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Post by popmann on Dec 30, 2016 14:41:52 GMT -6
I was given Logic for Christmas....I've not actually downloaded it yet, just reading the manual....and this one issue has prompted me to search and search, and I got very little:
Is there no way to carve up the mixer into subsets of channels that make sense to YOU? One of the primary reasons I went with the MCU for Cubase was the implementation of Mixer Views....which are now like "mixer configurations" or something--but, basically, the ability to say I want these 8 (or 16 when the extender was functioning) channels on my faders right now....hit the second button and I have the second grouping....there are 8 buttons on the controller. I never need all 8, but the app itself has unlimited views/configs.
I don't see anything in Logic except the ability to filter by type, which is only helpful for the one standard view I use which is "all Aux FX channels"....
Without the ability to carve the mixer up logically (ha)....fader controllers are mostly useless. I mean, does someone actually bank up and down a 60ch mixer?
I mean, I see people using the Environment mixer to customize--but, that's ONE view....like, you can set it up to show whatever you want in that ONE window....ONE set of faders/busses, etc. And then I think I might be able to handle SOME w/ "summing stacks"....but, is there really no way I can have a view of just drums that might be a few VI tracks along with 10 audio and a dedicated AuxFX? Or my "band" view will often contain bass that isn't summed ITB and audio for guitars and organ and maybe a VI for piano, etc....point being, it's not a grouping based on track/ch TYPE....that won't do it.
Lots of Logic users--do you really bank up/down around a 60ch virtual mixer? What am I missing?
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Post by 79sg on Dec 30, 2016 15:07:43 GMT -6
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Post by wiz on Dec 30, 2016 15:42:39 GMT -6
I was given Logic for Christmas....I've not actually downloaded it yet, just reading the manual....and this one issue has prompted me to search and search, and I got very little: Is there no way to carve up the mixer into subsets of channels that make sense to YOU? One of the primary reasons I went with the MCU for Cubase was the implementation of Mixer Views....which are now like "mixer configurations" or something--but, basically, the ability to say I want these 8 (or 16 when the extender was functioning) channels on my faders right now....hit the second button and I have the second grouping....there are 8 buttons on the controller. I never need all 8, but the app itself has unlimited views/configs. I don't see anything in Logic except the ability to filter by type, which is only helpful for the one standard view I use which is "all Aux FX channels".... Without the ability to carve the mixer up logically (ha)....fader controllers are mostly useless. I mean, does someone actually bank up and down a 60ch mixer? I mean, I see people using the Environment mixer to customize--but, that's ONE view....like, you can set it up to show whatever you want in that ONE window....ONE set of faders/busses, etc. And then I think I might be able to handle SOME w/ "summing stacks"....but, is there really no way I can have a view of just drums that might be a few VI tracks along with 10 audio and a dedicated AuxFX? Or my "band" view will often contain bass that isn't summed ITB and audio for guitars and organ and maybe a VI for piano, etc....point being, it's not a grouping based on track/ch TYPE....that won't do it. Lots of Logic users--do you really bank up/down around a 60ch virtual mixer? What am I missing? Well , I don't have those sorts of track counts..and I am not sure you are going to be able to do EXACTLY what you want... but here are a few things that might help. 1. you can HIDE tracks. Be they playing or not. I don't know if that will help with the controller thing, don't use one. If you have 16 tracks and Hide the first 8. Maybe the controller will see 9-16 straight away, worth trying. 2. When you move a track in the Edit window, the position of the track in the mixer follows....so , you could select 8 Tracks and drag them to the top of the Edit window and then the controller will see those. 3. You can put the 8 tracks you need to automate at any given time, by doing step 2. (this is what I would do.) 4. I agree with you, it would be a good function. 5. I don't think the "screen sets" function changes the track order.. but give it a try. cheers Wiz |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 30, 2016 16:44:49 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2016 17:33:52 GMT -6
wild !!!!
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Post by M57 on Dec 30, 2016 18:47:09 GMT -6
I have track counts in the 40s and I use the Behringer X-Touch. Yes, banging through 4 or 5 banks of 8 may not be the most efficient way to move around, but I always have one hand on a mouse too, and when I click on a track, either in the mixer or on the playing field, the X-Touch immediately queues up the bank that contains that track, and you would never want to look for it with the controller, right? With a mouse/trackball/trackpad I could have 100 tracks and slide to any track you want in an instant.
I use Hide as well, and I also use Folders, which really make things easy to organize. 10 Tracks of BVs, drums, or guitars? No problem, slap them in stacks (with separate volume/automation on the stack) or even a summing stack. It's probably not be the way you're use to working, but I'm guessing it might be a work-flow equivalent.
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Post by popmann on Dec 30, 2016 21:32:01 GMT -6
Yeah, I can tell you this is why it got scratched for mixing in v9. I've never suffered scrolling around a big mixer. For nearly 20 years of digital, I've been one button press away for being able to grab any given fader.
