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Post by swurveman on Dec 24, 2016 8:11:34 GMT -6
There's a free video every day starting tomorrow and lasting a week. MEMBERSHIP : $289 / YEAR Has anybody been a member? If so, was it worth the price to you?
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Post by bowie on Dec 24, 2016 12:48:26 GMT -6
Free video for paid members? Or, free, free?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 24, 2016 12:55:53 GMT -6
Not everyone knows how to teach, even if they know their craft. Shoeps was a big snooze at AES. Still, for free, I'd love to see what these webinars are like.
Thanks for the heads up swurveman.
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Post by swurveman on Dec 24, 2016 13:05:45 GMT -6
Free video for paid members? Or, free, free? I believe it's free free. A "sneak peak" for potential subscribers.
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Post by swurveman on Dec 25, 2016 9:18:59 GMT -6
Here's the first one, Chris Lorde-Alge mixing a Bryan Adams like song Nice and quick to be able to push buttons and faders rather than have to write with a mouse and push automation points up. Also, no worries of headroom (seemingly) with the console Chris Lord-Alge Automation
If anybody know what the DAW equivalent of "All Absolute" automation like he's using on the SSL I'd be interested in knowing. It seems to me that - if it works- the most feasible way to duplicate this amount of automation and not spend a fortune is the Slate Raven. Things like the SSL Nucleus and the Avid Artist Mix simply don't have enough faders. When he's automating FX, he's pulling down faders. All the 16 channel controllers would have you automate the sends, which is much more time intensive. Merry Christmas! mixwiththemasters.com/video/deconstructing-mix-1-part-7-0
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 25, 2016 11:10:39 GMT -6
That was interesting. Basically, he's using micro-dynamics to enhance the feel of the song. In a way, this speaks to the state of modern pop music. The mix becomes this perfect assemblage of parts, and Alge is the conductor. It's not as if mixes from different eras weren't attempting something similar, but when you put all the musicians in the same room playing together, it's a much more organic thing with a different energy. When musicians are on the spot, and have to get it right, or blow the take, the combined energy is different. Records done with the Wrecking Crew, or the Muscle Shoals session musicians are good examples. One or two takes, and you had to hit the bullseye, or you wouldn't get a call back.
I've been guilty of doing all I can do electronically to serve my songs too, but I hope to get back to five or six people in a room playing together for my next generation of recording. I'm bored with too slick, but I do appreciate the talent, the skill and the effort that takes.
The main takeaway here for me was the way Alge changed the reverbs and delays throughout. I've been too occupied with getting other things right, but I really have to get more familiar with automating more than just the instrument levels in Logic.
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Post by swurveman on Dec 25, 2016 11:31:48 GMT -6
That was interesting. Basically, he's using micro-dynamics to enhance the feel of the song. In a way, this speaks to the state of modern pop music. The mix becomes this perfect assemblage of parts, and Alge is the conductor. It's not as if mixes from different eras weren't attempting something similar, but when you put all the musicians in the same room playing together, it's a much more organic thing with a different energy. When musicians are on the spot, and have to get it right, or blow the take, the combined energy is different. Records done with the Wrecking Crew, or the Muscle Shoals session musicians are good examples. One or two takes, and you had to hit the bullseye, or you wouldn't get a call back. I've been guilty of doing all I can do electronically to serve my songs too, but I hope to get back to five or six people in a room playing together for my next generation of recording. I'm bored with too slick, but I do appreciate the talent, the skill and the effort that takes. The main takeaway here for me was the way Alge changed the reverbs and delays throughout. I've been too occupied with getting other things right, but I really have to get more familiar with automating more than just the instrument levels in Logic. I agree with you Martin that it's better to get a good well rehearsed group together to record a song rather than trying to do it all yourself. However, I think they were automating way back in the day before fader automation. Instead of one guy doing it, many people were manning faders while they printed live to 2-track. "John, Paul, George, and Ringo manned the faders on the mixing console, while Martin controlled stereo panning and 19-year-old engineer Geoff Emerick kept “a general eye on the meters to make sure no one was doing anything excessive.” Rather than a group of kids banging on drums and guitars, the process conjures images of scientists in a lab, using technology to will a new sort of music into existence. Tomorrow Never KnowsThe SSL technology gave much more power to the mixer/producer. Of course, he then had to send it to the band and get their recall notes. LOL I agree that it was interesting watching him change the FX faders and think it improved the mix's vibe.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 25, 2016 11:37:36 GMT -6
Well you can hear this dynamism even on a crappy computer: nice !
