a great tool. Easier to get mixes going, easier to route headphone mixers, nice to have a couple reverbs and effects on knobs so there are right there, and while I don't love the EQ's on the Sony MPX3036 at the studio, it's really nice to have filters and things right there.
I have a Trident Series 70 sitting in my laundry room and after a lot of thought I think I figured out how I want to use it for mixing at home. Using the first 20 channels in a summing mixer fashion out of Pro Tools, some parallel effects on busses with returns on open channels, tape echoes returning on channels so I can easily feed them back into themselves/each other, AES and analog outputs from Pro Tools feeding select outboard reverbs (spring reverbs, 80's shit I like, couple AES capable units), and a few compressors that I'd use as inserts. I think for me that's the best way I can use it at home but still make recall fairly simple. Because these days I've been getting a lot of mix tweaks and edits or radio edit request and that's a pain a lot of times.
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Dec 28, 2017 10:44:13 GMT -6
For tracking, a console is a great tool. Easier to get mixes going, easier to route headphone mixers, nice to have a couple reverbs and effects on knobs so there are right there, and while I don't love the EQ's on the Sony MPX3036 at the studio, it's really nice to have filters and things right there. I have a Trident Series 70 sitting in my laundry room and after a lot of thought I think I figured out how I want to use it for mixing at home. Using the first 20 channels in a summing mixer fashion out of Pro Tools, some parallel effects on busses with returns on open channels, tape echoes returning on channels so I can easily feed them back into themselves/each other, AES and analog outputs from Pro Tools feeding select outboard reverbs (spring reverbs, 80's shit I like, couple AES capable units), and a few compressors that I'd use as inserts. I think for me that's the best way I can use it at home but still make recall fairly simple. Because these days I've been getting a lot of mix tweaks and edits or radio edit request and that's a pain a lot of times. If I had unlimited funds I don't know if I'd get a 1608 or Series 70. The 70s seem like seriously cool desks.
|
|
|
Post by schmalzy on Dec 28, 2017 12:41:14 GMT -6
I use my desk for a few things. I like having it, it's useful, but it's not as useable as I'd have liked it to be.
I'm using it for preamps/inputs. I like having the 4-band EQ plus hp filter. I like pushing the inputs a touch, throwing a lot of level into the group outs and pulling the group output down a little. There seems to be a little love in pushing my Allen & Heath GL4 a little. I like being able to combine multiple inputs to a single output (though I rarely do it - I think it's going to become commonplace for me, though with tom top & bottom mics).
I've used the channels for some summing but it's got a little out-of-tolerance stuff happening between some channels so it's a little wonky setting it up.
I've mixed a couple things through it and, while cool, the recall would have been a nightmare if I had to mix more than one thing at a time through it. The most appropriate for it was an intentionally "warts and all" song and, had I needed to do more than one revision, I'd have tore the mix down and just done it all in the box or through the passive summing mixer with some compression on the appropriate channels.
It gets used for some headphone routing. It gets used for some other random audio misc duties.
People who come to the studio really are impressed by it, though. Truthfully, my other channel strips are better sounding but people really think it's awesome. It's good-sounding and swiss-army-style useful but not getting as much mixing use as I'd have hoped. If the channels were more matched, I'd be able to use it much more effectively. I'm trying to get someone to work on it but the people who I've reached out to have been non-responsive.
Does anyone here know of a good tech that can work on the desk without having to be in the same town with it? I've had email and phone conversations and then the techs have disappeared. I think the "not able to send it to them" and "not in the same town" thing is where things are hanging up. I'd love to have the channels worked through to get it new (and matched channel-to-channel) sounding.
Anyone know of a good tech who could go through it?
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Dec 28, 2017 12:57:22 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2017 18:35:40 GMT -6
Here, let me bump it again for ya. 😂😂
|
|