ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Dec 25, 2017 16:52:45 GMT -6
John, But then later you came to like it? Was that after the capsule tweak? BTW, and maybe it's been talked about already, but was the Shannon work done on Dallas's capsule or was it a different capsule? I decided to put a custom capsule in. I think I had one of the first prototypes, so from what understand they’re pretty amazing now. I’m over the moon about mine with Shannon ‘s capsule in it. In your room big lowend would be a problem!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 25, 2017 20:54:22 GMT -6
I rushed this song demo out to meet the Christmas deadline! The Chandler REDD is on the lead vocal and acoustic rhythm guitar. It comes across as kind of sibilant, but that's not what it sounded like before mastering. I think I pushed the vocal too hot, but it really was a first mix, and I had no time to tweak. Still, it's a Chandler REDD thread, and I thought you guys might enjoy hearing a sample..
That's M57 on the piano!
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/a-champagne-christmas-1
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Post by Mister Chase on Dec 28, 2017 13:33:59 GMT -6
I rushed this song demo out to meet the Christmas deadline! The Chandler REDD is on the lead vocal and acoustic rhythm guitar. It comes across as kind of sibilant, but that's not what it sounded like before mastering. I think I pushed the vocal too hot, but it really was a first mix, and I had no time to tweak. Still, it's a Chandler REDD thread, and I thought you guys might enjoy hearing a sample.. That's M57 on the piano! https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/a-champagne-christmas-1Great work!
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Post by Guitar on Dec 28, 2017 13:41:09 GMT -6
Yeah, @martin John Butler, that sounds really good! I agree a little bright on the voice mixing, but the whole mix sounds big and expensive, overall
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2017 14:21:40 GMT -6
So, I've been putting up different mics from my locker up against the Chandler while I've got it in for a demo. Today I put up my Roswell Delphos. Holy moses. I was truly surprised at how close it came. Like, really really close. It got even better when I ran it through a Great River EQ-2NV with a lift at 15khz then into a Zulu with negative bias and a click or two of enhance. Also, I'm using a Tab-Funkenwerk V72S tube pre with the Delphos. Granted, I'm not belting out anything (I'm no singer), but I've been testing the Chandler against several mics, most of which I already own (MKU67, Upton 251, 3U GZ47FET V), and it's by far the only mic that's come even remotely close to the Chandler 'sound'. Now, I realize that I haven't stress tested the capsule pinching out under loud sources, but man, I picked up the Delphos for $360. Do I hear a $4140 difference? So far, it's a resounding no. No I do not.
Now I suppose if I were producing major label acts I might be inclined to be more critical of any differences, but I'm not playing in that league. To be clear, I'm not disparaging the Chandler in any way. It's a classy mic in every way.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2017 14:43:58 GMT -6
I do think the Chandler is the more expensive sounding mic. It's a smoother sound, for sure.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 28, 2017 15:20:48 GMT -6
Funny, before indeihouse posted, I posted this in another thread:
"I look for the "X" factor. Some things just have a vibe. I recently tried the Roswell Delphos, and the Chandler REDD mics, and they both had vibe like crazy. The Delphos didn't have an obvious flaw like most U87 style mics with Chinese parts typically do, so if it was a good fit, you could confidently do a album with it, and not feel like you made a mistake years later. The Chandler was vibe city, whether it's to your taste or not is of course important, but there was no doubt it was a monster in its own right".
Although I think they sound quite different, the similarity to me between the REDD and the Delphos is the lack of a fatal flaw. I mean that in a very complimentary way. Almost every mic I've tried in the last five years had one, including some that have super high end parts and cost $2,400. My take on the Delphos was it could be a great Rock mic, very suitable to a vocalist like John Waite or Steve Marriot, but with my voice, the Delphos couldn't handle it when hit really hard, the REDD handled the hardest hit beautifully, much smoother the the Delphos. Also, the Drive circuit gives you a lot of tonal options with the REDD.