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Post by dandeurloo on Dec 25, 2016 12:13:04 GMT -6
That pan flute
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 25, 2016 13:01:19 GMT -6
When I was doing analogue mixes, we'd have 2 or 3 band members join the engineer to pull moves, so of course, we were doing many things then we do now with automation. But we began with a tight band getting into a room and being on the spot to make it their best. One weak link could ruin everything, so we got very good at being money players then too.
I have no beef with what Alge was doing, he's clearly very very good at what he does. I was just noticing that the end result reminded me of much of today's commercial music. Like the top 20 country productions, slick as it gets, but not as much soul to me as the earlier rock music much of it's based on. I'm growing along with technology. I only began recording again four years ago, after 15 years away from the music business. So the digital revolution was both a blessing and a curse for me. I could now get quite close to something good by myself, but I plan to try to find my way back to where I worked with other musicians in real time. We'll see, real time costs money!
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 25, 2016 13:06:19 GMT -6
It's funny you'd say that, Schoeps to me is always interesting and enlightening but I find dudes like CLA a total borefest - I feel like they spend the entire thing avoiding say anything. Schoeps is a technical dude, he's done broadcast gigs for 100+ channel mixes and he can talk and think in that way and the advice he gives has a lot more universality and depth, I think.
I wouldn't do the Mix W/ The Masters thing. I'm a big fan of some of the engineers, but it just seems like too much of a cash cow for me to get on board with it.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 25, 2016 13:30:46 GMT -6
I completely agree jazznoise. The Shoeps lecture I attended did have some good info, but the situation didn't lend itself to intimate discussion. You put what I've thought about CLA's self promotion activities better than I was able to. I've watched a couple of videos he'd done with students, and he did in fact say almost nothing! He managed to keep a high profile with Slate enterprises, and here at Mix With the Masters. He's doing something natural as we age, branching out in areas he can.
I met him at AES four years ago. I was in a private room with Steven Slate, Allen Sides and Alex Oana, listening to some of my mixes on the Ocean Way monitors through the Focusrite rednet system with the Slate touchscreen board. Alge walked in like he was Steven Tyler, demanding the audiences full attention. The only problem with that is, he isn't, and I'd bet $100 Steven Tyler's more much more fun and less full of himself.
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 25, 2016 14:02:15 GMT -6
Engineering is, by large, pretty boring stuff. A 'Rockstar Engineer' is something too tedious for most people to stomach. As an artist yourself, you know that the technical side is just facilitating the creative side. Why people have to be assholes about it I never understand, since I started gigging again I've mostly met pretty nice dudes but some guys would make your head turn.
I bet Steven is. Screaming your soul out every night for 40 years next to guys and girls of all walks, and seeing some make it and some not should be a deeply humbling experience.
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Post by swurveman on Dec 25, 2016 14:07:16 GMT -6
It's funny you'd say that, Schoeps to me is always interesting and enlightening but I find dudes like CLA a total borefest - I feel like they spend the entire thing avoiding say anything. Schoeps is a technical dude, he's done broadcast gigs for 100+ channel mixes and he can talk and think in that way and the advice he gives has a lot more universality and depth, I think. I wouldn't do the Mix W/ The Masters thing. I'm a big fan of some of the engineers, but it just seems like too much of a cash cow for me to get on board with it. What I'd like to have an extensive learning experience about is parallel compression.
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 25, 2016 15:04:00 GMT -6
Whenever I see these expensive 'Mix it like a pro" video series I always think about the first Kung Fu Panda film.