None of this matters for the beginning of the process. The doing a quick demo, which is really why I have it--to start playing with what they've done in the way of beat mapping and the new VIs and autodrummer and such...but, as I play with it, I'm keeping an eye out on how to best handle it as it progresses. I know I was going to hand myself mixing in Logic9. Scrolling around....I thought "I must be missing something"....they really want you to use the mouse and the whole "track and related channels" view....and I suppose I could get used to that, maybe....but, I'm so used to thinking "drums"--hit "Drums" button and they're on the faders....hit the "FX" button when I want to turn the vocal reverb down....maybe it's just a mental adjustment.
I don't even have the MCU plugged in....it's all still plugged up to the Cubase box. That's interesting that it chases the mouse. That's gotta kill the motors? Absolutely divorced in Cubase. I can mouse all around editing and moving and adjusting whatever--the mixer is what it is....stays where it stays...until you tell it to put something else on the faders.
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Post by M57 on Dec 31, 2016 5:10:48 GMT -6
God forbid you ever have to sit at one of them there big ass consoles and move your entire chair to get to the right fader.  |
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 31, 2016 8:25:48 GMT -6
popmannYou may cant click on them but you may like this feature even more tahn just clicking on them. You can get a very big session very clean and organized in Logic pro X Look here very well explained:
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Post by M57 on Dec 31, 2016 10:42:02 GMT -6
This is a 40-odd track song Condensed into Folders. Note that you can see the individual tracks in the folders.  I don't create a separate mix for tracking, so I find it handy to be able to grab a fader of the entire stack and bring it up down in the mix. You can even automate the stack volume (post fader and effect sends I'm pretty sure). With the stack closed. when you turn on the automation, you can actually see the individual automation lines for all of the tracks inside the stack The tracks condense on the mixer and the controller, so other than the BVs (the ninth track) on the above screen shot, everything all shows up on the first bank. One mouse-click and you're working where you need to work. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 31, 2016 10:46:22 GMT -6
People on UA forum were talking about the Brauer mixing technique of having dedicated sends to specific comps/ob built into your daw mixing templates for fast workflow. Working Logic sessions were posted: go nutsz !!! Brauerizing stock plugins.logicx.zip (240.98 KB) Brauerizing.logicx.zip (438.44 KB) p.s., happy new year prep !! |
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2016 12:49:36 GMT -6
God forbid you ever have to sit at one of them there big ass consoles and move your entire chair to get to the right fader. That's where I come from....and that IS the point. In the analog days, everything was right in front of you--at worst a small slide and reach. enter digital mixers. Terrible ergonomics, precisely because what was a reach was now some menus deep to get to an adjustment. The BEST ones were ones that carved up the mixer logically--here's a bank of all the aux and group busses....here's the input mixer button....here's track return 1-12 or 1-16....here's 13-24 or 17-32....and the concept coined but not invented by Presonus with the idea of the "fat channel"--having a single channel of the whole channel that simply adapted to and controlled a focus channel. The combo of these things, replaced the "slide" with an extra button press--the direct bank, channel select, adjust. This is how I've worked for nearly 20 years. I'm not looking for ways to keep a 60 track opus "clean looking", which is what those videos are doing. This is ALL about running everything with a mouse more efficiently. It's been obvious that was their goal for years. Single monitor of a laptop. No controllers. Weirdly, no touch other than Garageband on the iPad. As a side note, I hooked up the MCU last night, rebooted it in LogicControl mode....and started playing. Command+2 opens a mixer in a seperate window....and hitting it again opens a SECOND mixer window independent of the first (and yes--that keeps going). Focusing from one to the other puts the focused on on the faders (by default).....so, screen sets in combination with summing stacks in "single" view might ultimately be the rig that allows it.... But, this is about the controller. And history. I've got 25 years, other than a brief miserable time with a Roland machine where I was a few presses and a turn away from adjusting anything. I live with the VST channel window open so I touch a fader and it changes to that channel--where I can see the plug ins....sends....grab mouse in one hand and Griffin knob in other to manipulate....I'm not coming from software. Not coming from mixing with a mouse. I SEE they're constantly improving THAT workflow....because it NEEDED it....maybe this forces me to work that way. We'll see. |
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Post by M57 on Dec 31, 2016 12:58:30 GMT -6
I get it that you're looking for a very specific work-flow solution that is proven to work for you, but there are a number of different work-flow solutions that might be just as efficient. Looking at my screen-shot, with a mouse I can get to any track in about a second with two clicks - no scrolling necessary. I haven't tried it with my controller, but I don't see that it would be any different.
