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Post by stormymondays on Feb 19, 2017 17:47:09 GMT -6
I'm thinking of getting some kind of hardware SSL style stereo compressor. If you only have one, how do you decide whether to use it on the drum bus or the mix bus? I can't really see myself printing the drum buss with compression early on, so I can use the hardware in the mix bus. And if I do it later in the mix, it's going to mess up the balances. How do you make the decision? (No, I can't get two!!!)  |
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Post by schmalzy on Feb 19, 2017 18:10:58 GMT -6
I have one SSL-style compressor.
Almost always on the mix bus.
If I hear it isn't right for the mix bus, I'll move it. It typically does something I really like to the entire mix so I use it there.
It's also easier for me to just use an analog master bus than anything else, but there's nothing REALLY stopping me other than the sound. I feel like I can get what I need from plugins on the drum bus better than getting what I want on the mix bus from plugins. Does that sentence make sense to anyone? I'm not convinced I'm Englishing right now.
Which compressor are you looking at?
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 19, 2017 22:53:11 GMT -6
I'm thinking of getting some kind of hardware SSL style stereo compressor. If you only have one, how do you decide whether to use it on the drum bus or the mix bus? I can't really see myself printing the drum buss with compression early on, so I can use the hardware in the mix bus. And if I do it later in the mix, it's going to mess up the balances. How do you make the decision? (No, I can't get two!!!) Thats a fun question to me because I think about to sell my SSL 4000 G compressor. The reason is the plug in by Slate and the more modern variation of it by Cytomic the Glue. Is there a diffrence, yes but its minor. You can hear that all three canidates are very smilar. Save yourself some cash and try the plug ins first. There are good chances you will love the Slate interpretation of the SSL stile mixbus compressor. |
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Post by stormymondays on Feb 20, 2017 3:49:05 GMT -6
It's also easier for me to just use an analog master bus than anything else, but there's nothing REALLY stopping me other than the sound. I feel like I can get what I need from plugins on the drum bus better than getting what I want on the mix bus from plugins. Does that sentence make sense to anyone? I'm not convinced I'm Englishing right now. Which compressor are you looking at? I get you! I'm looking at the STAM SA-4000 (but I hate to wait!), the TK-Audio BC1-S (which maybe I could demo), and there's a guy in the UK that builds the clone for a good price as well. Save yourself some cash and try the plug ins first. There are good chances you will love the Slate interpretation of the SSL stile mixbus compressor. I have the Slate bus comp, and I use it, but the way I work, I think having the hardware in front of me all the time would get me better results. How's the Cytomic compared to the Slate? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 3:59:44 GMT -6
Seen a couple of gyraf's on ebay for around the £400 mark.
I got lucky and scored a Roll Music 755, but was looking at the Stam (glad I didn't buy one then as his prices have dropped!!)
Could you use something like cytotomic to "hold" the drum buss compression near where you want it, then do the final print through the HW?
I've got cytotomic and tried slate. They both compress. What I can't get them to do is "add" something nice as well but could just be the way I use them.
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Post by svart on Feb 20, 2017 4:06:36 GMT -6
Seen a couple of gyraf's on ebay for around the £400 mark. I got lucky and scored a Roll Music 755, but was looking at the Stam (glad I didn't buy one then as his prices have dropped!!) Could you use something like cytotomic to "hold" the drum buss compression near where you want it, then do the final print through the HW? I've got cytotomic and tried slate. They both compress. What I can't get them to do is "add" something nice as well but could just be the way I use them. I wouldn't say that they "add" something as much as the "change" something. They tend to round out the envelope of the audio signal, and tend to give a pleasing pumping effect to the audio if you get the settings "just right". I've found that the effect happens more if you set the attack and release to fast-ish settings and hit around 3-6dB GR. You'll also want to mix into the compressor, rather than apply it after you've mixed. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 5:18:53 GMT -6
Seen a couple of gyraf's on ebay for around the £400 mark. I got lucky and scored a Roll Music 755, but was looking at the Stam (glad I didn't buy one then as his prices have dropped!!) Could you use something like cytotomic to "hold" the drum buss compression near where you want it, then do the final print through the HW? I've got cytotomic and tried slate. They both compress. What I can't get them to do is "add" something nice as well but could just be the way I use them. I wouldn't say that they "add" something as much as the "change" something. They tend to round out the envelope of the audio signal, and tend to give a pleasing pumping effect to the audio if you get the settings "just right". I've found that the effect happens more if you set the attack and release to fast-ish settings and hit around 3-6dB GR. You'll also want to mix into the compressor, rather than apply it after you've mixed. I think getting the settings just right is what I've not managed with plugins but I'm sure that's user error. . By adding I meant more punch, more sparkle, more open, more life in general. The 755 is really good, but even my Pro Vla seems to have a sweet spot on a mix that I've not found with plugs. Do you think using a plug to shape a mix, then substituting and printing through hardware at the end is viable for the use stormymondays is wondering about. I was thinking of mixing this way in future as I've got a few compressors but limited in / outs? |
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 20, 2017 6:28:28 GMT -6
Save yourself some cash and try the plug ins first. There are good chances you will love the Slate interpretation of the SSL stile mixbus compressor. I have the Slate bus comp, and I use it, but the way I work, I think having the hardware in front of me all the time would get me better results. How's the Cytomic compared to the Slate? Just a few thoughts. To my ears the SSL Bus compression is something very specific and is not used all the time on my 2 bus. If it works it works best, to my ears, with medium tempo Rock Music. In the meantime I prefer the Software over the hardware. The software gives me HPF (Detector) as well as a parallel compression mix knob. These features make the SSL compressor a total different tool - to me. The Cytomic the Glue is based on the more modern Take by SSL on it. Try yourself - cytomic.com/glueI much prefer the Slate interpretation. Sometimes I wish I could switch off the transformer simulation Steven put into the output. |
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Post by swurveman on Feb 20, 2017 8:19:23 GMT -6
I have a Smart C2. Always on the mix bus. It is a very even compressor tone wise. I also like that it has a sidechain option, which I use, and the option for it to be dual mono or stereo.
