kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 23, 2017 15:43:08 GMT -6
I have been selling software to try to afford a bunch of 500 series eq's but getting cold feet about that total expense. I am on the computer all day at work and starting to hate itb mixing. Last week bumped into a deal on a pretty young faderport 8 so bought it, to try it and I have also been following the development of softtube's console 1, especially the mkii with its price drop and software update running UA plugs. Checked with Studio Economik and they are available in Canada this week, so bought one. Yes, not a very logical way to get more OTB , but perhaps a transitionary strategy ? I do appreciate the convenience of plugs, although I am using fewer of them. It wasn't so long ago that we sure couldn't get the functionality of the FP8 and console 1 for a grand, so I am very curious about working with them both and will share my experiences here. I usually use Logic, which does not have full FP8 functionality, so I am also demoing Studio 1 v3 Pro ( 30 day free), for its deepest integration with FP 8 and same for console 1. I was worried about losing logic drummer and its producer kits but I confirmed the other day, that I can export the producer kits as separate audio files and import into S1, so can have the best of both worlds. I normally start proper recording to a simple click and or drum loop and as I develop the song structure can easily bounce a version to logic, create the song arrangement and then a drummer track and export that to S1.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 23, 2017 16:45:58 GMT -6
I hate to say it, but I see a traditional console in kcat's future, it may just be a year or two though. Something like the API "The Box" would be cool if it wasn't overpriced, but the Audient ASP4816 looks tasty, doesn't it.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Mar 23, 2017 17:28:57 GMT -6
Regarding the 500-series EQs, it's a money pit. You'll just waste a bunch of time if you only buy two or 4 of them, and to really do anything, you'll want a situation that has at least 16 so you can send your entire mix thru them. That's where the money pit begins. Do you have a 16ch analog interface? Or just the 8analog + 8 digital everyone starts out with? Since you have that symphony Mk2, adding another 8 channels ain't cheap, so there's that. THEN you gotta get a 500-series Rack and all of the cables that go with it (two per channel to your patchbay!) Then you gotta stuff said rack with modules that don't suck.
Even if you go the DIY route and build all CAPI, you'll probably spend something like this:
8x8 Symph MK2 card $2195 2x CAPI VPR511 racks $319.99 + $319.99 + S/H 8x CAPI BT50 kits $449.99 x 8 + s/h 4x CAPI LC25 kits $349.99 x 4 + s/h 4x CAPI LC40 kits $349.99 x 4 + s/h
you still have 6 slots free (cuz you bought 2 racks with 11 slots each and only filled up 16 of the 22 and empty racks look terrible in the studio) so, you'll probably end up doing this: 6x CAPI VP28 kits $293.99 x 6 + s/h
Then, you gotta price out a soldering station (~$80), solder($20 cuz you'll want 1lb of the stuff to last you thru the build), a $100 paladin wire stripper tool (don't skimp on this), the wire and then your time.
So yeah, that's a lot of $$$$
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 23, 2017 17:44:17 GMT -6
I'm with Martin, my gofundmatt'sconsole page is eggzactly NFC !! I mix with 8 aux in my daw so i was thinking of starting smallish; one 10 slot 500 chassis, 8 eqs, the diy pultecs, and when I could afford them 2 of Brad's chromas for the buss, but even that is like easily $2500 usd and as I am in cdn plus another 30%. An amount I don't have and then frankly you are getting well into decent used console territory. I have had Jim mod my amp so there is always the delta Jim mod option but shipping across country is not cheap, right now on GS there are 2 nice audient 4816's for around 8 grand and I know where there is nice side car 12 channel calrec for around $3000. I have a little dough in the bank but frankly have some debt, so I thought buy the used Fp8, save a little dough and as I have sold some software this week get the console 1, pay down some debt and see what the future holds
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Post by drbill on Mar 23, 2017 18:04:32 GMT -6
So yeah, that's a lot of $$$$ Buy a pair, and run stuff out your DA into the EQ, tweak, and back into your AD and re record. Simple. Only takes a few minutes and you don't have to sell your kids to buy 16+ EQ's. (In my case it would be 64, and I'd have to sell my motorcycles along with my kids, so screw that.....) OR, do the broad stroke stuff OTB, and do the tweaky cuts and surgical stuff ITB.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Mar 23, 2017 18:14:01 GMT -6
That's true but half the time you can't hear the effect as much as you want unless you run EVERY track thru the outboard one track at a time, and who has time for that.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 23, 2017 18:27:36 GMT -6
Hey good Dr ! I will admit to considering that too. I haven't built anything for awhile ( I have a good soldering station thx to the recommendation of our good friend cat5 and built a c12 and mk-u47) and I must admit it would be fun to build something again. I am selling a few other things so if that all pans out, I may build 2 eq's with the good trannis to try them out !
