|
Post by EmRR on Jan 5, 2017 17:15:24 GMT -6
Everyone thinks it's cute to laugh about this stuff but some of us take it very seriously. Your SSD is nothing without input transformers. And I have four of those very transformers in the classifieds.....
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,943
|
Post by ericn on Jan 5, 2017 17:16:18 GMT -6
Everyone thinks it's cute to laugh about this stuff but some of us take it very seriously. Your SSD is nothing without input transformers. You need to loose the bus power and use a high current regulated PSU😎
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 5, 2017 17:34:19 GMT -6
Those are the cleanest A-20s I've ever seen in my life!
|
|
|
Post by jazznoise on Jan 5, 2017 17:37:14 GMT -6
The hard drive will be even cleaner if you're not careful!
|
|
|
Post by joseph on Jan 5, 2017 18:05:39 GMT -6
The whir of hard drive adds glue.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 5, 2017 18:11:24 GMT -6
It's easy to laugh, but back in my audiophile days, I remember so many guys vehemently arguing, "it's all zeros and ones", and only a decade later, after new data was recognized, would they admit jitter was now an accepted factor in sound quality. So, there may or may not be something to the guy's claim, but I don't think making fun of it is really very wise.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jan 5, 2017 19:37:29 GMT -6
It's easy to laugh, but back in my audiophile days, I remember so many guys vehemently arguing, "it's all zeros and ones", and only a decade later, after new data was recognized, would they admit jitter was now an accepted factor in sound quality. So, there may or may not be something to the guy's claim, but I don't think making fun of it is really very wise. Analog jitter FTW!!
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 5, 2017 19:45:27 GMT -6
? Don't quite follow that ward :-)
The topic is does a solid state drive sound better than a hard disc drive, correct? I related the jitter story because guys at some audiophile sites made the creeps at Gearslutz seem nice. And when they were proven completely wrong about a subject, and after all sorts of truly nasty posts, not a one apologized or admitted his error. They couldn't wrap there heads around the concept that the timing of the zeros and ones mattered.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 5, 2017 20:19:47 GMT -6
Indeed the clock is good ol'analog. Incompetent design is the reason for the jitter.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Jan 5, 2017 22:35:15 GMT -6
It's easy to laugh, but back in my audiophile days, I remember so many guys vehemently arguing, "it's all zeros and ones", and only a decade later, after new data was recognized, would they admit jitter was now an accepted factor in sound quality. So, there may or may not be something to the guy's claim, but I don't think making fun of it is really very wise. I dont laugh about the person I do laugh about the question because the answer is just there. BTW on GS they talked about diffrent brands of HDD sounding diffrent, I remember I pulled out chips and fish a few beers and I had a lot of laughs for a long and slow meal..... Samsungs are bad and Wstern Digital sounded more accurate bla bla bla......
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 5, 2017 22:48:13 GMT -6
I mean we all know jcoutu1 cranks out quality and now I know why... It's not his skill, talent, chops, HW or SW it's his Samsung 850 evo SSD's... He was kind enough to let me in on the secret, the 850 Evo without the adapter cable has more robust analog circuitry. This creates a more vintage, Warm, colored, professional, radio ready mix. Record into the 850 Evo and mix back into the 850 evo to ensure that classic analog warmth you can't achieve ITB digitally. I can't wait to hear the analog depth and warmth added to my mixes... 😭🤣🤠
|
|
|
Post by donr on Jan 5, 2017 23:04:11 GMT -6
I discovered the secret of SSD's by accident, after being forced to use my 2014 MacBookPro as my DAW machine because my 2008 Mac Pro tower was mothballed until I sold my house in FL. I didn't know WHY then my productions sounded better, only that they did. I know now. I'm going to try putting the laptop on a couple of sandbags.