I use an API 2500 for drums, mostly in parallel.
If I only had one two channel compressor, it would be the Smart, not the API.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 20, 2017 9:49:46 GMT -6
Has anyone used Chameleon Labs' SSL style bus compressor? I was curious about them. The Stam stuff looks great, but it seems that everyone is always waiting.
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Post by drbill on Feb 20, 2017 10:20:18 GMT -6
The best bang for the buck SSL comp right now - along with best features - is no doubt the Serpent 4001. Extra attack and release times, parallel processing, side chain, etc.. Plugins can't touch it. Not even close. Stam was good to drop his price. The Serpent wasn't much more when considering shipping a couple of months ago. Thought about the Stam, but I will instead buy a second 4001.
KILLER on Drum Bus, and Mix Bus, even on stuff like vocals. The parallel processing works awesome.
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Post by rocinante on Feb 20, 2017 13:41:58 GMT -6
I second the Serpent bus comp. I use a fully loaded gssl comp on the mix bus and another on the drum bus. If i had to do it over I'd get the serpent kit. The Cham labs is alright but my gssl types are better imo. There's better options than the 7720 including the Stam.
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Post by stormymondays on Feb 20, 2017 14:02:23 GMT -6
I'm getting the TK-Audio BC1-S to try out for a week. It's got HPF and parallel compression, and the price is right here in Europe...
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Post by bartacusad on Feb 20, 2017 14:21:48 GMT -6
I'm thinking of getting some kind of hardware SSL style stereo compressor. If you only have one, how do you decide whether to use it on the drum bus or the mix bus? I can't really see myself printing the drum buss with compression early on, so I can use the hardware in the mix bus. And if I do it later in the mix, it's going to mess up the balances. How do you make the decision? (No, I can't get two!!!) The only SSL hardware compressor that made any sense for me to buy was the Wes Audio Dione. Its got a great feature set and sounds better than any plugin AND its total recall. I tried all the usual suspect plugins and they all collapsed my mix. They got me really close but sometimes 5-10% better can be the difference between a mix that pops and one that doesn't. It also can really depend on the kind of music you mix. |
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Post by svart on Feb 20, 2017 21:20:28 GMT -6
I wouldn't say that they "add" something as much as the "change" something. They tend to round out the envelope of the audio signal, and tend to give a pleasing pumping effect to the audio if you get the settings "just right". I've found that the effect happens more if you set the attack and release to fast-ish settings and hit around 3-6dB GR. You'll also want to mix into the compressor, rather than apply it after you've mixed. I think getting the settings just right is what I've not managed with plugins but I'm sure that's user error. . By adding I meant more punch, more sparkle, more open, more life in general. The 755 is really good, but even my Pro Vla seems to have a sweet spot on a mix that I've not found with plugs. Do you think using a plug to shape a mix, then substituting and printing through hardware at the end is viable for the use stormymondays is wondering about. I was thinking of mixing this way in future as I've got a few compressors but limited in / outs? I don't think the compressor adds these things. It rather allows you to dial these things into a mix, without fear. It seems that most of the pros that use them tend to use them in a certain range of attack/release/threshold, and then push the mix elements into the compressor. That's what I've noticed, and started doing, and I'd definitely say the results are more on par with expectations. One thing about the SSL is that you don't need to be gentle with it. The effect of the compression is what you're after, not the compression itself. Exaggerate the settings and you'll hear what it does. |
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Post by ariel on Feb 23, 2017 3:53:37 GMT -6
I also want to suggest the Wes Audio DIONE , That compressor is excellent. I sold My SSL Bus comp to buy this one as it has total recall via a plug in and far better features. To answer you I would use the SSL on the mix Bus and then something for the drum Bus like the 500 series DBX units which are pretty cheap.
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Post by stormymondays on Feb 24, 2017 15:32:29 GMT -6
So I got the TK-Audio BC1-S and it's here to stay! It does exactly what I was hoping it would do. I compared it to Slate's VCC Grey, with the same settings, and they definitely don't sound the same.
I had an almost finished mix where I had mixed into the VCC Grey. As expected, the mix falls apart if you take out the compressor. However, I was able to actually improve the mix simply by strapping the hardware unit in the mix bus. They both compress, but the hardware also does some extra magic. Or maybe it's the extra modelled transformer in the Slate that I don't like.
I tried quite a few settings on the hardware unit and tried to match them with the VCC. For me, there's no contest. I actually learned more about bus compression in 30 minutes with the hardware than I could ever learn using a plugin. Crazy!
Since I want the hardware to live on the mix bus, I had to come up with a solution for the drum bus. I created some hardware settings, tried to match them with the Slate, and while it was better than no comp, it didn't knock me out. Now, the big surprise... I tried the Console 1 compressor (SSL 4000 channel) and I was able to improve (to my ears) what the Slate was doing. It seemed a bit cleaner, and I managed to improve the sound of the drums without overly color them. Really happy about that!
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