The secret ingredient is nothing:
Mr. Ping: The secret ingredient is... nothing! Po: Huh? Mr. Ping: You heard me. Nothing! There is no secret ingredient. Po: Wait, wait... it's just plain old noodle soup? You don't add some kind of special sauce or something? Mr. Ping: Don't have to. To make something special you just have to believe it's special. [Po looks at the scroll again, and sees his reflection in it] Po: There is no secret ingredient...
Mixing is the one aspect of musical life you can learn through nothing more than trial and error - there's so much great info out there for free - just get in there and mix and mix.
Before long you will have found the "universal truth" of it for yourself.
Just my take on it :-)
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 25, 2016 15:21:11 GMT -6
It's funny you'd say that, Schoeps to me is always interesting and enlightening but I find dudes like CLA a total borefest - I feel like they spend the entire thing avoiding say anything. Schoeps is a technical dude, he's done broadcast gigs for 100+ channel mixes and he can talk and think in that way and the advice he gives has a lot more universality and depth, I think. I wouldn't do the Mix W/ The Masters thing. I'm a big fan of some of the engineers, but it just seems like too much of a cash cow for me to get on board with it. What I'd like to have an extensive learning experience about is parallel compression. My experience has been: The emperor has no clothes. It's fine for some stuff, but it's not a magic tool and frequently it's a way to make up for poor compression choices. EQ'ing the parallel is a must, obviously, but it still doesn't make a bad mix good. It can be used to good effect when automated to bring up the general drum "ruckus" under heavy guitars. I don't see why people use it on vocals or bass guitar.
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Post by wiz on Dec 25, 2016 15:52:19 GMT -6
You know.....I have never really dug CLA...
But that was killer.....
Even watching on my iPad.
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by nobtwiddler on Dec 25, 2016 16:31:48 GMT -6
I dunno... Maybe it's just me, cause I'm a old bastard, a bit older then Chris...
But there was nothing in that video that I haven't been doing for 30 or more years. And I'm sure many other old bastards (like me!) have been doing the same, albeit in a different fashion.
It was quite normal in the 70's and 80's to print chorus' at slight higher levels then the preceding verse, changing guitar, and or drum levels, vocal blends, and of course, verbs, and echoes, for each part of the song. No new ground here Back then I would print all these separate pieces to tape, and then cut the sections together to make the final mix... If something didn't have enough or just needed a change, then a new piece was printed, and edited into the master. That was the way it was always done.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Dec 25, 2016 16:34:15 GMT -6
Oh and later when I had a automated console (very primitive) this manual type of override was still used to augment whatever was already written!
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 25, 2016 21:28:10 GMT -6
PT has similar / comparable SSL like automation, however, unless if I am mistaken, I think you need PT HD to " unlock" all of the automation functions. Regular PT still has pretty good automation once you understand the workflow of it.
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Post by Ward on Dec 26, 2016 7:28:53 GMT -6
I like any mix that sounds like the musicians and singers performing live. If I can close my eyes and 'see' the band, I think it's a great mix.
A lot of what the mixing royalty 'create' does not do that for me. And I have no time for that kind of 'greatness'. I just like it to sound real, and to translate everywhere I go. When you achieve that, then you've achieved TRUE greatness.
