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Post by c0rtland on Mar 27, 2017 16:45:40 GMT -6
m160 on toms sounded goood today
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Post by Guitar on Mar 27, 2017 17:22:40 GMT -6
m160 on toms sounded goood today I can't figure out your profile pic, is that a dog coming up under your hat from the water?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,939
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Post by ericn on Mar 27, 2017 18:14:27 GMT -6
What did those m88's cost off the shelf? ...if you don't mind me asking.... Going on a fair bit of memory here now... I believe they listed for $580 and street price was a $499 and I think that's what I paid for mine in 1992. By 1994, they were really unpopular and could be had for as little as $100. Lately, the cheapest I've seen one sell for is about $999. The MS version of the Fostex is something very special as well, it has its own sound but when it works it can give a small group just what you want without much work. It's kind of funny how ignored Fostex transducers other than than headphones were.
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Post by c0rtland on Mar 27, 2017 20:19:49 GMT -6
m160 on toms sounded goood today I can't figure out your profile pic, is that a dog coming up under your hat from the water? Well done. Shepard pup trying to crawl onto island cortland out of scary deep water.
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Post by forgotteng on Mar 27, 2017 20:40:57 GMT -6
Had great results with Royer R-101's on a choir in an old church in combination with a pair of Avenson ST02's. Fathead on guitar amps or over the shoulder mic for Acc guitar. Also used 101's as underhead cymbal mics. Just picked up a Rode NTR and I'm anxious to hear what that does.
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Post by noah shain on Mar 28, 2017 10:37:45 GMT -6
I'm usso bg an R121 on harsh ass female vocals this week. Surprised at how well it's working.
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Post by john on Mar 28, 2017 10:59:13 GMT -6
When recording others vox I always use dynamic or condenser but for my own productions I use the Coles 4038 for EVERYTHING. Before that it was a Royer 121 on everything and it really surprised me on bass amp. It's the only element that I miss the Royer on. Lately been going DI rather than amps.
The Coles especially shines on single-mic or overhead drum recordings and percussion parts. So natural and almost never needs any notch EQ.
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Post by c0rtland on Mar 28, 2017 12:06:41 GMT -6
When recording others vox I always use dynamic or condenser but for my own productions I use the Coles 4038 for EVERYTHING. Before that it was a Royer 121 on everything and it really surprised me on bass amp. It's the only element that I miss the Royer on. Lately been going DI rather than amps. The Coles especially shines on single-mic or overhead drum recordings and percussion parts. So natural and almost never needs any notch EQ. I definitely have an affinity for 4038. I think in the world of ribbons it's as useful as a 67. It's perfect for a lot of stuff but it will work on anything. That's been my experience so far anyway.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 28, 2017 15:39:21 GMT -6
Just had a chance last night to use an N8 as the side mic in an M/S setup (KM-140 as the 'mid'). It's a gallery I'd recorded in before (string quartet) and I was not at all happy with what I got from an LCR setup. The room was too live and had too much bite. I thought that M/S would give me a chance to remove room if I needed to. I also thought that the built-in rolloff of the N8 (somewhere around 4K) would help tame the harshness. Not all ribbons are symmetric on both sides, but the N8 is, so it's a good candidate for M/S. Worked like a charm. The inherent warmth of the ribbon blended beautifully with the detail of the Neumann. It's a combination I'd never used before, but I certainly will again. I don't get the thing about assymmetrical ribbon mics. Why the hell would I want a figure 8 mic that doesn't sound the same on both sides? The genius of David Royer is that he screwed up big time ribboning a mic and didn't get the ribbon centered in the motor and had the brilliant idea (from a marketing viewpoint) of maketing it as a "feature", not a defect (to paraphrase that other great marketing expert and con man, Bill Gates.) Sure, it gives you "two mics in one (kinda*.) But what it also does is make the mic useless for most of the things that make ribbon mics so great and unique. And people ATE THEM UP!!! BWAAHAHAHAHAH! * - If you're an amateur bedroom recordist who doesn't have a decent mic closet - or even a rudimentary collection**... **- Yes, I know lots of pros use them, but I'm speaking to the mentality. I get the feeling pros use them because they're a ribbon that takes SPL well. From what I hear most pros only use the one side.
