|
Post by indiehouse on Dec 29, 2017 16:06:20 GMT -6
Hey indiehouse, you already have my next level dream gear! I like to imagine having the Symphony, monitors like the Amphions or ATC's, a Bricasti and a great mic or two to go with them! Currently I have the Apollo 8 and run through the Stam SA73 preamp, I had to sell all my absolutely non-essential gear this year. How do you like the Symphony? When people compare the Apollo to the Symphony they often say the Symphony's better, but not by very much. To me, that's like our mic search, the difference might be all the difference if it gets you to work the way you like. As to hearing a mic in a better room, I was reminded of the time I went to meet Jeremy Gillespie to listen to some mics in the wonderful Barbershop Studios in New Jersey. They have an SSL9000 and a great room too, as well as an entire rack filled with vintage Neve preamps! I may be wrong, but the results from soundboards set to use +4 db instead of -10 db always seems to be stronger. The number may be simply a reference point, but I don't think I'm wrong about there being some difference in the final result. When I did a shootout between my old Blackspade UM-17R and the Lauten Atlantis at Fab Dupont's Flux studios through his restored vintage Neve console, it was perfectly obvious the Blackspade was the better mic. So the room definitely helped. Yesterday, I went back and listened to a track I did with a bunch of mics to compare, and listened again to the Delphos and then the REDD. It was clear the Delphos was punching above its weight class and the REDD was a better mic, but it made me think that one of the problems when critically testing mics is our own voices. The Delphos was picking up me, and the REDD was too, so they're inherently the same on many levels. Of course if we're the vocalist, that's what we do, but it occurred to me that may not be a completely fair test at the same time. I think the room is a huge component of the 'signal chain'. Far more important than the difference in conversion. As far as the Symphony goes, I came from an Apollo 16 mkII with the upgraded DA, and if I'm being totally honest, the difference wasn't huge. The Symphony workflow is a total buzz kill compared to Console. I'm almost tempted to switch back for that alone.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Dec 29, 2017 16:13:39 GMT -6
So any kind of translation is good...haha. I certainly know the sound of something speaking across whatever layers of abstraction. To me it's something you keep coming back to, something drawing you in over and over...
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 29, 2017 18:36:10 GMT -6
Thanks for mentioning this indiehouse, "The Symphony workflow is a total buzz kill compared to Console. I'm almost tempted to switch back for that alone". I'm going to just enjoy the Apollo for a while as I try to get back on track after a dismal 2017.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Dec 29, 2017 21:03:24 GMT -6
I’m curious what monitoring systems and rooms many folks are trying these mics in. In my previous studio, there was a lot of nice gear that I didn’t care for - but it turns out it was a result of a flawed listening environment. In my current studio, with much better acoustics, better monitors, and better conversion, it’s SO much easier to make decisions about what sounds good and what doesn’t. Night and day. I’ve seen on the other site, many novices who are trying the REDD mic and other gear in poor rooms, on cheap gear, and they end up ripping quality gear when it’s quite possible the problem isn’t the gear. I doubt that is the case with most cats here, it seems most here have pretty well thought out setups - for me it was eye opening to be in a good room with good conversion and speakers. Took a lot of guesswork away. The REDD continues to impress here. What a Mic!!! UA Apollo Quad Silverface, Event 20/20 speakers. I also have a pair of M-Audio AV40s. Cheap, but if it sounds balanced on them it usually translates other places. I also like to check stuff after the fact in my car and on my surround sound in my living room. If it sounds good all of those places I'm usually good. I have a nice pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 cans that I check things on too. I used to have a Presonus Monitor Station, but it killed the high end of my signal. I had learned to work around it a bit, but I finally removed it and was shocked at the top end I was missing. My room is ok. Definitely not an acoustic masterpiece. lol I find my room is a little dull sounding. I always feel like there is a little more low end and a fuller quality when I'm in better rooms than when I do work in my room. I don't know how much else I could do with this room without overhauling the whole place. The other issue is I record and mix in the same room, which can be tricky. I think I've learned my room though, so I can do a decent recording and mix here.