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Post by drbill on Mar 23, 2017 18:40:10 GMT -6
That's true but half the time you can't hear the effect as much as you want unless you run EVERY track thru the outboard one track at a time, and who has time for that. Well then, you can always sell the kids. Just not the motorcycles. You have to compromise somewhere....
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Post by ragan on Mar 23, 2017 19:00:10 GMT -6
I only have a handful of channels of good outboard and I print everything through it.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 23, 2017 19:24:26 GMT -6
Let me see if I have this straight. You guys have way more experience with this than I do, so I'll just go back to the basics I used when I had my own home studio.
Having a good soundboard essentially gives me 16 or preferably 24 good preamps and EQ's. The main thing that's different now is getting it to go into the digital realm. So, good converters are necessary. Something like a Burl Mothership, a Dangerous Convert 8, or the Symphony.
We track to a DAW through the board, converting to digital to automate, auto-tune, add groovy plug-in effects, etc., and then mixdown either though the board again, or straight from the DAW to bounce, or to separate analogue outboard, like Sta-Levels, Pultec EQ's, Stam SSL compressors, whatever, and then record our final mix by converting back to digital.
We have options to add some outboard to the board for mixing or tracking, like digital reverb and delays, etc. We can also use outboard preamps if we prefer a different sound to the preamps in the board.
Let's say the board can be found for a steal, at $4,000 - $8,000. You don't need to spend one minute building anything, Matt could basically just buy it, get a patchbay together and start tracking in days. I don't see the advantage of building a stack of separate preamps if the board's preamps are good. Hell, Pete Townsend's made great albums using just the Audient board and whatever outboard he likes.
Matt already has 70% -90% of what he needs to use a board successfully and keep all the benefits digital offers. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by rocinante on Mar 23, 2017 22:36:08 GMT -6
It took me years to collect the gear i have and no matter what its gonna cost you. We are on a first world road my friends, make no mistake, this road has a toll. Do diy cause you want to for fun and education. Your not gonna save that much unless you seriously spread it out over a significant period of time with long term objectives and the ability to shop in bulk and super resourcefully. I use a controller with a console as i finish my neve line mixer and intergrate it too maybe one day be my studio centerpiece. Or as another mixing board aa i continue to mod the Ghost. If i were to do it again, id probably do 8 x nv73s and 8 x vp28s with a stepped rotary D-la2a on the master bus as well as an sa4000 and use an icon. Who knows.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 24, 2017 3:47:29 GMT -6
I appreciate the prudent advice about real probable costs. Right now, I decided to spend the less that a grand on the fp8 and console 1: try try them, as I currently have a big plug in investment. If I decided to go all OB, I could sell the fp8 and console 1 easily. I have honestly been thinking about this seriously for about 6 months now and have sold some software and listed all my ua stuff. It is also why I sold my apollo and got the symphony mkii. Frankly, I am very frustrated with UA's policy of not letting us sell individual plugs ins, as I think it undercuts your ability to get fairer value when you try to sell, as peeps know that you have no option and have to sell them all or none, so low ball you. I understand I am playing in a professional place and that a pro both has made money from their investment and has the further benefit of tax write offs so can sell lower, but I am getting offers for like less than .20 on the dollar and I am not going to give away $1,000's of $ of my money: I'll just keep the plugs ins and the octo card as they work great If I had gotten a fairer offer, I would have thought seriously about selling and using that money for this brave old world of OB Would people be interested in starting a thread about buying used consoles ? I am curious about basically what you get at different price points ? A month or two ago, I saw a used functional delta 8/24 in nyc that the guy wanted a grand for. I was really tempted to just buy it and ship the friggin thing to Jim and say go nuts ( not too nuts, but go nuts and ship it back I know you can ship just the modules but you get my meaning
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Post by drbill on Mar 24, 2017 9:45:25 GMT -6
Would people be interested in starting a thread about buying used consoles ? Sure. I've got a D&R OrionX automated 48 inline console with 120 total inputs that no longer fits my CRM, and has now been stored about 3 years. It's lightly used and an amazing console. It's not going to be sold for anywhere close to $1k though. Full TT/Elco patch bay as well - plug n play. You can be up and running in less than a day.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 24, 2017 9:56:50 GMT -6
JohnKenn, can you move this to a new separate thread ? So ball park DrBill what is the thing worth, just to have a sense of relative value ?
