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Post by Mister Chase on Jun 26, 2016 15:25:08 GMT -6
I like comparisons of single instruments - but I also thought it would be beneficial to build up a whole track to see how they compare overall. So I split each mic signal with an XLR Y that went into each preamp. Acoustic guitar was an audix OM5 Bass was a whirlwind DI Electric guitar was a Peluso p67(both guitar tracks) Drums were p67 overhead shaker was p67 Both units are in a Radial workhorse six pack going db25 into Lynx Aurora 16 A/D to Reaper 44.1khz. I used Voxengo SPAN to level match each instrument best I could. I will post individual track files later. For now, the mixdowns. No processing was used at all at any time except for panning and levels to get a balance. All faders and pans are identical/matched. Here is the VP28 trackHere is the VP312 track
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Post by kevinnyc on Jun 28, 2016 16:27:24 GMT -6
Very cool of you to do this!
I still feel like a kid in a candy store when I fire these pres up...
I'm curious about your impressions between the two versions...
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 1, 2016 21:58:04 GMT -6
Very cool of you to do this! I still feel like a kid in a candy store when I fire these pres up... I'm curious about your impressions between the two versions... Thank you for listening and replying! I am glad the playing did not scare you away lol. I know - they are so great. I am grateful the Jeff has done the work to get these kits to us. First of all, I must say that I didn't think I would like the API sound much based on some descriptions I've heard, however I believe they were made about modern API gear. I've always been kind of a Neve chaser in some ways - big fat warm etc. Though, after reading more and more about the CAPI gear... I had to try it. The risk was low at the price anyway. A big time studio around here has some vintage API consoles(Gold Seal and 1608 I think) and they make great, clear sounding records. So I decided, I'll try it. And I am loving it. The forwardness of the sound is so nice and it isn't hard or painful. Both units have this aspect. Mine use the GAR2520's by the way. The clarity is wonderful, but you get this subtle(at reasonable settings) color that is just hard to describe. I would love to do some rock projects through these, and jazz. For me, the differences are summed up mainly, sonic wise, as: VP312 - more open top, slightly larger lows VP28 - a little more warmth but with a tighter bass and slightly darker top end, almost like a presence peak is a bit lower in the mids. Slightly more aggressive. Both are punchy and forward and musical. A/Bing the song I did, I hear more sparkle on the top of the VP312, especially the cymbal sustains. It's attractive and sucks me in, in an A/B situation - however recording on either, you could move mics/eq etc and end up with similar sounds, I think. So I tend to favor the VP28 for its hi passing, line level options etc. Very versatile. Though there is something a little more "pretty" sounding about the 312. If I had my druthers, I would have 8 of each - however I feel I'll end up with 2 312s for overheads or higher fi acoustic tracks, and as many vp28s as I can muster for everything else. I actually prefer the VP28 on my acoustic dreadnaught right now. It tames some of the zing in the top while really bringing out the strumming attack. If I can make a slew of 28s, I'll put them up on drums. I need a VPR rack kit though, as my Radial six pack is overflowing at this point... great problem to have.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 2, 2016 15:33:42 GMT -6
I think your description is pretty much on the head. Man, NOTHING wrong with the 312s...
Maybe we should post this on the main board. Mind if I move it there?
BTW - welcome! great playing!
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 2, 2016 16:00:08 GMT -6
I think your description is pretty much on the head. Man, NOTHING wrong with the 312s... Maybe we should post this on the main board. Mind if I move it there? BTW - welcome! great playing! Thank you for the kind words! Please feel free to move this thread anywhere you think it will be best suited. Both these capi units are stellar and I love them very much. I just need more racks so I can build a zillion of them and eqs.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 2, 2016 18:43:40 GMT -6
We should all be Glad Jeff bought that classic 2488! Jeff unlike most understands that the thing that everybody loves about the sound of that magical beast isn't what it does right but what it does wrong! Modern API has been all about taking the thing more HIFI! Jeff instead has that buetiful old girl to judge everyone of of his new creations and for that we are very lucky ! The fact that he gives us all these different variations of that sound is cruel in the kindest way!