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Dec 29, 2017 22:03:31 GMT -6
I’m curious what monitoring systems and rooms many folks are trying these mics in. In my previous studio, there was a lot of nice gear that I didn’t care for - but it turns out it was a result of a flawed listening environment. In my current studio, with much better acoustics, better monitors, and better conversion, it’s SO much easier to make decisions about what sounds good and what doesn’t. Night and day. I’ve seen on the other site, many novices who are trying the REDD mic and other gear in poor rooms, on cheap gear, and they end up ripping quality gear when it’s quite possible the problem isn’t the gear. I doubt that is the case with most cats here, it seems most here have pretty well thought out setups - for me it was eye opening to be in a good room with good conversion and speakers. Took a lot of guesswork away. The REDD continues to impress here. What a Mic!!! UA Apollo Quad Silverface, Event 20/20 speakers. I also have a pair of M-Audio AV40s. Cheap, but if it sounds balanced on them it usually translates other places. I also like to check stuff after the fact in my car and on my surround sound in my living room. If it sounds good all of those places I'm usually good. I have a nice pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 cans that I check things on too. I used to have a Presonus Monitor Station, but it killed the high end of my signal. I had learned to work around it a bit, but I finally removed it and was shocked at the top end I was missing. My room is ok. Definitely not an acoustic masterpiece. lol I find my room is a little dull sounding. I always feel like there is a little more low end and a fuller quality when I'm in better rooms than when I do work in my room. I don't know how much else I could do with this room without overhauling the whole place. The other issue is I record and mix in the same room, which can be tricky. I think I've learned my room though, so I can do a decent recording and mix here. agreed about the Presonus monitor station. The day I got rid of it it was like a veil was lifted off the Sound. Using a Dangerous Monitor STnow and very pleased with it.
|
|
|
Post by brewer on Dec 29, 2017 23:02:29 GMT -6
So, I've been putting up different mics from my locker up against the Chandler while I've got it in for a demo. Today I put up my Roswell Delphos. Holy moses. I was truly surprised at how close it came. Like, really really close. It got even better when I ran it through a Great River EQ-2NV with a lift at 15khz then into a Zulu with negative bias and a click or two of enhance. Also, I'm using a Tab-Funkenwerk V72S tube pre with the Delphos. Granted, I'm not belting out anything (I'm no singer), but I've been testing the Chandler against several mics, most of which I already own (MKU67, Upton 251, 3U GZ47FET V), and it's by far the only mic that's come even remotely close to the Chandler 'sound'. Now, I realize that I haven't stress tested the capsule pinching out under loud sources, but man, I picked up the Delphos for $360. Do I hear a $4140 difference? So far, it's a resounding no. No I do not. Now I suppose if I were producing major label acts I might be inclined to be more critical of any differences, but I'm not playing in that league. To be clear, I'm not disparaging the Chandler in any way. It's a classy mic in every way. I have the Chandler Redd 47 pre, and was considering the Delphos mic for while now. Your post is good news! What are your thoughts on a delphos/Redd 47 pre combo?
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 29, 2017 23:16:51 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum brewer.
I had the Dizengoff D4 for a long time. It's a REDD 47 style preamp too. I had the Delphos here for a week to try, but didn't have the D4 anymore. But my guess is that combo might be a little bright. The REDD 47 pre has a very lively sound, crisp and articulate, I found the Delphos a little dirty in a cool way. I imagine Mick Jagger, or John Waite, would sound good using it.
I used the Delphos and the Chandler REDD mic though my Stam SA73, and the Delphos was holding it's own beautifully, although the REDD broke away in the home stretch, and wins by quite a few lengths. The Delphos is in the U87 zone as far as general tone, and REDD 47 preamps obviously mate well with Neumann mics, but I'd still guess that in the Roswell's case the clarity of the REDD47 might reveal the shortcomings of a Delphos more than a Neve style pre might. Just a guess though..
I'd look at the Warm or Stam U47/U67 style mics if I had the Chandler REDD 47 pre. They're in the same general price range and would probably take a hard hit better than the Delphos does. My best guess at a good match, the U67 clones.
