|
Post by M57 on Dec 22, 2016 5:48:32 GMT -6
I'm this close to taking the plunge. I won't be able to fill it with all the stuff on my list at first, but I figure if I put together a plan:
1 - DBX 520 De-Esser (on sale for $99)
2 - DBX 560A I have a WA76 and a WA-2A that I use on the way in, but I'm thinking a pair of VCA's would be nice for hybrid work, bouncing busses, etc. I was thinking about using them on the 2 at mix-down so I have one question, are the 560's good enough? The price is right at $150 ea.
1 - (preferably 2) pre-amps to complement/contrast with my D4s. I'm a cheap skate with all of the above stuff, but here, I'm willing to save up and spend a bit more for something of decent quality. I probably would have snapped up the Warm 412 if it had half the channels at half the price. In fact, 80% of the reason I'm thinking of going 500 series is for the pre-amps. There are lots of options out there and these things tend to be more affordable than their 19" counterparts.
So to make this happen I need a box. 19" rack mount preferred. It seems to me that a box is a box >>am I trolling or what?<<, and the Lindell 510 at $399 is significantly less expensive than the next 10-slot. I don't need fancy patching/summing. Just a box in key of C please.
I've read here and elsewhere that the quality/amount of power becomes a factor with the box, and I think I read about RF noise on one review of the Lindell 510, but if I have to spend $600+ on a box, I don't really see the point of going 500 series in the first place. I've got lots of room for 19" stuff. Opinions?
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 22, 2016 6:20:17 GMT -6
The lindell 10 has been mostly well reviewed and is good value: maybe looked for a used one ?
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Dec 22, 2016 6:47:40 GMT -6
The lindell 10 has been mostly well reviewed and is good value: maybe looked for a used one ? Never considered a used box.. Good idea.
|
|
|
Post by john on Dec 22, 2016 10:10:31 GMT -6
i like the dbx 560. use them all the time. at the price I recommend getting a pair. id really like to get the AML 1073 in the rack next. using the preamp to track and the eq at mix makes it seem like two-for-one. maybe next year.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 22, 2016 10:25:34 GMT -6
With my Lindell 506, the nuts that the screws screw into (to hold your modules in place) have come dislodged for a couple slots. The build isn't great, but the modules are working fine in mine. I'm happy enough with it.
Also, I'd take the Tonelux compressors over the DBX 100 times out of 100, FWIW.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Dec 22, 2016 10:38:02 GMT -6
The box pretty much IS just a box. It's the POWER SUPPLY that separates the men from the boys. Personally, the cheap enclosures seem to have cheap power supplies. Some may be OK, but I just use Jeff's DIY enclosures. Really great stuff.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014
|
Post by ericn on Dec 22, 2016 11:35:52 GMT -6
The box pretty much IS just a box. It's the POWER SUPPLY that separates the men from the boys. Personally, the cheap enclosures seem to have cheap power supplies. Some may be OK, but I just use Jeff's DIY enclosures. Really great stuff. Start with CAPI rack and pres go from there! There is cheap and Value CAPI is value!
|
|
|
Post by BradM on Dec 22, 2016 14:17:29 GMT -6
The box pretty much IS just a box. It's the POWER SUPPLY that separates the men from the boys. Personally, the cheap enclosures seem to have cheap power supplies. Some may be OK, but I just use Jeff's DIY enclosures. Really great stuff. Something else for folks to note when buying a 500 series rack. Racks made overseas tend to use knock-off EDAC connectors. My experience is that these knock-offs grip the gold fingers on the PCBs way too tightly. The Lindell rack I purchased a few years ago actually was so tight that I found it difficult to remove the module, and it ended up gouging the gold fingers. Personally I found this unacceptable. When I disassembled the thing and discovered a rat's nest of wiring, I was really turned off and sent it right back. I stand by my Purple Sweet 10's. I know the CAPI and Radial racks are solid, too. Brad
|
|
|
Post by pope on Dec 22, 2016 14:58:47 GMT -6
Can you elaborate a bit? What connectors are being used in the US?
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Dec 22, 2016 15:05:06 GMT -6
Actual 'made by EDAC' connectors.