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Post by scumbum on Jul 3, 2016 12:23:25 GMT -6
I hear the transients are more tamed with the VP28 , which is a good thing ! Also the VP28 sounds more solid and dense . Reminds me of that old school sound they got back in the day with a console and tape . Makes me wanna build some VP28's !! I probably will once I sell my guitar amp .
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 3, 2016 12:33:24 GMT -6
What opamps are you running in each?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 3, 2016 13:23:09 GMT -6
We should all be Glad Jeff bought that classic 2488! Jeff unlike most understands that the thing that everybody loves about the sound of that magical beast isn't what it does right but what it does wrong! Modern API has been all about taking the thing more HIFI! Jeff instead has that buetiful old girl to judge everyone of of his new creations and for that we are very lucky ! The fact that he gives us all these different variations of that sound is cruel in the kindest way! Believe it's a 3232... jsteiger
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 3, 2016 13:23:29 GMT -6
Now I want a 312
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Post by kilroyrock on Jul 3, 2016 13:30:05 GMT -6
At least it's cheaper, maybe I will do a pair!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 3, 2016 13:40:43 GMT -6
OK...I think Jeff has talked me into doing one of the LCs - or a pair
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Post by junior on Jul 3, 2016 13:42:38 GMT -6
For me, the differences are summed up mainly, sonic wise, as: VP312 - more open top, slightly larger lows VP28 - a little more warmth but with a tighter bass and slightly darker top end, almost like a presence peak is a bit lower in the mids. Slightly more aggressive. Both are punchy and forward and musical. A/Bing the song I did, I hear more sparkle on the top of the VP312, especially the cymbal sustains. It's attractive and sucks me in, in an A/B situation - however recording on either, you could move mics/eq etc and end up with similar sounds, I think. So I tend to favor the VP28 for its hi passing, line level options etc. Very versatile. Though there is something a little more "pretty" sounding about the 312. If I had my druthers, I would have 8 of each - however I feel I'll end up with 2 312s for overheads or higher fi acoustic tracks, and as many vp28s as I can muster for everything else. I actually prefer the VP28 on my acoustic dreadnaught right now. It tames some of the zing in the top while really bringing out the strumming attack. Don't forget about the VP26. From what I understand, it's kinda' the little brother to the VP28. And, they're a pretty easy build, too... Love my 312's and 26's...
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 3, 2016 17:05:45 GMT -6
We should all be Glad Jeff bought that classic 2488! Jeff unlike most understands that the thing that everybody loves about the sound of that magical beast isn't what it does right but what it does wrong! Modern API has been all about taking the thing more HIFI! Jeff instead has that buetiful old girl to judge everyone of of his new creations and for that we are very lucky ! The fact that he gives us all these different variations of that sound is cruel in the kindest way! I am grateful Jeff has done all he has. It's really opened up so many great sounds and options at a great price for all of us. I can't wait to build more. I am more interested in the API stuff now. I'm a bit curious as to how the 312 preamp module card had more fidelity and less components, and the later modules that Jeff modeled in the VP26 and VP28 have more components and a more altered tone(which is wonderful). Why would API move in that direction from their first efforts to the mid 70s designs?
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 3, 2016 17:07:09 GMT -6
I hear the transients are more tamed with the VP28 , which is a good thing ! Also the VP28 sounds more solid and dense . Reminds me of that old school sound they got back in the day with a console and tape . Makes me wanna build some VP28's !! I probably will once I sell my guitar amp . Scumbum! I read your old GS threads on these models and listened to your clips! Glad you are over here now and away from the evil empire :-) The vp28 does seem slightly more "together" and warmer. It still punches fine - if not more to my ears, in the mids.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 3, 2016 17:08:01 GMT -6
What opamps are you running in each? I am running GAR 2520's I built in each module. Can't compare to others, but from clip comparisons, I like them the best. Red Dot's sound more 3d and punchy, but there is something so nice about the GAR.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 3, 2016 17:09:00 GMT -6
Do it! It's probably the simplest DIY build I've done. Affordable, too. Not saying you aren't capable of hard DIY, but you can get your 312 up and running with little fanfare. It's more instantly gratifying if you are chomping at the bit for tones.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 3, 2016 17:09:36 GMT -6
OK...I think Jeff has talked me into doing one of the LCs - or a pair I REALLY want to do some LCs. Those will take my utmost attention and patience. I think it'll be SO worth it, though. I need more racks...
