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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 5, 2016 21:54:04 GMT -6
I just wanna give a shoutout to jsteiger and his VP28. I tracked some trombone and trumpet recently, and his preamp paired with an RE20 into the symphony i/o sounded AWESOME. Super clean, super pretty sound. I was really blown away by how good it sounded. I mean, 95% of the sound is the players, but that remaining 5% that the gear handles? the VP28 + RE20 is really an amazing combo for trumpet and trombone. Basically, everything I love about the CV4 + ez1073, with none of the stuff I hate about that mic/pre combo! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 5, 2016 22:09:00 GMT -6
So much headroom in that pre...I could see how it would be fantastic in that application. Were you low on the input and hotter on output?
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Post by jsteiger on Aug 5, 2016 22:56:25 GMT -6
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 5, 2016 23:50:10 GMT -6
I kept the output at 0 and had the input at the 2nd or 3rd click past unity.. I just told the guys to not play so hard and there was that amazing brass sound we hear on all of those 80s records that feature horns
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Post by ragan on Aug 6, 2016 9:43:43 GMT -6
Ah, I see you guys are really getting down to brass tracks in here.
....sorry....I'll just grab my hat....
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Post by swurveman on Aug 6, 2016 10:18:11 GMT -6
Hey Chuck, do you mind putting up some audio samples?
I just did recorded a French Horn player with a Vintech X73i and a Schoeps CMC64 that was placed at 6' high and 6' from the player just off axis. First time ever recording brass. These files are not processed in any way. I'm curious to hear other people's work, as recording brass is a new experience for me.
Here's the sound:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/songflowerrecording/heldleben-08
_
https%3A//soundcloud.com/songflowerrecording/mendelssohn-3-best
https%3A//soundcloud.com/songflowerrecording/strauss-1-best
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921 
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2016 11:18:44 GMT -6
I just wanna give a shoutout to jsteiger and his VP28. I tracked some trombone and trumpet recently, and his preamp paired with an RE20 into the symphony i/o sounded AWESOME. Super clean, super pretty sound. I was really blown away by how good it sounded. I mean, 95% of the sound is the players, but that remaining 5% that the gear handles? the VP28 + RE20 is really an amazing combo for trumpet and trombone. Basically, everything I love about the CV4 + ez1073, with none of the stuff I hate about that mic/pre combo! Nothing more classic than the sound of a a big old dynamic into a "Classic American Console " I'll never call CAPI a utility pre, but I do know it even works on Cello! |
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Post by keymod on Aug 7, 2016 3:51:06 GMT -6
This is one more reason I need to get five VP28 for the sidecar which I can never seem to finish. All it takes is budget of time and money, neither of which I have at the moment......
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 7, 2016 9:46:50 GMT -6
I just wanna give a shoutout to jsteiger and his VP28. I tracked some trombone and trumpet recently, and his preamp paired with an RE20 into the symphony i/o sounded AWESOME. Super clean, super pretty sound. I was really blown away by how good it sounded. I mean, 95% of the sound is the players, but that remaining 5% that the gear handles? the VP28 + RE20 is really an amazing combo for trumpet and trombone. Basically, everything I love about the CV4 + ez1073, with none of the stuff I hate about that mic/pre combo! I'm surprised you didn't go with a ribbon. I love the ribbon smoothness on brass. |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 7, 2016 9:56:47 GMT -6
I don't own a ribbon mic
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Post by drbill on Aug 7, 2016 14:46:04 GMT -6
You owe it to yourself to try a ribbon. Classic sound for all brass - especially tpts, and secondarily saxes. For tbns I usually go with an 87, but if you're after retro, a ribbon works awesome. Several tpt soloists I've done have tried virtually everything and M. Joly's 205 modded ribbon has beaten out EVERYthing else includiing 47's, etc.. I've had to buy them ribbons when finished with the projects cause they didn't want to leave without my mic in their hands. LOL Especially great on Harmon's - and very inexpensive - even after the mod.
My favorite brass tracking sessions have been on Conway's 80 series Neve in studio A (or maybe it's C - I always get them mixed up) with M49's back aways for a killer room vibe, and Coles 4038's, RCA 77's and M. Joly 205's close on the section. Awesome.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 7, 2016 16:13:44 GMT -6
The AEA R84 is great on brass!