Lots of complaints about the Lindell racks nuts, the metal being so lightweight that a casual bump knocked it all out of square, etc. You get what you pay for when it comes to mechanical integrity .
|
|
|
Post by tasteliketape on Dec 22, 2016 15:16:23 GMT -6
Dandeurloo makes a single power supply for the Capi rack at a great price
|
|
|
Post by winetree on Dec 22, 2016 15:17:42 GMT -6
I've got 8 Capi 51x racks and power supplies. Never had a problem except lining up 15 pin edge card modules into the 18 pin Edacs. It's hard to shell out the money for an empty rack, but in the long run you get what you pay for.
|
|
|
Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 22, 2016 15:33:12 GMT -6
CAPI racks are best value if you build them yourself, especially if you get both 11 space racks since one power supply will cover two racks. Having the power supply separated from the racks basically eliminates any possibility of noise.
The new JLM racks looking really nice too. I'm sure they're high quality.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Dec 22, 2016 15:35:45 GMT -6
How did I know this would evolve into a warning and a love-fest for the higher-end stuff? FWIW, I'd be OK with a smaller box. The more I think of it, I can't see needing more than 6 spaces for my little home studio and home brewed recordings. The Lindell 506 and the Fredenstein Bento 6 both come in well under $400. Regarding resiliency and tight connectors, I'd probably end up racking stuff up once, throw it on a table and never move it again. We're talking LIGHT duty. Yeah, you get what you pay for, but if I'm spending $650+ for a box with nothing in it, and the major reason is for pre-amps (not to mention that I have to explain to my wife why an empty box costs $750), I might as well save a few more pennies and get a nice 19" rack'o preamps or a channel strip of some sort. I was toying with the hybrid idea and having 500 series stuff is probably the only way I could afford to make that happen, but if I never leave the box once I get in there I doubt I'll lose any sleep.
|
|
|
Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 22, 2016 15:39:25 GMT -6
I'd go fredenstein over lindell. Fredenstein don't have the ridiculously tight card connectors.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014
|
Post by ericn on Dec 22, 2016 15:44:29 GMT -6
How did I know this would evolve into a warning and a love-fest for the higher-end stuff? FWIW, I'd be OK with a smaller box. The more I think of it, I can't see needing more than 6 spaces for my little home studio and home brewed recordings. The Lindell 506 and the Fredenstein Bento 6 both come in well under $400. Regarding resiliency and tight connectors, I'd probably end up racking stuff up once, throw it on a table and never move it again. We're talking LIGHT duty. Yeah, you get what you pay for, but if I'm spending $650+ for a box with nothing in it, and the major reason is for pre-amps (not to mention that I have to explain to my wife why an empty box costs $750), I might as well save a few more pennies and get a nice 19" rack'o preamps or a channel strip of some sort. I was toying with the hybrid idea and having 500 series stuff is probably the only way I could afford to make that happen, but if I never leave the box once I get in there I doubt I'll lose any sleep. Eric's rule of consoles applies to 500 racks to Buy bigger than what ever it is you think is bigger than you could possibly need ! Can't solder ? CAPI rack best place to learn buy Dans PSU! Or buy Radial Purple or BAE or buy one of these used! A Rack is Jacks Metal and a PSU , you would think it would be hard to skimp and fuck it up, well you'd be wrong! It's easier to skimp on the simple stuff and totally fuck it up because skimping on the simple stuff means thinner and wider range of tolerances!
