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Post by jakeharris on Jun 17, 2017 15:27:31 GMT -6
Bought KT in 2009, released 1176 clone in 2016... Yep, they're definitely attempting exactly what you describe. You can't get something for nothing. There's always a price. "Economies of scale" is no exception. You keep repeating the same things, but apparently the KT 1176 sounds the same as UA and Urei units. Mission accomplished, and for cheaper than anyone else => better economies of scale than anyone else. So where do the deficient transformers come in? Did you want it to sound 'better' than the original? Or you think replacing the transformers in these units with Cinemag, will make them sound even more the same? You're also making sweeping generalisations, comparing boutique to mass market low-end China wares. If you think they're incapable of making a good transformer, you have a very poor understanding of Chinese capabilities. It's the clients of Chinese factories who demand cheap transformers. It's these clients who demand something for nothing, and the Chinese give them exactly what they want.
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Post by drbill on Jun 17, 2017 16:26:39 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure I remember a interview with Rupert saying that they (RND) were using transformers made in China. I might be wrong, (wouldn't be the first time) but I'm pretty sure I remember that....
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Jun 17, 2017 17:03:55 GMT -6
Actually I remember seeing made in China on Samson, Harman and DBX before Behringer, so Uhl wasn't the first of that either. You remember seeing Made in China on gear in the 1980's? Not so sure about that. 90's yes, 80's no. early 90's before Harmanbought AKG. China is as capeable of makeing anything at the same quality as anybody else if given the parameters. They have Copied many of the worlds favorite loudspeaker drivers, they differ from the originals in price and virtually eliminating rejects. What keeps them from dominating the audio Transformer Buisness is 2 factors First the exceptence of brand names, second Most of China's manufacturers are not set up for the small runs that are the norm in the audio Buisness. This is where Warm was an innovator, Nobody building La2, 1176, 312 or Pultec clones had the capital or guts to bet the farm on a large quantity production run that would bring the price down to where Warm is at. Behring built a City around its factories , has the Capital and the guts to redesign these classics and a Worldwide distribution system set up to move the products and a fairly unused at this point Brand to use as a Mid priced channel to distinguish them from Behringer! I'll bet if Warm had brought out the KT SMT redesign at KT's price they would have been a flop! The market expects a more traditional execution from the little guy, From Uhli, many have lowered expectations & many see only the price.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 17, 2017 17:11:01 GMT -6
You can't get something for nothing. There's always a price. "Economies of scale" is no exception. You keep repeating the same things, but apparently the KT 1176 sounds the same as UA and Urei units. Any sound samples to back this claim up?
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Post by jakeharris on Jun 17, 2017 17:42:16 GMT -6
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Post by jakeharris on Jun 17, 2017 17:46:50 GMT -6
early 90's before Harmanbought AKG. "While Behringer products were manufactured in Willich, Germany, many of the individual components were imported from mainland China. In 1990, to lower production costs, Behringer shifted production from West Germany to mainland China." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BehringerNo idea how accurate any of that is
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Post by rowmat on Jun 17, 2017 18:00:52 GMT -6
Well I'm done with all this senseless branding controversy! I'm heading out for a coffee.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 17, 2017 21:17:58 GMT -6
Interesting conversation:resonates for me ironically cus like 5 years ago when I bought my used chameleon labs 7802 I mentioned this in an email to Bryce at warm he congratulated me but immediately recommended I contact David at Cinemag to upgrade the transformers essentially for the reasons stated above. David then made me some custom transformers as he said he had always wanted to for a tube based circuit. ok by me mr nobody getting some custom Cinemag transformers made ! Bryce recommended what he called zebra 50/50 steel/nickel:sounded smooth and clear ! Big props to Cinemag from me. Great company to deal with even as a small time customer. Also very fairly priced for what you get. I've got their iron in one microphone, and two mic preamps, with plans for a few more down the road.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 17, 2017 21:30:26 GMT -6
Well I'm done with all this senseless branding controversy! I'm heading out for a coffee. Wins thread. Reminds me of the FUCK overdrive from smallsound/bigsound. Senseless indeed.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 18, 2017 7:25:24 GMT -6
Sorry, but I didn't see any sound samples posted. Did a specific poster post some? I'd like to hear the unprocessed file, download it and use my UA 1176 and compare.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 18, 2017 8:03:38 GMT -6
Sorry, but I didn't see any sound samples posted. Did a specific poster post some? I'd like to hear the unprocessed file, download it and use my UA 1176 and compare. Send me a track and I'll process it through my WA76 and 1176-KT.
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Post by jakeharris on Jun 18, 2017 11:36:27 GMT -6
Couldn't agree more about Cinemag: The way they're run, the products, and the pricing, all of it is exceptional.
A special company.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 18, 2017 13:48:38 GMT -6
Sorry, but I didn't see any sound samples posted. Did a specific poster post some? I'd like to hear the unprocessed file, download it and use my UA 1176 and compare. Send me a track and I'll process it through my WA76 and 1176-KT. Thanks. Will do.
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Post by gar381 on Jun 18, 2017 15:59:17 GMT -6
Couldn't agree more about Cinemag: The way they're run, the products, and the pricing, all of it is exceptional. A special company. Big Thumbs Up to David !! He is real good to me and is fun to and knowledgeable to talk to. Gary
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Post by john on Jun 19, 2017 12:05:23 GMT -6
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Post by Guitar on Jun 19, 2017 12:23:16 GMT -6
Wow they really went all out with available center frequencies. Looks really modern, too.
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Post by john on Jun 19, 2017 12:32:24 GMT -6
Wow they really went all out with available center frequencies. Looks really modern, too. true! not familiar with the brand but they also offer 1176 and sta-level clones.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 16:07:01 GMT -6
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Post by Guitar on Jul 15, 2017 16:24:30 GMT -6
I just placed an order, LOL.................... ;-D
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Post by rowmat on Jul 15, 2017 16:25:58 GMT -6
Obviously a ploy to put the competition out of business. I'm guessing Uli will make Warm Audio "an offer they can't refuse" by the end of the year. It wouldn't surprise me one iota if even AMS Neve becomes part of his stable of brand aquisitions at some point in the future. 1073's for $299 anyone? Never say "Never!"
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 15, 2017 16:40:41 GMT -6
I grabbed a pair.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 15, 2017 16:50:03 GMT -6
Does anyone have and like them or are people buying on spec ?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 15, 2017 17:14:56 GMT -6
Does anyone have and like them or are people buying on spec ? I based my purchase on the 1176-KT that have.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 15, 2017 17:23:17 GMT -6
I'm just going on faith here, hahaha, and LOW LOW PRICES. But seriously I have listened to some KT clips and they sounded pretty good. There is a return policy also, as a ripcord option.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 15, 2017 17:44:20 GMT -6
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Group_(company)"The company is currently building a large new complex, that is currently the largest industrial undertaking in Zhongshan, China. The complex will house a new factory and dormitories for up to 10,000 workers." I hope they take a leaf out of Apple's corporate manufacturing strategy and include bars on the factory windows to stop the workers jumping out!
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