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Post by joseph on Mar 28, 2017 18:02:05 GMT -6
At the moment, M160 on a Friedman, in a live on the floor situation. Was using an e22s, which sounded great, but I wanted to have it available for toms/snare.
I was using a pair of 160s on overheads (Paiste ride always sounds great with them), but switched to more open and less crunchy KM84s after a test with Shure donut shockmounts.
I quite like the R84 as a mono overhead or on Silverfaces, but not on an amp in a live situation, because it's too thick up close, and picks up too much bleed backed off.
I've been tempted to get a Royer, but in recordings it always sounds hard to mix, like it needs a compliment SM57 or condenser for the bite, unlike the M160, which sounds good by itself, has crazy rejection, and mixes easily as long as you don't put it close to the dust cap. I could be wrong about the Royer.
Also, I'm afraid the Royer would pick up too much bleed recording live. Not sure it would if right on the grill with high signal to rear noise, any thoughts?
I'm also tempted to get an M130 for M/S recording.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 29, 2017 6:59:38 GMT -6
I think the Royer was designed to be crammed up on the grille, I think that's a big attribute of the R121. It doesn't have that same bulky low end as a lot of other ribbon mics, a little more toppy than something like an R84 or a Coles 4038. At least that's how I've always heard it in comparisons.
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Post by forgotteng on Mar 29, 2017 7:46:19 GMT -6
At the moment, M160 on a Friedman, in a live on the floor situation. Was using an e22s, which sounded great, but I wanted to have it available for toms/snare. I was using a pair of 160s on overheads (Paiste ride always sounds great with them), but switched to more open and less crunchy KM84s after a test with Shure donut shockmounts. I quite like the R84 as a mono overhead or on Silverfaces, but not on an amp in a live situation, because it's too thick up close, and picks up too much bleed backed off. I've been tempted to get a Royer, but in recordings it always sounds hard to mix, like it needs a compliment SM57 or condenser for the bite, unlike the M160, which sounds good by itself, has crazy rejection, and mixes easily as long as you don't put it close to the dust cap. I could be wrong about the Royer. Also, I'm afraid the Royer would pick up too much bleed recording live. Not sure it would if right on the grill with high signal to rear noise, any thoughts? I'm also tempted to get an M130 for M/S recording. Ahh your pushing my buttons now. These are 2 things on my "list" m160's and a Friedman.
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Post by joseph on Mar 29, 2017 9:56:59 GMT -6
I think the Royer was designed to be crammed up on the grille, I think that's a big attribute of the R121. It doesn't have that same bulky low end as a lot of other ribbon mics, a little more toppy than something like an R84 or a Coles 4038. At least that's how I've always heard it in comparisons. Yeah, I figure it would probably work in that situation, but the M160 and E22 both have really good rejection (M160 is ridiculous) with drummer in the room recordings. Not sure if Royer would work out. R84 doesn't, but I don't like it right on grille. Guess I could simply test it right on grill and see the fig pickup.
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Post by joseph on Mar 29, 2017 10:01:34 GMT -6
Dirty Shirley 40 watter, fucking incredible and versatile. The mini is cool too. Amp before mics. M160s are classic, but for me they are almost utility mics for the rejection, and calming cymbals. I like a lot of other mics well on guitar cabs, like E22, RE15, U87, M88 as long as you find the sweet spot on cone.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,939
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Post by ericn on Mar 29, 2017 10:14:13 GMT -6
At the moment, M160 on a Friedman, in a live on the floor situation. Was using an e22s, which sounded great, but I wanted to have it available for toms/snare. I was using a pair of 160s on overheads (Paiste ride always sounds great with them), but switched to more open and less crunchy KM84s after a test with Shure donut shockmounts. I quite like the R84 as a mono overhead or on Silverfaces, but not on an amp in a live situation, because it's too thick up close, and picks up too much bleed backed off. I've been tempted to get a Royer, but in recordings it always sounds hard to mix, like it needs a compliment SM57 or condenser for the bite, unlike the M160, which sounds good by itself, has crazy rejection, and mixes easily as long as you don't put it close to the dust cap. I could be wrong about the Royer. Also, I'm afraid the Royer would pick up too much bleed recording live. Not sure it would if right on the grill with high signal to rear noise, any thoughts? I'm also tempted to get an M130 for M/S recording. Ahh your pushing my buttons now. These are 2 things on my "list" m160's and a Friedman. Don't over look the M260, buy a used one send it to Stephen Sank, and probably the cheapest way to enter the world of classic RCA Ribbon sound.