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Post by stratboy on Mar 24, 2017 20:54:25 GMT -6
Buying used consoles Check out APB Dynasonics. I think they are an undiscovered gem. Ask Ericn what he thinks of them. You can pick them up used for $1200-$2500, depending on how big you want to go. Clean mic preamps, nice HPF, good eq, lots of sends. A very clean, low noise design with excellent, road worthy construction.
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Post by drbill on Mar 25, 2017 0:03:56 GMT -6
So ball park DrBill what is the thing worth, just to have a sense of relative value ? Eh, probably $15-20k depending on patch bay situation and how many interconnects needed, etc. Hell, the patch bay cost me over $10k with a ton of sweat equity added to it. This was originally an $80k-ish console.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 25, 2017 5:03:04 GMT -6
Thx Dr, a little outside my meagre funds but, useful in the sense of relative value, buying a bunch of new 500 series eqs easily gets you into the $3000 range and, $3-5k; gets you into, I guess the lower range for a console , with some good quality mods, then in my mind $5-10K, $10-15K, $15-20K: depending on age, build, add ons. ? ( Put your own price on the having a good board cool factor:)
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 25, 2017 5:03:49 GMT -6
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 25, 2017 6:15:30 GMT -6
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Post by wiz on Mar 25, 2017 6:30:49 GMT -6
Delta
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 25, 2017 9:01:13 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Mar 25, 2017 9:42:56 GMT -6
Thought you guys might like a little console porn this morning..... There are mixers, and then there are consoles. Both work. Certainly budgets come into play when choosing. But consoles are more suited for being a centerpiece and heartbeat of the studio. If you want to sum OTB, then a mixer will work fine, although they are not all created equal. bp's OrionX that's FS - top pic. bp & RobS @ Sunset - a million hits have been cut on this old API bp on Capitol's 88RS - maybe the best mixer - I mean console - in the world. IMO. All consoles..... not mixers.
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Post by stratboy on Mar 25, 2017 10:04:31 GMT -6
This is what I am talking about. I paid $900 for my APB ProRack House.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 25, 2017 11:25:14 GMT -6
This is what I am talking about. I paid $900 for my APB ProRack House. Deals like that Spectra are few and very far between though. Had my eyes open for a while.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 25, 2017 11:29:02 GMT -6
Thought you guys might like a little console porn this morning..... There are mixers, and then there are consoles. Both work. Certainly budgets come into play when choosing. But consoles are more suited for being a centerpiece and heartbeat of the studio. If you want to sum OTB, then a mixer will work fine, although they are not all created equal. bp's OrionX that's FS - top pic. bp & RobS @ Sunset - a million hits have been cut on this old API bp on Capitol's 88RS - maybe the best mixer - I mean console - in the world. IMO. All consoles..... not mixers. Hold the phone. You're human? I figured you were just a bit. How's that 88RS sound? Clean as a whistle? Never used any newer Neve stuff.
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