Until I hear the Stam 47 and 67, and the Warm 47 and 67 for myself, I'd call the Delphos the best bargain mic around today. It's not super cheap like an MXL mic, but it's an honest deal because it really works well. The $249 Guage USA mic I had a couple of years ago was very similar in sound to the Delphos though, so anyone who might want to save money and mod a mic could do well to look at that.
Calculating the money difference matters from one perspective, but for me, the difference between the REDD and a Delphos was everything. The nuance and forgiving tone, the size and the pickup pattern all combined to make me sing better. The Delphos did a fantastic job, and that was unexpected, but it didn't elevate me to the level I aspire to. My benchmarks are Lyle Lovette's vocal sound on "Road to Ensenada", some of Chris Isaak's sound, some of Bryan Ferry's sound. I've heard tone I like on some of Dierks Bentley's tracks too.
*first time I ever quoted myself ;-) ha!
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2017 19:29:05 GMT -6
I'm gonna walk back some of my initial thoughts after more comparisons. The REDD is smoother than the Delphos AND the REDD takes EQ WAAY better than the Delphos. I'm finding a little Pultec 60hz cut and a little air works really well on the REDD, especially if getting in a little closer to cut down on room tone.
Without question, the REDD is the better mic. But major props to the Delphos for hanging as much as it does against the Chandler heavyweight.
I still feel the REDD can be a little crispy up top.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 28, 2017 19:32:48 GMT -6
It's probably wiser of me to invest that $4k+ in my room, rather than a mic at this point.
I am super tempted by the Stam 47/67, too.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 28, 2017 21:29:10 GMT -6
indeishouse said, "I am super tempted by the Stam 47/67, too".
Definitely can't wait to give these a try, if one fits me well, that'll solve a lot of issues for me. I have confidence they'll be contenders, Stam's done some really good things already.
Indiehouse, don't give up on finding a great mic that works for you. I wish I could treat my room too, but I can't. That said, to me, the mic choice is the single most important thing of all. You can use all sorts of preamps and interfaces, be in a good room or a rom that's not so good, but a great mic will shine through all of it. That's why I used to love my vintage U87, it just worked, anywhere. My tastes have evolved since then, so I'd like a tube mic that's I can afford that's as versatile.
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Post by drsax on Dec 28, 2017 21:56:30 GMT -6
I’m curious what monitoring systems and rooms many folks are trying these mics in. In my previous studio, there was a lot of nice gear that I didn’t care for - but it turns out it was a result of a flawed listening environment. In my current studio, with much better acoustics, better monitors, and better conversion, it’s SO much easier to make decisions about what sounds good and what doesn’t. Night and day. I’ve seen on the other site, many novices who are trying the REDD mic and other gear in poor rooms, on cheap gear, and they end up ripping quality gear when it’s quite possible the problem isn’t the gear. I doubt that is the case with most cats here, it seems most here have pretty well thought out setups - for me it was eye opening to be in a good room with good conversion and speakers. Took a lot of guesswork away. The REDD continues to impress here. What a Mic!!!
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Post by john on Dec 28, 2017 23:52:22 GMT -6
honestly if you are looking to compare the mic to others make sure that the other is plugged into a red 47 preamp. otherwise your comparison isn't really comparing much.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 29, 2017 0:07:58 GMT -6
honestly if you are looking to compare the mic to others make sure that the other is plugged into a red 47 preamp. otherwise your comparison isn't really comparing much. mmmmmaybe..... or any other old single ended tube preamp.