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2016 13:57:09 GMT -6
Yeah, I've just got to rethink the approach. Keeping the mixer on "single" and then using summing stacks and folders will mostly do what's needed. Except the "center section" view....which is effectively a per project logical grouping of channels, busses, mixdown files or rough mixes.....etc.....that, I think I would have to pull out the environment to get. Not something I'm probably willing to goof with much. It is nice when I'm down to 8 faders having:
Kick
Drums
Bass
Band
Strings
LdGtr
LdVocal
BVox
As a fader view for balance setting particularly during overdubbing when there's never a need for "less snare drum"....or "brighten the cello".....but, simply turn the strings up and drums down....
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Post by M57 on Dec 31, 2016 15:24:54 GMT -6
Yeah, I've just got to rethink the approach. Keeping the mixer on "single" and then using summing stacks and folders will mostly do what's needed. Except the "center section" view....which is effectively a per project logical grouping of channels, busses, mixdown files or rough mixes.....etc.....that, I think I would have to pull out the environment to get. Not something I'm probably willing to goof with much. It is nice when I'm down to 8 faders having: Kick Drums Bass Band Strings LdGtr LdVocal BVox As a fader view for balance setting particularly during overdubbing when there's never a need for "less snare drum"....or "brighten the cello".....but, simply turn the strings up and drums down.... The proof is in the pudding. There's only one way to find out if it works for you. I actually had to create a few extra folders in my project to make that example pic. In the past, I've only been using stacks when the count gets above 7 or 8 tracks. Efficiency hasn't been as important to me and I really don't mind scrolling through 30 or 40 tracks because I usually stay in one place for a good chunk of time, but I'm beginning to see that it's not a bad idea to organize with smaller stacks. I'm going to try working that way to see how much of a difference it makes. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 31, 2016 15:58:57 GMT -6
No time to read the whole thread just now. I'll come back, as it's an interesting question and the options people mentioned are interesting too. I like track stacks. I keep 6 piano tracks or 8 guitar tracks in a stack, once I get them close to where I want them. I really love automating the whole stack too.
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Post by wiz on Dec 31, 2016 17:23:03 GMT -6
So, the controller controls the folder tracks?
eg put all guitars in a folder track, and you can move its volume up and down?
Could you do this with vca,s? And hide all the other tracks?
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2016 18:19:01 GMT -6
Well, the answer is yes....but, you don't need a controller for that.
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Post by M57 on Dec 31, 2016 19:23:46 GMT -6
So, the controller controls the folder tracks? eg put all guitars in a folder track, and you can move its volume up and down? Here's a stack of BV's (probably 8-10 of 'em) that has its own volume automation. Note the automation of all of its tracks are displayed lightly in the background.  |
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Post by wiz on Dec 31, 2016 19:34:33 GMT -6
So, the controller controls the folder tracks? eg put all guitars in a folder track, and you can move its volume up and down? Here's a stack of BV's (probably 8-10 of 'em) that has its own volume automation. Note the automation of all of its tracks are displayed lightly in the background. Thanks for that....that looks like drawn in automation. With mouse? can you use a controller to do it? If you can... I might get one. cheers Wiz |
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Post by M57 on Dec 31, 2016 19:49:34 GMT -6
Yes, I prefer picking points with a mouse - not drawing - I like the perfectly linear rise and fall of the fader AND I can pinpoint where I want it to peak, etc. As to your second question, Sure - I've drawn curves using the faders on a Faderport and my current, the X-Touch.
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2016 20:20:46 GMT -6
I do the opposite--any automation is written with the fader controller....and subsequently EDITED with a mouse....because usually it's like if you imagine one vocal line with a rollercoaster ride (like pictured) I can select the whole "line's worth" of automation points and scale them up or down by an amount..... But, mostly, I don't automate a lot. It's like 15min of polish at the very end....it's my jam. Like if I build it right, I push the faders up and smile. Quickest way to sound bad with current DAW tech is to think you need to do more than you do--OR invest in the digital stuff at the expense of the transducers. Good transducers....88.2....I mean, I really can't sound bad unless I try. Now, I can PLAY and SING badly with much less effort.  |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 31, 2016 20:36:26 GMT -6
Popmann, it sounds like you just don't want to take the time to learn the workflow required to use LPX. So, maybe you should read up on how to use it as a VST for other DAWs and stick with your current DAW workflow? Here's some info on using Soundflower, the IAC bus, Logic and Cubase to pump sounds from Logic into Cubase: www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=56390 |
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2016 22:37:15 GMT -6
Wow, what's John's one rule?
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 31, 2016 23:16:01 GMT -6
I'm not being a dick/asshole. But all of your posts in this thread are basically "I can't do the workflow I've done for 25 years in logic".
So, if you just want to use the instruments that come with logic, why not just check out how to route midi from your DAW of choice into Logic and how to route audio from Logic into your DAW of choice? :-) Seems like it'll be the best way to keep the process of making music that you're used to/comfortable with and still be able to use Logic's built-in plugins/sounds.
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