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Post by forgotteng on Mar 29, 2017 11:10:12 GMT -6
Dirty Shirley 40 watter, fucking incredible and versatile. The mini is cool too. Amp before mics. M160s are classic, but for me they are almost utility mics for the rejection, and calming cymbals. I like a lot of other mics well on guitar cabs, like E22, RE15, U87, M88 as long as you find the sweet spot on cone. Yea I was looking at the runt 20 but it seems all of them rage in the right way. I have a fender super and a little VHT 5 watt that are cool. But I finally figured out that I was working too hard to get certain sounds out of them. Then I heard the friedman and someone brought in a marshall and it was either a light bulb moment or a 2x4 moment where I said, Why are you fighting?
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Post by joseph on Mar 29, 2017 11:47:21 GMT -6
Dirty Shirley 40 watter, fucking incredible and versatile. The mini is cool too. Amp before mics. M160s are classic, but for me they are almost utility mics for the rejection, and calming cymbals. I like a lot of other mics well on guitar cabs, like E22, RE15, U87, M88 as long as you find the sweet spot on cone. Yea I was looking at the runt 20 but it seems all of them rage in the right way. I have a fender super and a little VHT 5 watt that are cool. But I finally figured out that I was working too hard to get certain sounds out of them. Then I heard the friedman and someone brought in a marshall and it was either a light bulb moment or a 2x4 moment where I said, Why are you fighting? To me, the DS sounds looser, more 70s, and the Runt tighter, more 80s. But yeah, you need that sound. It's pretty fun.
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Post by Ward on Mar 29, 2017 12:26:49 GMT -6
Ahh your pushing my buttons now. These are 2 things on my "list" m160's and a Friedman. But before you pull the trigger on the Friedman, check out ALL the latest models as Dave has really outdone himself... and for the love of decibels, don't forget about George's AMAZING Metroplex!
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 29, 2017 13:36:24 GMT -6
Surprised no one is talking about the Samars.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Mar 29, 2017 14:31:40 GMT -6
Micing a shrill / bright guitar amp that has a bright guitar like a tele being ran thru it I also like blending with sm57 on guitar reamping... Use an output to feed a reamp di and that hits the head and you Mike the cab with 1/2/3 mics more than 3 can get phasey... ( think I got the signal flow right its been a couple years since reamping di's hands on )
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Post by Ward on Mar 30, 2017 6:39:27 GMT -6
Surprised no one is talking about the Samars. I have.
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 30, 2017 7:25:38 GMT -6
Surprised no one is talking about the Samars. I have. Doh! Indeed.
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 30, 2017 7:26:38 GMT -6
BTW, I was comparing the VL37 to the Stager mics last night. Man, that Samar is special.
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 30, 2017 9:34:18 GMT -6
Surprised no one is talking about the Samars. I have. Speaking of, what preamp are you running your Samar into? Thinking of trying to get the noise floor down a bit, and maybe picking up an AEA ribbon pre. You have any issues with 60 cycle hum? I'm noticing the Samar has this hum (EM interference?) compared to the other ribbons.
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Post by topshelfmg on Mar 31, 2017 0:19:20 GMT -6
For me, it all depends on the ribbon. Like many, I love a 121 or 122 in front of a guitar amp (121 if its a brighter amp, 122 if it is a darker amp), but I would almost never reach for it on vocals. My AEA N22 on the other hand is regularly winning shootouts versus my other microphones, including nice tube condensers, on female lead vocals, especially if they are belting. The N22 is kind of a brilliant mix between a condenser and a ribbon for the fact that it picks up more high frequencies compared to other ribbons. The Royer SF-12 is one of the best drum overhead microphones / acoustic instrument microphones I have ever used as well, since it is extremely natural sounding. I love darn near any ribbon I own on horns/brass though, and it is just a matter of picking the right ribbon for the source (i.e. darker ribbon for brighter soprano sax or trumpet, or brighter ribbon for darker horns like a baritone sax or trumbone. Tenor sax can be either or a lot of the time). For me, in order, I would say guitar amps / cabs, horns/brass, acoustic instruments, vocals.
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