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wa-414
Apr 16, 2017 8:41:40 GMT -6
Post by Guitar on Apr 16, 2017 8:41:40 GMT -6
Gee wiz, every time (you) Dave open(s)(your) his mouth it just really makes me want to buy his (your) microphones, preamps and all of his (your) other wares. It is always an eye opening, mind enhancing, educational experience and one that I am sure would make my using your tools a pleasure to use for all the right reasons. Add that to everywhere I seem to turn heavyweight professionals in the industry are singing your stuff's praises as well as making fine art with your humanistic pricing. Your open transparency in regard to your process is refreshing in the world of close fisted tight lipped manufacturers. Thanks for the future memories, and as soon as I can loosen up some superfluous moolah will be happily passing it over your way. And now back to our regularly schedueled programming. +1. Thanks for articulating my thoughts. Same here. This is why I love audio forums. Pure gold.
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wa-414
Apr 16, 2017 16:15:29 GMT -6
EmRR likes this
Post by johneppstein on Apr 16, 2017 16:15:29 GMT -6
The build quality is better than the DYNA Mark IV which used a pair of 6550 tubes. In the late 60's we use to take the DYNA Mark IV and put a Hi Z preamp in it so it could be used as a bass amp. aamicrophones.com Er, nope, you're incorrect. The Dyna MKIV was 1/2 of the better known Stereo 70 (35 w/ch), with slightly more power per channel due to not sharing a power supply. It used two 6CA7/EL34 tubes for 40 watts. The amp you're thinking of is probably the Dyna MKIII, which produced 60 watts from as pair of 6550/KT88 power tubes. It was an update of the MKII, which was essentially the same amp using two EL34s for 50 watts. All of these amps were the basis for the original (before the Model T) Sunn tube amps, which all use Dyna power amp circuits and most, if not all used Dyna transformers. (The early ones said "Dynaco" on the transformers, the last ones didn't but were otherwise identical.) The very first Sunns, such as those owned by The Kingsmen, had actual Dyna chassis inside with outboard preamps. Dyna also had a MKVI, which I have never seen in person, with 120 watts mono out of 4 KT88s. I believe this is also the transformer set used by Sunn in their 120 watt tube amps.
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 4:16:20 GMT -6
Post by jampa on Jul 27, 2017 4:16:20 GMT -6
Looks like it's starting to appear in stock around places
HoboRec created a quick comparison against some AKGs
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 17:42:31 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 27, 2017 17:42:31 GMT -6
Nice, but kind of pointless as the 2 akg are more modern with the nylon cap ?
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Post by ragan on Jul 27, 2017 18:06:37 GMT -6
Haven't watched yet but are they not comparing to a brass capsule 414?
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 18:08:35 GMT -6
Post by jakeharris on Jul 27, 2017 18:08:35 GMT -6
The Warm has an edge terminated K67 (might be brass, but it's not a brass CK12)
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 27, 2017 18:12:45 GMT -6
Haven't watched yet but are they not comparing to a brass capsule 414? No, so as I said somewhat pointless other than the old saw of comparing the different types of 414's: you know darker to brighter.
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 18:15:03 GMT -6
m03 likes this
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 27, 2017 18:15:03 GMT -6
The Warm has an edge terminated K67 (might be brass, but it's not a brass CK12) Warm begs to differ "All-brass Capsule Created By Warm The LK12-B-60v is an all-brass, edge-terminated capsule that captures all the smoothness, rich top end, and other sonic qualities of the original CK-12 capsule. Using the backplate of the more modern CEK-12 variant as a basis, this capsule overcomes many of the manufacturing limitations of the original hand-made capsule which made it prohibitively complex and difficult to manufacture consistently or in high numbers. The o-ring and housing are all made from brass (no teflon parts), and our capsule diaphragm is 24k gold sputtered and skinned using 6 micron, NOS Japanese PET film (mylar). The end result is a very consistent, reliable capsule which matches the frequency response and tonality of the classic. "
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Post by ragan on Jul 27, 2017 18:19:39 GMT -6
Yeah we went through all this with T. Campbell (I think in this very thread). It's not simply a K67 but not an exact CK12.
What it should 'properly' be considered depends on who you ask.
