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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2017 16:57:48 GMT -6
Which is which? Definitely a difference...but I don't think either is bad at all.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-761067382/sets/gefell-m300-vs-neumann-km84
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Post by wiz on Feb 20, 2017 17:07:16 GMT -6
"I like the way sparkling earrings lay....." 8)
Both sound cool.... A sounds Brighter, bit like new strings... B darker.... like older strings...
Playing is great..I started singing, couldnt help it....8)
If I had to guess... B is 84
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Ward on Feb 20, 2017 17:12:01 GMT -6
They both do that Neumann SDC 'spring' with compression in the high mids and top end though. A is brighter, as an M300 usually is. But they're clearly siblings.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2017 17:50:58 GMT -6
So what do you guys consider "brite"? Like what frequency range? I hear A as being more muscle-y in the lower mids and B having more of a sheen on top - and that's kinda what I would consider brite...
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Post by matt on Feb 20, 2017 18:16:15 GMT -6
I prefer B. More body to my ears through the home theater speakers. Maybe slightly scooped in the upper mids with a nice amount of presence? Hmm. Both are good though
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Post by Ward on Feb 20, 2017 18:30:51 GMT -6
I prefer B. More body to my ears through the home theater speakers. Maybe slightly scooped in the upper mids with a nice amount of presence? Hmm. Both are good though I tend to agree with that.
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Post by popmann on Feb 20, 2017 18:53:54 GMT -6
I only see one clip labeled "a"....but, the first half is WAY....WAY....WAY better. Obviously to my ears....
The second one could be anything. Got an Sm81 around? Bet it isn't far off. Nothing WRONG with the second half....like it's "bad"--it's just.....fist half sounded like an acoustic guitar being played....the second sounded like a EQ'd acoustic guitar RECORDING.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2017 19:01:00 GMT -6
Let it play all the way through. Then Clip B starts. Or click on the link and you will see both A & B. Both A & B are the same take, so I'm not sure why you would think the slow part and the fast part sound drastically different - they're the same mic.
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Post by Calvin on Feb 20, 2017 19:04:53 GMT -6
I only see one clip labeled "a"....but, the first half is WAY....WAY....WAY better. Obviously to my ears.... The second one could be anything. Got an Sm81 around? Bet it isn't far off. Nothing WRONG with the second half....like it's "bad"--it's just.....fist half sounded like an acoustic guitar being played....the second sounded like a EQ'd acoustic guitar RECORDING. If you let the "A" version play through, the "B" version will cycle through. As for my listen, I'm guessing B is the 84. Just sounds familiar. A sounds real good, too, but not quite like what I expect an 84 to sound like. A bit more "modern," perhaps (I hate trying to describe what I hear - I'm no good at it).
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2017 19:10:33 GMT -6
I prefer B. More body to my ears through the home theater speakers. Maybe slightly scooped in the upper mids with a nice amount of presence? Hmm. Both are good though Seems like B is more scooped in the 800-2kHz range to me, but definitely brighter on the very top 8kHz-ish and up. I tend to think of "body" as lower mids like 200-800Hz I think of "brite" as 5kHz and up Not saying that's right, just how I've always interpreted it.
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Post by popmann on Feb 20, 2017 19:14:22 GMT -6
Let it play all the way through. Then Clip B starts. Or click on the link and you will see both A & B. Both A & B are the same take, so I'm not sure why you would think the slow part and the fast part sound drastically different - they're the same mic. Gotcha....yeah, now, I listened all the way through--man, the first half of A sounds so nice. B sounds more even all the way through--never as nice as the softer part of A....but, B sounds fine(good) on the softer part and "better than A" when you're hitting harder. IMO.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 20, 2017 19:20:24 GMT -6
Wow, these are closer than I thought they'd be. B sounds a tad scooped in the 500-1khz region, I think. I prefer B. It seems like there's a push in that region on A, and almost clouds it up and makes B feel more clear and present.