|
|
|
Post by BradM on Dec 22, 2016 16:00:20 GMT -6
I like to think of power supplies as the lifeblood of my gear. Personally I don't think saving $100-$200 is worth the potential headaches, and possible suboptimal performance of my gear. This may be an option for you if you are on a budget: www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/API5008BBrad
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Dec 22, 2016 16:24:37 GMT -6
I'm this close to taking the plunge. I won't be able to fill it with all the stuff on my list at first, but I figure if I put together a plan: 1 - DBX 520 De-Esser (on sale for $99) 2 - DBX 560A I have a WA76 and a WA-2A that I use on the way in, but I'm thinking a pair of VCA's would be nice for hybrid work, bouncing busses, etc. I was thinking about using them on the 2 at mix-down so I have one question, are the 560's good enough? The price is right at $150 ea. 1 - (preferably 2) pre-amps to complement/contrast with my D4s. I'm a cheap skate with all of the above stuff, but here, I'm willing to save up and spend a bit more for something of decent quality. I probably would have snapped up the Warm 412 if it had half the channels at half the price. In fact, 80% of the reason I'm thinking of going 500 series is for the pre-amps. There are lots of options out there and these things tend to be more affordable than their 19" counterparts. So to make this happen I need a box. 19" rack mount preferred. It seems to me that a box is a box >>am I trolling or what?<<, and the Lindell 510 at $399 is significantly less expensive than the next 10-slot. I don't need fancy patching/summing. Just a box in key of C please. I've read here and elsewhere that the quality/amount of power becomes a factor with the box, and I think I read about RF noise on one review of the Lindell 510, but if I have to spend $600+ on a box, I don't really see the point of going 500 series in the first place. I've got lots of room for 19" stuff. Opinions? This isn't opinion, it's fact. A box is NOT "just a box". Power supply is key and some of the inexpensive boxes do not have power supplies that meet the minimum spec specified by API - in which case it may not power some modules, may cause degraded performance of some modules and could conceivably even be a fire hazard if heavily loaded. It's not a bad idea at all to get a box capable of supplying MORE than rated current, as some modules can be power hungry. Quality of power regulation is also a consideration, as is isolation - you don't want crosstalk or noise through your power buss.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 22, 2016 16:41:13 GMT -6
This isn't opinion, it's fact. A box is NOT "just a box". Power supply is key and some of the inexpensive boxes do not have power supplies that meet the minimum spec specified by API - in which case it may not power some modules, may cause degraded performance of some modules and could conceivably even be a fire hazard if heavily loaded. Fact huh? Which box doesn't provide power that meets the minnimum spec? The Lindell is rated at 500 a per slot, which is over spec.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Dec 22, 2016 16:42:52 GMT -6
There are also the various single space 2 and 3 module boxes, might be worth looking at those.
Truth is you have to compare a 500 piece with it's stand alone rack version on price, then factor what you're paying in addition for the power supply part, then buy a 500 rack and PSU, divide by the number of channels, and sort out what the PSU/case cost differential is. You are usually saving something substantial with 500 series, even buying top shelf. The wrong path is to see 500 as a cost savings and then also spend less on the case and PSU, as it will bite you at some point. A lesser supply may drag the sound of everything in the rack down, compared to the stand alone version with dedicated supply. It's not about voltage, or 500 versus standalone, it's about quality of power. I had an Old School Audio 500 rack that did fine until you got it 2/3rd loaded up, then the voltage rails suddenly collapsed because the PSU was under-spec for the job.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Dec 22, 2016 16:51:25 GMT -6
This isn't opinion, it's fact. A box is NOT "just a box". Power supply is key and some of the inexpensive boxes do not have power supplies that meet the minimum spec specified by API - in which case it may not power some modules, may cause degraded performance of some modules and could conceivably even be a fire hazard if heavily loaded. Fact huh? Which box doesn't provide power that meets the minnimum spec? The Lindell is rated at 500 a per slot, which is over spec. [/quote] I didn't specify because I don't know - but I do know that people whose business it is to follow these things - including API themselves - have cautioned against substandard racks in the past - it's pretty well known in tech circles. I haven't paid much attention to the details because I don't have any 500 stuff and am not planning to get any in the foreseeable future. Don't have anything against the format, but I just don't have any gear budget right now and I've already got SCAMP and Valley People modular systems.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 22, 2016 17:15:28 GMT -6
Dandeurloo makes a single power supply for the Capi rack at a great price Link?
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 22, 2016 17:17:43 GMT -6
I had an old Brent Averill rack that was a pita. I think most racks work pretty well now. I have an API rack that was cheap and works great.
|
|
|
Post by tasteliketape on Dec 22, 2016 17:23:08 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 22, 2016 17:29:52 GMT -6
|
|