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 18:22:58 GMT -6
Post by jakeharris on Jul 27, 2017 18:22:58 GMT -6
kcatthedog : Sorry, not sure how they differ: "... this capsule overcomes many of the manufacturing limitations of the original hand-made capsule which made it prohibitively complex and difficult to manufacture consistently or in high numbers." i.e. it's not a prohibitively complex multi-chambered CK12. And CEK-12 is a Peluso 'modern variant', nothing to do with AKG. Peluso uses K67 backplates. I know you're a big Warm fan, but it's impossible for a $499 mic to have a real CK12. They're much too expensive.
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 18:28:06 GMT -6
Post by jakeharris on Jul 27, 2017 18:28:06 GMT -6
Yeah we went through all this with T. Campbell (I think in this very thread). It's not simply a K67 but not an exact CK12. What it should 'properly' be considered depends on who you ask. Not at all. It's a Chinese CK12, and that's what everyone calls them (edge terminated K67's). This isn't ragging on Warm either. It's just extremely borderline marketing to start calling it a 'brass CK12'.
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 18:35:29 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 27, 2017 18:35:29 GMT -6
Jake, I was just trying to sort out the facts rather than opinions.
I am not aware of any one who has opened the new mike up and examined the capsule to confirm any of this are you ?
When you say a real C12 do you mean a recreation of one or an actual original c12 cap ?
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 18:39:11 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 27, 2017 18:39:11 GMT -6
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 18:48:07 GMT -6
Ward likes this
Post by jakeharris on Jul 27, 2017 18:48:07 GMT -6
Jake, I was just trying to sort out the facts rather than opinions. I am not aware of any one who has opened the new mike up and examined the capsule to confirm any of this are you ? When you say a real C12 do you mean a recreation of one or an actual original c12 cap ? Real CK12 = multi-chambered, AKG backplate design Chinese CK12's = no chambers, Neumann backplate design Not even close to being the same thing. Btw, there's a picture of the capsule on their site, in case you missed it.
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 19:05:09 GMT -6
Post by ragan on Jul 27, 2017 19:05:09 GMT -6
Jake, I was just trying to sort out the facts rather than opinions. I am not aware of any one who has opened the new mike up and examined the capsule to confirm any of this are you ? When you say a real C12 do you mean a recreation of one or an actual original c12 cap ? Real CK12 = multi-chambered, AKG backplate design Chinese CK12's = no chambers, Neumann backplate design Not even close to being the same thing. Btw, there's a picture of the capsule on their site, in case you missed it. Well you've got your mind made up and I'm admittedly not a capsule expert, though I do know a few of those and they have, convincingly, led me to believe there is a difference between pulling the center screw out of a K67 (essentially what you're alleging) and making a mass-producable edge terminated CK12 'style' (do with that what you want, semantically) capsule. I can tell you this capsule isn't the usual off the shelf OEM capsule you're probably imagining. I have good reason to believe it should be high quality.
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 19:21:22 GMT -6
Post by jakeharris on Jul 27, 2017 19:21:22 GMT -6
Real CK12 = multi-chambered, AKG backplate design Chinese CK12's = no chambers, Neumann backplate design Not even close to being the same thing. Btw, there's a picture of the capsule on their site, in case you missed it. Well you've got your mind made up and I'm admittedly not a capsule expert, though I do know a few of those and they have, convincingly, led me to believe there is a difference between pulling the center screw out of a K67 (essentially what you're alleging) and making a mass-producable edge terminated CK12 'style' (do with that what you want, semantically) capsule. I can tell you this capsule isn't the usual off the shelf OEM capsule you're probably imagining. I have good reason to believe it should be high quality. These capsules are the same you find in 3U mics, and are made by 3U. Nothing wrong with them, but they are what they are. Not really sure what you're arguing for or against though; either the capsule uses the AKG backplate design, or it doesn't. There isn't much leeway for debate.
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 19:26:48 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 27, 2017 19:26:48 GMT -6
no I saw the pic and apparently also no you haven't opened one up either I understand your point and the link I posted indicates there are plus 50 parts in the original c12. The difference for me is that I never expect a Warm product to be an exact recreation of a specific piece of gear. What I expect is a very good recreation of that piece of gear but made with some cost saving decisions also part of the design. So, personally I was pleased with the nod to brass as when I have heard comparisons of the different iterations of 414s, I preferred the sonics of the older mikes/caps. I was disappointed in the video as I would prefer to hear it ab'd to the older style of 414 to see how close to the sonic mark it is. When I was listening the wa87 vs 87 clips, I preferred the wa-87 and thought it performed very well , especially considering its price, bought 2 as workhorse mikes and I am very pleased with them and their value. I like 414s especially on acoustic guitar, so I do want to hear the wa-414 shot out vs older brass akg414s .