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Post by wiz on Feb 20, 2017 19:26:30 GMT -6
I love reading how we all interpret these... I really do...
I hear them as being significantly different....8) Isn't it funny? 8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2017 19:31:40 GMT -6
Depends on how you define "significantly"
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2017 19:34:18 GMT -6
Wow, these are closer than I thought they'd be. B sounds a tad scooped in the 500-1khz region, I think. I prefer B. It seems like there's a push in that region on A, and almost clouds it up and makes B feel more clear and present. While they're different, it's not like one is terrible and the other is drastically better. It was the reason I sold my other KM84...
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 20, 2017 20:25:58 GMT -6
Never used either, so can't tell you which is which, but I'll take A. Sounds more natural.
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Post by matt on Feb 20, 2017 21:21:40 GMT -6
I prefer B. More body to my ears through the home theater speakers. Maybe slightly scooped in the upper mids with a nice amount of presence? Hmm. Both are good though Seems like B is more scooped in the 800-2kHz range to me, but definitely brighter on the very top 8kHz-ish and up. I tend to think of "body" as lower mids like 200-800Hz I think of "brite" as 5kHz and up Not saying that's right, just how I've always interpreted it. Yes, agreed. A is flat(er) sounding to me, maybe with a little tilt toward 2K and up. More neutral than B. I would probably add some EQ to A to make it sound B-ish. I guess that A is the 84, and if so, that's why so many like it. Nothing but the facts, Ma'am
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 20, 2017 23:12:05 GMT -6
Damn. After listening more, maybe I do like A better. Does seem richer to me.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2017 23:26:18 GMT -6
The MP3's and the Soundcloud is making these warble a little...
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2017 23:29:20 GMT -6
A - KM84 B - Gefell M300
I do think the KM84 is more natural and a little less toppy...Not sure it's quite as "pretty" right off the bat, but like Matt said, it's just kind've the truth. I would probably say I like it a little better. But there isn't anything wrong with the Gefell. I've got some de-cidin' to do...
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Post by ragan on Feb 20, 2017 23:46:04 GMT -6
I was gonna post that I prefer A, but suspected that B was the KM84 but then there's the answer right above me ^^^^
Either way, I like A the best here.
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Post by rowmat on Feb 21, 2017 0:38:37 GMT -6
It's ironic after almost 50 years since its release that the KM84 is still pretty much the defacto benchmark for SDC's in a studio environment.
Schoeps etc may often be the SDC's of choice for live classical recordings but it doesn't appear the shine has yet worn off the KM84 even in 2017.
Some Gefells and maybe the Soyuz seem to be amongst the few SDC's that give the KM84 a run for its money.
I got my first 84 (actually a KMS84i) over 25 years ago for the princely sum of $30 AUD courtesy of an astute friend who found it buried in a box with a bunch of old cassette recorders in a second hand junk shop.
It took me about a year before I first used it and I couldn't believe how good it was on acoustic instruments.
25 years later I now have four KM84's and they are in constant use.
I would rate the KM84 as an exceptionally honest microphone.
With correct placement and a good preamp it seems to act like a conduit through to the instrument without screwing with anything.
It just manages to sound pretty much 'right' on most things and hardly ever wrong.
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Post by Ward on Feb 21, 2017 7:34:40 GMT -6
Funny... even though I still prefer the sound of A (the KM84), I can see B (M300) more easy to manage in a mix.
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Post by drsax on Feb 21, 2017 8:21:23 GMT -6
I would take "A" for sure. Natural, full and balanced. Lacking nothing to me. "B" is nice but feels a bit hollow and a touch bright
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on Feb 21, 2017 8:42:18 GMT -6
A - KM84 B - Gefell M300 I do think the KM84 is more natural and a little less toppy...Not sure it's quite as "pretty" right off the bat, but like Matt said, it's just kind've the truth. I would probably say I like it a little better. But there isn't anything wrong with the Gefell. I've got some de-cidin' to do... Different guitar and I think opinions would be different.
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