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 7, 2016 22:18:43 GMT -6
You owe it to yourself to try a ribbon. Classic sound for all brass - especially tpts, and secondarily saxes. For tbns I usually go with an 87, but if you're after retro, a ribbon works awesome. Several tpt soloists I've done have tried virtually everything and M. Joly's 205 modded ribbon has beaten out EVERYthing else includiing 47's, etc.. I've had to buy them ribbons when finished with the projects cause they didn't want to leave without my mic in their hands. LOL Especially great on Harmon's - and very inexpensive - even after the mod. My favorite brass tracking sessions have been on Conway's 80 series Neve in studio A (or maybe it's C - I always get them mixed up) with M49's back aways for a killer room vibe, and Coles 4038's, RCA 77's and M. Joly 205's close on the section. Awesome. I have tried a ribbon: |
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Post by drbill on Aug 8, 2016 12:44:03 GMT -6
From what I've heard about it, the VL37 is almost "condenser-like" in it's open-ness on the top end (haven't had the opportunity to try it yet myself). That's a very different sound than what I'm talking about though. Try an RCA 77/44, Coles 4038, AEA 84 or the Joly 205's if you get the chance. <<thumbsup>>
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Post by kilroyrock on Aug 8, 2016 13:38:18 GMT -6
With that mic, that pre, that reverb, and mostly that playing - it was instant righteousness. That made my afternoon, man. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 8, 2016 14:08:38 GMT -6
I didn't listen.... LOL Gotta get to a computer where I can check it out now. :-)
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Post by keymod on Aug 8, 2016 14:13:25 GMT -6
With that mic, that pre, that reverb, and mostly that playing - it was instant righteousness. That made my afternoon, man. Agreed. |
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Post by terryrocks on Aug 8, 2016 14:18:13 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Aug 8, 2016 20:05:35 GMT -6
Well, it's time to cover a couple of basics here, boys and girls.
Trumpet: U89, 441 or 421. In that order of preference. (gasp, the long overlooked and disregarded and underrated U89 over a U87 or other Neumann? Yes, kids, but for a slightly less weighty sound you can also use its transformless TLM170 brother)
Sax (alto or tenor): C414. The new XLS is great in this application, but so is the B-ULS, the P48 and the EB.
Bone: RE20 or RE27 for days and days and days. An SM7 in a inch, even a Beta 57. But there's a magic in those big old honkin' Electro-Voice mics.
As for ribbons? The Samar (Sam R) is far too 'Rizzy' or 'Reedy' on sax. An RCA 44 is a little dark. An RCA 77 is back towards 414 territory. And Most ribbons, besides the Samar and Royer, can't really take the air blasts from any horn without disintegrating.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 8, 2016 20:14:36 GMT -6
Sax (alto or tenor): C414. The new XLS is great in this application, but so is the B-ULS, the P48 and the EB. It's funny you say this. Every video i've posted where everyone likes my sound is where I used my 414B-ULS, NOT the MicRehab CV4. |
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Post by EmRR on Aug 8, 2016 20:25:48 GMT -6
You put a ribbon 3-4 feet from horns, well away from the air blast. If they walk up to it, you slap the shit out of them.
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Post by drbill on Aug 8, 2016 21:30:36 GMT -6
Well, it's time to cover a couple of basics here, boys and girls.Trumpet: U89, 441 or 421. In that order of preference. (gasp, the long overlooked and disregarded and underrated U89 over a U87 or other Neumann? Yes, kids, but for a slightly less weighty sound you can also use its transformless TLM170 brother) Sax (alto or tenor): C414. The new XLS is great in this application, but so is the B-ULS, the P48 and the EB. Bone: RE20 or RE27 for days and days and days. An SM7 in a inch, even a Beta 57. But there's a magic in those big old honkin' Electro-Voice mics. As for ribbons? The Samar (Sam R) is far too 'Rizzy' or 'Reedy' on sax. An RCA 44 is a little dark. An RCA 77 is back towards 414 territory. And Most ribbons, besides the Samar and Royer, can't really take the air blasts from any horn without disintegrating. Couldn't tell if you were joking or not. But there's way more than one path to horn nirvana. The above might be basics for you, but it would be a recipe for a horrible recording for me. Different strokes. Obviously. Cause I hate the 414's. Hate em. All of em - and yet they somehow work for you. When recording horns I tend to head for ribbons first. Way before a dynamic. Love my 441's, but after trying them many times on Tpts, they always come up short in light of other options and they'll never get pulled out for Tpt again. I love the 170 and would use it on FHn or Tbn, but not on Tpt - ever. But that's me. BTW, calling a 77 in 414 territory? Sorry, just don't hear that for an instant. On a side note - sections get radically different treatment than soloists, but I still tend to head into ribbon territory before anything else. Then you're got stylistic issues - Orchestral? Big Band? Jerry Hey funky section? Hip Hop? Reggae? Straight up Jazz? All need different treatments IMO. |
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Post by ragan on Aug 8, 2016 23:36:43 GMT -6
I always get a nice chuckle when someone announces rigidly "correct" chains for various scenarios.
Gimme a break. It only takes about 10 sessions to realize there are many ways to skin the cat.
After hundreds, you should be well versed in flexibility.
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Post by reddirt on Aug 9, 2016 2:51:00 GMT -6
Just echoing Dr Bill's love for the MJ modded 205 ribbon - last weekend used one on a tenor played in a fairly high register into my Prism titan pre - about a foot away from the bell , gave a very sweet sound without any edge - worked beautifully .
far preferable to my condensor experiences. FWIW
Cheers, Ross
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Post by Ward on Aug 9, 2016 11:51:21 GMT -6
One thing I've learned from this forum:
Some people agree. Others disagree.
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