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Jan 5, 2017 23:19:32 GMT -6
Martin, The hard drive is irrelevant. Its not even apart of the story. Its being there helps with operation, storage and load speed of the pc yes, but has no connection to how the audio travels into one particular section of the computer. With jitter its an actual part of the audio conversion. You can swap the hard drive a bagillion times and (aslong as its not old and molding) there would be zero effect on whats going on in the audio conversion. The audio converters on board micro- computing (DSP) system does that. Its why we buy such nice expensive converters. They are doing all the work for the computer which is really just a host for the converters send and return.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 6, 2017 5:56:52 GMT -6
I mean we all know jcoutu1 cranks out quality and now I know why... It's not his skill, talent, chops, HW or SW it's his Samsung 850 evo SSD's... He was kind enough to let me in on the secret, the 850 Evo without the adapter cable has more robust analog circuitry. This creates a more vintage, Warm, colored, professional, radio ready mix. Record into the 850 Evo and mix back into the 850 evo to ensure that classic analog warmth you can't achieve ITB digitally. I can't wait to hear the analog depth and warmth added to my mixes... 😭🤣🤠 It's the EVO's that get my mixes sounding modern at DR 6-8. If you're into vintage sounds, stick to the 5400 spinning disks.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jan 6, 2017 7:27:05 GMT -6
It's easy to laugh, but back in my audiophile days, I remember so many guys vehemently arguing, "it's all zeros and ones", and only a decade later, after new data was recognized, would they admit jitter was now an accepted factor in sound quality. So, there may or may not be something to the guy's claim, but I don't think making fun of it is really very wise. Stored data has no jitter.. Computer HDD transfers happen in blocks, with checksums, so there is no jitter. Jitter problems only happen in transmission situations without checksums or error correction.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 6, 2017 8:37:24 GMT -6
Thanks Svart. I'm not super tech savvy. I was using jitter as an example, not saying it was a factor in this case. I wouldn't have a clue if there can be a difference in sound quality between HDD and SSD's. Is it possible?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 14:11:48 GMT -6
Thanks Svart. I'm not super tech savvy. I was using jitter as an example, not saying it was a factor in this case. I wouldn't have a clue if there can be a difference in sound quality between HDD and SSD's. Is it possible? Oh hell no, I work in the audio industry in various fields.. Generally software development, done quite a bit in telephony audio and if we can manage to get little to no jitter issues (none isn't unreasonable) via a medium that goes over several switches and routers via KM's of fibre then I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what HDD you use. VOIP (voice over IP) is rampant with issues as well, I mean one small configuration error in the path (like not setting RTP (Real-time transport) protocol in the correct QOS (Quality of service) level (Expedited Forwarding) via an LLQ (Low latency Queue (uses a bit bucket methodology).. Can introduce un-recoverable latency (for several reasons). Reason I mention it, as svart said issues can be with transmission methodology. In VOIP they do employ jitter buffers which offset and re-arrange the time stamps in the header to sync up packets as well as a sequence number. Unlike most audio interfaces most major PBX systems have full path and self diagnostic systems. So you can tell in real time the amount of jitter via a certain path, you'd kind of expect it from something that costs ten's of thousands to hundred's of thousands. They have that high end retro vibe with a touch of 64kbps audio finesse.. Also the other reason I mention it, I hope Ethernet ultimatley becomes the audio standard for pretty much everything.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 6, 2017 14:12:47 GMT -6
I'm told RFI spectra can vary by quite a bit between different drives.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Jan 9, 2017 13:04:22 GMT -6
I'm told RFI spectra can vary by quite a bit between different drives. ?? RFI
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 9, 2017 13:21:32 GMT -6
RFI from computers and analog audio don't get along. In an ideal world they would be totally isolated but in the real world not so much.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jan 9, 2017 15:18:48 GMT -6
Thanks Svart. I'm not super tech savvy. I was using jitter as an example, not saying it was a factor in this case. I wouldn't have a clue if there can be a difference in sound quality between HDD and SSD's. Is it possible? Honestly, no, not to any realistic amount. Most modern storage devices work to performance standards, which usually dictate maximum bit-error-rates, commonly in the PPM or PPB (parts-per-million/billion). Modern error handling and recovery is quite good and can generally correct most errors from reads on the fly. Transmission methods generally employ similar error correction, but would be held to much lower standards. If you downloaded a song 10 times, you'd technically have 10 slightly different copies, even with error handling/correction. It might turn out to be a single bit is wrong out of the whole song, but it wouldn't be anything that some jitter wouldn't mask anyway, LOL. I think if people knew the reality that there is no such thing as "perfect", that any time you transmit or read/write data you have small chances to lose data, and how much data is technically lost even in something like normal "ZIP" file compression, then folks would freak out.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jan 9, 2017 15:32:11 GMT -6
It was eye opening to compare on an M20 ADAT the optical, AES/EBU, and analog outputs. All 3 sounded frighteningly different. This test done in a well executed mastering room. Add external clock control, you get 6 audibly different sounds, though none 'wrong', you'd never know if you didn't compare.
I've been working on some 16 bit 48kHz ADAT recordings done in 1993, playing back through MOTU 16A and Monitor 8 with 32 bit float processing in the DAW. Sounds fine....
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 9, 2017 16:02:05 GMT -6
People endlessly ascribe magical digital "perfection" to the utterly analog aspects of digital audio.
|
|