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Post by john on Dec 29, 2017 1:25:17 GMT -6
honestly if you are looking to compare the mic to others make sure that the other is plugged into a red 47 preamp. otherwise your comparison isn't really comparing much. mmmmmaybe..... or any other old single ended tube preamp. yeah more in the ballpark. I am referring to the whole "mic is the pre/pre is the mic" conundrum. makes it a bit harder to straight away compare. of course, in any event, satisfaction with the sound and the take is all good. I used my Redd all day tracking drums. I am hearing the fatness that my 4038 always gave with the added presence on top that the 4038 never could give. I feel I am hearing the best of both worlds. So far, so great.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 29, 2017 3:02:19 GMT -6
honestly if you are looking to compare the mic to others make sure that the other is plugged into a red 47 preamp. otherwise your comparison isn't really comparing much. Right, I'm using my Tab-Funkenwerk V72S pre.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 29, 2017 3:04:55 GMT -6
mmmmmaybe..... or any other old single ended tube preamp. yeah more in the ballpark. I am referring to the whole "mic is the pre/pre is the mic" conundrum. makes it a bit harder to straight away compare. of course, in any event, satisfaction with the sound and the take is all good. I used my Redd all day tracking drums. I am hearing the fatness that my 4038 always gave with the added presence on top that the 4038 never could give. I feel I am hearing the best of both worlds. So far, so great. I can totally hear that the Chandler would be a killer drum mic. Have you used it for vocal work yet?
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 29, 2017 6:41:41 GMT -6
So, I've been putting up different mics from my locker up against the Chandler while I've got it in for a demo. Today I put up my Roswell Delphos. Holy moses. I was truly surprised at how close it came. Like, really really close. It got even better when I ran it through a Great River EQ-2NV with a lift at 15khz then into a Zulu with negative bias and a click or two of enhance. Also, I'm using a Tab-Funkenwerk V72S tube pre with the Delphos. I haven't tried the Delphos, but I have tried the REDD and I own the Tab Funkenwerk V78M, which is kind of their discount version of the V72; similar sound, but you can back the gain stage down a bit. I gotta say, that preamp can impart some major mojo onto a mic signal. I especially love it when I want to beef up my U87ai. I don't know how it compares to the REDD 47 though.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 29, 2017 7:19:36 GMT -6
I’m curious what monitoring systems and rooms many folks are trying these mics in. In my previous studio, there was a lot of nice gear that I didn’t care for - but it turns out it was a result of a flawed listening environment. In my current studio, with much better acoustics, better monitors, and better conversion, it’s SO much easier to make decisions about what sounds good and what doesn’t. Night and day. I’ve seen on the other site, many novices who are trying the REDD mic and other gear in poor rooms, on cheap gear, and they end up ripping quality gear when it’s quite possible the problem isn’t the gear. I doubt that is the case with most cats here, it seems most here have pretty well thought out setups - for me it was eye opening to be in a good room with good conversion and speakers. Took a lot of guesswork away. The REDD continues to impress here. What a Mic!!! I'm running a hybrid setup with a healthy dose of outboard, Symphony 16 mkII and Amphion monitors. My room is fairly well treated with OC703/705 panels, but it still sounds small and boxy and the REDD picks that up exceptionally well. I've created a OC703/705 alcove of sorts to further create a dead space to track, with the option to add room ambiance later with my Bricasti. Still, the REDD is so detailed, I still get a bit of boxy resonance. I can get up closer on other mics, but the Chandler does like a little distance. I can imagine in a decent room where you can back off the mic a bit, this mic would just shine. To be clear, I really, really think it's an exceptional mic. It's just my gut is telling me room is more important than mic, especially a mic of this caliber that can pick up room sound.
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 29, 2017 8:15:34 GMT -6
Quick update on my REDD video: it is nearly ready. I've kind of put videos on hold. In the beginning of the summer YouTube decided to change their monetization requirements. I was about 1500 views under the 10k requiment. They shut my monitezation off in October. I hit 10k views earlier this month and my account has been under review since. Just waiting for the mometization to be turned back on before posting it. It also didn't help that I had gigs every weekend from the first weekend in Sept till the week before Christmas. Although, that really wasn't a bad thing either.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 29, 2017 9:38:31 GMT -6
Hey indiehouse, you already have my next level dream gear! I like to imagine having the Symphony, monitors like the Amphions or ATC's, a Bricasti and a great mic or two to go with them! Currently I have the Apollo 8 and run through the Stam SA73 preamp, I had to sell all my absolutely non-essential gear this year. How do you like the Symphony? When people compare the Apollo to the Symphony they often say the Symphony's better, but not by very much. To me, that's like our mic search, the difference might be all the difference if it gets you to work the way you like.