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 3, 2016 17:10:38 GMT -6
For me, the differences are summed up mainly, sonic wise, as: VP312 - more open top, slightly larger lows VP28 - a little more warmth but with a tighter bass and slightly darker top end, almost like a presence peak is a bit lower in the mids. Slightly more aggressive. Both are punchy and forward and musical. A/Bing the song I did, I hear more sparkle on the top of the VP312, especially the cymbal sustains. It's attractive and sucks me in, in an A/B situation - however recording on either, you could move mics/eq etc and end up with similar sounds, I think. So I tend to favor the VP28 for its hi passing, line level options etc. Very versatile. Though there is something a little more "pretty" sounding about the 312. If I had my druthers, I would have 8 of each - however I feel I'll end up with 2 312s for overheads or higher fi acoustic tracks, and as many vp28s as I can muster for everything else. I actually prefer the VP28 on my acoustic dreadnaught right now. It tames some of the zing in the top while really bringing out the strumming attack. Don't forget about the VP26. From what I understand, it's kinda' the little brother to the VP28. And, they're a pretty easy build, too... Love my 312's and 26's... This is true, but after hearing the extra mojo and all the extra functionality of using the 28 as a line amp... I don't think I can go back lol. I need a zillion VP28s and LCs to make myself a console :-)
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Post by wiz on Jul 3, 2016 17:30:44 GMT -6
its really funny ... how we all describe things..
I would have described the 312 as tighter sounding...
reminds me of what my JLM TG500 does.. or at least how I think of it in my collection of preamps.
both sound cool...
cheers
Wiz
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Post by jsteiger on Jul 3, 2016 18:15:28 GMT -6
We should all be Glad Jeff bought that classic 2488! Jeff unlike most understands that the thing that everybody loves about the sound of that magical beast isn't what it does right but what it does wrong! Modern API has been all about taking the thing more HIFI! Jeff instead has that buetiful old girl to judge everyone of of his new creations and for that we are very lucky ! The fact that he gives us all these different variations of that sound is cruel in the kindest way! Believe it's a 3232... jsteiger Correct you are John.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 3, 2016 21:15:08 GMT -6
An even better reason for a road trip down to Nashville!
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 4, 2016 11:12:02 GMT -6
What opamps are you running in each? I am running GAR 2520's I built in each module. Can't compare to others, but from clip comparisons, I like them the best. Red Dot's sound more 3d and punchy, but there is something so nice about the GAR. Scott's 1731's will kind of give you the best of both worlds in the VP28. They're not nearly as dark and they have plenty of punch and a really nice top end. I ran Gar 2520's in mine on the buss for a while and the dark top was something I had to compensate for a bit, and it was tougher to get the bottom to bloom out.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 4, 2016 13:20:53 GMT -6
I am running GAR 2520's I built in each module. Can't compare to others, but from clip comparisons, I like them the best. Red Dot's sound more 3d and punchy, but there is something so nice about the GAR. Scott's 1731's will kind of give you the best of both worlds in the VP28. They're not nearly as dark and they have plenty of punch and a really nice top end. I ran Gar 2520's in mine on the buss for a while and the dark top was something I had to compensate for a bit, and it was tougher to get the bottom to bloom out. Interesting. I was trying my absolute best to not go down the op amp rabbit hole for fear of analysis paralysis etc. But that descrip sounds kind of perfect. I dont see a 1731 on Scotts site. The GAR 1731 clips all seem much darker than the 2520 to me
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 4, 2016 13:42:23 GMT -6
I dont see a 1731 on Scotts site. sll
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