Don't get me wrong though, the Delphos is a real mic, no crazy capsule sizzle or edgy highs.
|
|
|
Post by brewer on Dec 30, 2017 0:49:53 GMT -6
Thanks MJB for the helpful information. I'd love to hear a shootout between the stam47/warm47/ GoldenAge47 as I'm considering those as well.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2017 8:30:09 GMT -6
I’m curious what monitoring systems and rooms many folks are trying these mics in. In my previous studio, there was a lot of nice gear that I didn’t care for - but it turns out it was a result of a flawed listening environment. In my current studio, with much better acoustics, better monitors, and better conversion, it’s SO much easier to make decisions about what sounds good and what doesn’t. Night and day. I’ve seen on the other site, many novices who are trying the REDD mic and other gear in poor rooms, on cheap gear, and they end up ripping quality gear when it’s quite possible the problem isn’t the gear. I doubt that is the case with most cats here, it seems most here have pretty well thought out setups - for me it was eye opening to be in a good room with good conversion and speakers. Took a lot of guesswork away. The REDD continues to impress here. What a Mic!!! Totally agree. You can’t judge what you can’t hear...and with lesser monitors and DA, you can sometimes hear stuff that isn’t really there.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2017 8:32:15 GMT -6
Thanks MJB for the helpful information. I'd love to hear a shootout between the stam47/warm47/ GoldenAge47 as I'm considering those as well. There’s a Golden Age 47?
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2017 8:40:01 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 30, 2017 9:09:52 GMT -6
brewer said, "Thanks MJB for the helpful information. I'd love to hear a shootout between the stam47/warm47/ GoldenAge47 as I'm considering those as well".
A Warm 47 is on the way for me to try. I'll let you guys know when I get it and have a little time with it. I will definitely wait to check the Stam 47 out as well, but it may be a while before I can get one here.
My best guess before I try them both is they'll be very very good, and sound a little different. I'm not a studio owner and look for a mic that matches my vocal sound best. Factors like availability and easy access to stores that carry gear aren't as crucial for me. That's why I had the lovely Blackspade UM-17R for a long time, it didn't matter much they were in Switzerland and I sent it back and forth a few times for tweaking.
More than likely, I'll end up with a Stam 67 style mic, because I'm most compatible with 67 style capsules, and it's a good bet Stam will get really close to that sound.
|
|
|
Post by john on Jan 8, 2018 9:47:09 GMT -6
yeah more in the ballpark. I am referring to the whole "mic is the pre/pre is the mic" conundrum. makes it a bit harder to straight away compare. of course, in any event, satisfaction with the sound and the take is all good. I used my Redd all day tracking drums. I am hearing the fatness that my 4038 always gave with the added presence on top that the 4038 never could give. I feel I am hearing the best of both worlds. So far, so great. Can we hear Yeah ill pluck a loop out. Im thinking some of the raw mic, then through curvebender and zener and then with a sip of bricasti. kinda show the progression its doing for me.
|
|
|
Post by donr on Jan 8, 2018 12:06:22 GMT -6
Wow, the cosmetics are impeccable.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 8, 2018 13:07:28 GMT -6
Just got the Warm WA47 here for a week or two. I did a track for a friend with it, and he got a fantastic vocal performance. I haven't tracked or compared it with anything myself yet, but I'll follow up on a different thread I'll try to put up a quick youtube video for the REDD in a week or two.
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jan 8, 2018 13:10:47 GMT -6
Wow, the cosmetics are impeccable. No kidding! That's very interesting and priced pretty on par with Stam's 47, after forking over a hundo for shipping. That bright orange mic cable though...gawdy. I am hesitant to be a beta tester for GAP stuff, though. It's just too associated with cheap chinese knock-off's in my mind. I get that they're trying to reinvent a high end line of products. And good on them for keeping the prices reasonable.
|
|
|
Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jan 8, 2018 14:42:13 GMT -6
Wow, the cosmetics are impeccable. No kidding! That's very interesting and priced pretty on par with Stam's 47, after forking over a hundo for shipping. That bright orange mic cable though...gawdy. I am hesitant to be a beta tester for GAP stuff, though. It's just too associated with cheap chinese knock-off's in my mind. I get that they're trying to reinvent a high end line of products. And good on them for keeping the prices reasonable. Cosmetically it looks great, but the capsule doesn't look convincing to me. It looks to be of Chinese origin. With the stam you know what you are getting.