As to hearing a mic in a better room, I was reminded of the time I went to meet Jeremy Gillespie to listen to some mics in the wonderful Barbershop Studios in New Jersey. They have an SSL9000 and a great room too, as well as an entire rack filled with vintage Neve preamps! I may be wrong, but the results from soundboards set to use +4 db instead of -10 db always seems to be stronger. The number may be simply a reference point, but I don't think I'm wrong about there being some difference in the final result.
When I did a shootout between my old Blackspade UM-17R and the Lauten Atlantis at Fab Dupont's Flux studios through his restored vintage Neve console, it was perfectly obvious the Blackspade was the better mic. So the room definitely helped.
Yesterday, I went back and listened to a track I did with a bunch of mics to compare, and listened again to the Delphos and then the REDD. It was clear the Delphos was punching above its weight class and the REDD was a better mic, but it made me think that one of the problems when critically testing mics is our own voices. The Delphos was picking up me, and the REDD was too, so they're inherently the same on many levels. Of course if we're the vocalist, that's what we do, but it occurred to me that may not be a completely fair test at the same time.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 29, 2017 11:47:28 GMT -6
So, I've been putting up different mics from my locker up against the Chandler while I've got it in for a demo. Today I put up my Roswell Delphos. Holy moses. I was truly surprised at how close it came. Like, really really close. It got even better when I ran it through a Great River EQ-2NV with a lift at 15khz then into a Zulu with negative bias and a click or two of enhance. Also, I'm using a Tab-Funkenwerk V72S tube pre with the Delphos. I haven't tried the Delphos, but I have tried the REDD and I own the Tab Funkenwerk V78M, which is kind of their discount version of the V72; similar sound, but you can back the gain stage down a bit. I gotta say, that preamp can impart some major mojo onto a mic signal. I especially love it when I want to beef up my U87ai. I don't know how it compares to the REDD 47 though. No doubt the built in pre in the Redd is a major part of its overall sound. Run a U87ai through an API pre with a slightly pokey female vox and it will likely be unpleasant. Same mic through something like a V72 or similar and it's often a completely different story.
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Post by Mister Chase on Dec 29, 2017 12:19:39 GMT -6
mmmmmaybe..... or any other old single ended tube preamp. yeah more in the ballpark. I am referring to the whole "mic is the pre/pre is the mic" conundrum. makes it a bit harder to straight away compare. of course, in any event, satisfaction with the sound and the take is all good. I used my Redd all day tracking drums. I am hearing the fatness that my 4038 always gave with the added presence on top that the 4038 never could give. I feel I am hearing the best of both worlds. So far, so great. Can we hear
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Post by drsax on Dec 29, 2017 13:22:29 GMT -6
I’m curious what monitoring systems and rooms many folks are trying these mics in. In my previous studio, there was a lot of nice gear that I didn’t care for - but it turns out it was a result of a flawed listening environment. In my current studio, with much better acoustics, better monitors, and better conversion, it’s SO much easier to make decisions about what sounds good and what doesn’t. Night and day. I’ve seen on the other site, many novices who are trying the REDD mic and other gear in poor rooms, on cheap gear, and they end up ripping quality gear when it’s quite possible the problem isn’t the gear. I doubt that is the case with most cats here, it seems most here have pretty well thought out setups - for me it was eye opening to be in a good room with good conversion and speakers. Took a lot of guesswork away. The REDD continues to impress here. What a Mic!!! I'm running a hybrid setup with a healthy dose of outboard, Symphony 16 mkII and Amphion monitors. My room is fairly well treated with OC703/705 panels, but it still sounds small and boxy and the REDD picks that up exceptionally well. I've created a OC703/705 alcove of sorts to further create a dead space to track, with the option to add room ambiance later with my Bricasti. Still, the REDD is so detailed, I still get a bit of boxy resonance. I can get up closer on other mics, but the Chandler does like a little distance. I can imagine in a decent room where you can back off the mic a bit, this mic would just shine. To be clear, I really, really think it's an exceptional mic. It's just my gut is telling me room is more important than mic, especially a mic of this caliber that can pick up room sound. Nice setup man. Yeah - I spent a bit of time tuning my rooms when I built my current studio. Nothing too fancy - for me, the biggest difference was getting some good quality bass absorption in the corners and dealing with ceiling reflections. That was the best money I spent in my studio for sure. Made such a big difference.