JMHO, YMMV.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 26, 2016 14:34:30 GMT -6
That was interesting. Basically, he's using micro-dynamics to enhance the feel of the song. In a way, this speaks to the state of modern pop music. The mix becomes this perfect assemblage of parts, and Alge is the conductor. It's not as if mixes from different eras weren't attempting something similar, but when you put all the musicians in the same room playing together, it's a much more organic thing with a different energy. When musicians are on the spot, and have to get it right, or blow the take, the combined energy is different. Records done with the Wrecking Crew, or the Muscle Shoals session musicians are good examples. One or two takes, and you had to hit the bullseye, or you wouldn't get a call back. I've been guilty of doing all I can do electronically to serve my songs too, but I hope to get back to five or six people in a room playing together for my next generation of recording. I'm bored with too slick, but I do appreciate the talent, the skill and the effort that takes. The main takeaway here for me was the way Alge changed the reverbs and delays throughout. I've been too occupied with getting other things right, but I really have to get more familiar with automating more than just the instrument levels in Logic. I agree with you Martin that it's better to get a good well rehearsed group together to record a song rather than trying to do it all yourself. However, I think they were automating way back in the day before fader automation. Instead of one guy doing it, many people were manning faders while they printed live to 2-track. "John, Paul, George, and Ringo manned the faders on the mixing console, while Martin controlled stereo panning and 19-year-old engineer Geoff Emerick kept “a general eye on the meters to make sure no one was doing anything excessive.” Rather than a group of kids banging on drums and guitars, the process conjures images of scientists in a lab, using technology to will a new sort of music into existence. Tomorrow Never KnowsThe SSL technology gave much more power to the mixer/producer. Of course, he then had to send it to the band and get their recall notes. LOL I agree that it was interesting watching him change the FX faders and think it improved the mix's vibe. I've been doing dynamic mixing of time based effects since my days doing live sound in clubs and small tours. I think I got it from George Geranios, BOC's original sound guy.
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Post by reddirt on Dec 26, 2016 16:33:16 GMT -6
Hey Martin, I hear you about the organic and glue thing that occurs with live musicians; I am not a fan of music formed by numbers however I do a lot of recording for others and am now tired of trying to fix things after the event. Mainly I do singer songwriters who I will try to get a good rhythm track from which could consist of an acoustic plus possibly the main percussion element, laying on the other insts afterwards.
Many muso's may sound good live but put them under the studio microscope ( myself inc) and their time can be too suss to use as a basis to build the track from, so sadly I am now going to click tracks but even there many have problems and it's damage limitation rather than easy expression.
In expressing my frustrations , I'm getting round to saying that whilst the idea of live muso's is to my mind, the one to shoot for, the reality is that you need people who are totally invested in what you are doing and who are prepared to rehearse in their own time, coming back in till they get it right and there is the conundrum. They all need to be your best mates to put in that time or you pay good players to do it and you need to be sure they can truly play to the standard you hear otherwise you'll be trying to fix things after the event and that's rarely satisfying and a helluva lot of work.
Even the paid players I find need to have the track beforehand and be prepared to know their part before they arrive at the studio; you hope their pride will push them to get it right in their own time or you need a fat wallet as inducement. I've only found one drummer in many years who could lay it down without question and we cut six tracks in a short afternoon so they do exist but can be hard to find.
Just my evolving, no longer 100% pro experience; hope it plays well for you.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 26, 2016 18:12:02 GMT -6
reddit said, "the one to shoot for, the reality is that you need people who are totally invested in what you are doing and who are prepared to rehearse in their own time, coming back in till they get it right and there is the conundrum".
Yes indeed. I've been attempting to start a new band, but unless I do all the legwork, have a half dozen or more good gigs lined up, and can pay basic expenses, there's little interest. Even if the music is way better than some other project. It's understandable, but a little sad. My friend Dusty Wright just released his fourth album. He's an Americana style artist, and we tracked quite a few things here in my living room and his apartment, and he hired great drummers and recorded them in quality studios. We worked together the way friends do, I didn't look for a paycheck every time I comped a vocal or tracked a bass, we just help each other, and I know he'd return the favors in any way he could. I value that friendship a lot, because its just become so rare. On the left in the middle of the page, the second track, "Life is Hard" is an example. We co-wrote and produced it together. dustywright.bandcamp.com/album/caterwauling-towards-the-light
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Post by rowmat on Dec 26, 2016 19:11:34 GMT -6
We are fortunate to have access to a good stable of session players who are worth every cent (and often more) than they are paid.
We produce and record quite a lot of singer/songwriters who typically turn up with an acoustic guitar and a bunch of songs.
Unless they have other musicians who have already worked with them and are well rehearsed, we generally will recommend using session players rather than the client asking friends or other musicians to record with them as using untried or poorly rehearsed players is the best way to waste a day or more along with a bunch of money.
Invariably the client thinks session players will cost them more when mostly the reverse is true after spending twice as long tracking along with the extra time comp'ing and editing for a lesser end result.
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