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 19:32:51 GMT -6
Post by hadaja on Jul 27, 2017 19:32:51 GMT -6
Solution found with a quick google image search
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Post by jakeharris on Jul 27, 2017 20:10:26 GMT -6
kcatthedog : when there's a picture of the capsule right there, why would anyone need to open one up? Otherwise no surprise; you prefer the sound of $2.5K 414EB's with original brass CK12's. Those are incredible mics, and they aren't going to be challenged by this Warm unit. Neither should they. Comes back to that same recurring discussion of why can't budget gear just be what it is – why does it have to match gear that's ten times more expensive, or challenge the status quo, or whatever else people come up with? I also find this mic and the WA87 to be of a MUCH higher value than that Roswell Delphos... Unbelievable that thing sells for $900, and even more unbelievable people are actually buying it. So just to be clear, I am a closet Warm fan. Their pricing is more than honest, and they don't take their clients for a ride (unlike that other example).
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 20:22:56 GMT -6
Post by ragan on Jul 27, 2017 20:22:56 GMT -6
Not really sure what you're arguing for or against though; To be honest, I'm not really either. I've got no dog in the fight and don't know enough about how far the hole pattern needs to be different before a purist will recognize that a CEK12 isn't the same thing as an edge terminated K67. And I don't care that much about it.
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 20:55:02 GMT -6
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 27, 2017 20:55:02 GMT -6
In that video, the AKG EB handles sibilance more naturally.
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wa-414
Jul 27, 2017 23:46:55 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 27, 2017 23:46:55 GMT -6
Waiting for the wa-67 tube mic 😂😂😂
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Post by Ward on Jul 28, 2017 5:07:55 GMT -6
In that video, the AKG EB handles sibilance more naturally. You wanna know what 'gold' is? An AKG C414EB with one of Tim Campbell's CT!2 capsules in it. All the high end clarity and air the very best C414 was known for but without the sibilance of a mass produced OEM off the shelf C12 styled capsule. I know they mean well, but I don't agree with what cloners are doing with the C414 and U87. It's watering down the coffee and muddying up those waters to begin with. Soon, nobody under 40 is going to know what a CK12 actually imparts to the sound of a ELA M251, C12, C12a, C12b, C412 or C414 microphone
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wa-414
Jul 28, 2017 7:06:42 GMT -6
Ward likes this
Post by jeremygillespie on Jul 28, 2017 7:06:42 GMT -6
In that video, the AKG EB handles sibilance more naturally. You wanna know what 'gold' is? An AKG C414EB with one of Tim Campbell's CT!2 capsules in it. All the high end clarity and air the very best C414 was known for but without the sibilance of a mass produced OEM off the shelf C12 styled capsule. I know they mean well, but I don't agree with what cloners are doing with the C414 and U87. It's watering down the coffee and muddying up those waters to begin with. Soon, nobody under 40 is going to know what a CK12 actually imparts to the sound of a ELA M251, C12, C12a, C12b, C412 or C414 microphone I think "soon" has come already unfortunately. I understand that everybody wants a classic mic, but just wish instead of copying designs, the manufacturers would either come up with their own design, or improve upon it. Sure, Jeff makes a "copy" of api stuff, and I own and use it on a daily basis, but to me its a vast improvement over anything you can get from API today. That's some badass innovative thinking. Taking a mic, making it sort of look the same with the body and grill, copping some of the components and shoving a lesser capsule inside... I don't get it.
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Post by ragan on Jul 28, 2017 8:17:09 GMT -6
Call me crazy but I just do not see the travesty in the fact that people can now get a quality tool at a reasonable price and I do not understand (actually I think I might) the dogmatic pushback against it.
I recently got a STA-Level. I've been comparing it to my vocal tracking compressor of choice, which has been the WA-2a. Yeah, I think I dig the STA-Level more, but the difference isn't anywhere near what the price difference would suggest. And you know what? The WA-2a still sounds really nice and I'm glad I've had it thus far, when I couldn't afford the big boutique piece.
And that's another thing, the vitriol against clones is always (and I mean ALWAYS) directed at the affordable ones. Retro? Chandler? Serpent? Mohog? Wonder? Flea? BAE? Heritage? Those guys all get a pass. Barrier to entry is still properly high I guess.
For my part, I'll keep being glad the marketplace works like it should and provides options. Just cause I've shelled out a lot of money for some nice gear doesn't make me think all the young and/or strapped engineers out there should be relegated to MXL 990s and Apex 460s.
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