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 29, 2017 14:02:07 GMT -6
I’m curious what monitoring systems and rooms many folks are trying these mics in. In my previous studio, there was a lot of nice gear that I didn’t care for - but it turns out it was a result of a flawed listening environment. In my current studio, with much better acoustics, better monitors, and better conversion, it’s SO much easier to make decisions about what sounds good and what doesn’t. Night and day. I’ve seen on the other site, many novices who are trying the REDD mic and other gear in poor rooms, on cheap gear, and they end up ripping quality gear when it’s quite possible the problem isn’t the gear. I doubt that is the case with most cats here, it seems most here have pretty well thought out setups - for me it was eye opening to be in a good room with good conversion and speakers. Took a lot of guesswork away. The REDD continues to impress here. What a Mic!!! I'm the complete opposite to this approach. I do have a great room with excellent monitoring and great converters, but it's the gear that makes my mixes sound better and great and translates on my little Sony beat box monitors, ear puds and car speakers that really impresses me and grabs me. First time I recorded my vocals with my Wunder CM7 I was blown away by the sound of my voice when listening in the car, on cheap ear buds, on my various grot boxes I thought sh*t this mic is incredible what a stunning translation - same experience with my BAE1073 and Retro STA Level. I don't want mic and processors to only sound great on great monitors - it has to translate on real world monitoring where it will spend 99.9% of it's listening life. But that's just me maybe :-)
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Post by drsax on Dec 29, 2017 16:02:17 GMT -6
I’m curious what monitoring systems and rooms many folks are trying these mics in. In my previous studio, there was a lot of nice gear that I didn’t care for - but it turns out it was a result of a flawed listening environment. In my current studio, with much better acoustics, better monitors, and better conversion, it’s SO much easier to make decisions about what sounds good and what doesn’t. Night and day. I’ve seen on the other site, many novices who are trying the REDD mic and other gear in poor rooms, on cheap gear, and they end up ripping quality gear when it’s quite possible the problem isn’t the gear. I doubt that is the case with most cats here, it seems most here have pretty well thought out setups - for me it was eye opening to be in a good room with good conversion and speakers. Took a lot of guesswork away. The REDD continues to impress here. What a Mic!!! I'm the complete opposite to this approach. I do have a great room with excellent monitoring and great converters, but it's the gear that makes my mixes sound better and great and translates on my little Sony beat box monitors, ear puds and car speakers that really impresses me and grabs me. First time I recorded my vocals with my Wunder CM7 I was blown away by the sound of my voice when listening in the car, on cheap ear buds, on my various grot boxes I thought sh*t this mic is incredible what a stunning translation - same experience with my BAE1073 and Retro STA Level. I don't want mic and processors to only sound great on great monitors - it has to translate on real world monitoring where it will spend 99.9% of it's listening life. But that's just me maybe :-) I totally agree about real world translation. A better room and setup helps there bigtime. And ultimately, you hit the nail in the head - The real world translation is the most important part
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