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jan 8, 2018 15:31:33 GMT -6
No kidding! That's very interesting and priced pretty on par with Stam's 47, after forking over a hundo for shipping. That bright orange mic cable though...gawdy. I am hesitant to be a beta tester for GAP stuff, though. It's just too associated with cheap chinese knock-off's in my mind. I get that they're trying to reinvent a high end line of products. And good on them for keeping the prices reasonable. Cosmetically it looks great, but the capsule doesn't look convincing to me. It looks to be of Chinese origin. With the stam you know what you are getting. Yeah, that's where I'm at, too. However, if you were to pick this up at second-hand pricing, it'd make a killer platform to mod with an upgraded capsule/transformer. I'm toying with the idea of building a top shelf 47, but man, FLEA wants over a grand for their body/headbasket alone. Urgh.
|
|
|
Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jan 8, 2018 15:58:22 GMT -6
Cosmetically it looks great, but the capsule doesn't look convincing to me. It looks to be of Chinese origin. With the stam you know what you are getting. Yeah, that's where I'm at, too. However, if you were to pick this up at second-hand pricing, it'd make a killer platform to mod with an upgraded capsule/transformer. I'm toying with the idea of building a top shelf 47, but man, FLEA wants over a grand for their body/headbasket alone. Urgh. Yeah that just what i was thinking too. The AMI body is a bit better priced from what I remember. I have a Ef12 build going ahead but am just using the body that Stam and everyone else is using. I'm sure in a few years the GA body will also become available too.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jan 8, 2018 16:04:19 GMT -6
Just got the Warm WA47 here for a week or two. I did a track for a friend with it, and he got a fantastic vocal performance. I haven't tracked or compared it with anything myself yet, but I'll follow up on a different thread I'll try to put up a quick youtube video for the REDD in a week or two. Nice. I have one showing up to check out soon too.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 8, 2018 17:36:56 GMT -6
Cool, let's share notes the we get some time with it Ragan.
That Golden Age mic looks classy, but when I think on modding mics, I feel like we have to be careful not to try catching the wind. I tried four different variations of a very good $2,300 mic, long distance shipping, parts changed, capsules changes, transformers changed, and it still didn't sound like I wanted. More and more, I think it's wise to buy what sounds right in the first place, with the exception of the iO Audio Max Mod 67 kit, and even then, tubes and capsules can vary.
That's why I love the Chandler REDD. It is what it is. Want something else, that's cool, but the REDD's perfectly itself, and undeniably pro. I should have a Stam SA67 sometime in late February. Now that's something I'm excited about because I'm most compatible with K67 style capsules, and if the SA73 is any indication, it's gonna be really good.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Jan 8, 2018 18:15:37 GMT -6
Cool, let's share notes the we get some time with it Ragan. That Golden Age mic looks classy, but when I think on modding mics, I feel like we have to be careful not to try catching the wind. I tried four different variations of a very good $2,300 mic, long distance shipping, parts changed, capsules changes, transformers changed, and it still didn't sound like I wanted. More and more, I think it's wise to buy what sounds right in the first place, with the exception of the iO Audio Max Mod 67 kit, and even then, tubes and capsules can vary. That's why I love the Chandler REDD. It is what it is. Want something else, that's cool, but the REDD's perfectly itself, and undeniably pro. I should have a Stam SA67 sometime in late February. Now that's something I'm excited about because I'm most compatible with K67 style capsules, and if the SA73 is any indication, it's gonna be really good. Let me know when you have the SA67. Very cool.
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Jan 8, 2018 18:50:05 GMT -6
Yeah, that's where I'm at, too. However, if you were to pick this up at second-hand pricing, it'd make a killer platform to mod with an upgraded capsule/transformer. I'm toying with the idea of building a top shelf 47, but man, FLEA wants over a grand for their body/headbasket alone. Urgh. Yeah that just what i was thinking too. The AMI body is a bit better priced from what I remember. I have a Ef12 build going ahead but am just using the body that Stam and everyone else is using. I'm sure in a few years the GA body will also become available too. Which body is that?
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Jan 8, 2018 18:57:45 GMT -6
. I should have a Stam SA67 sometime in late February October. Fixed it for you
|
|
|
Post by winetree on Jan 8, 2018 19:01:50 GMT -6
|
|