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Post by popmann on Jun 10, 2016 15:28:20 GMT -6
I thought we needed a thread to tell stories from our experience about what I used to call "the answering machine effect"--because an answering machine message was often the first time many humans ever heard the sound of their own voices. They would always make a face and go "I sound like THAT?" The same thing happens recording young artists in the studio often. I'm obviously not using the "good mic"....or....something....I've often said that as much as I DID love the U87 it was really more about "shut up and sing" than actual fidelity--they may have sounded better on the Re20 or whatever we had up, but no one argued when you hung the 87. THAT, apparently IS what they sound like....hmm....of course that was before internet "expertise" and knowledge of boutiquey frou frou mics was a thing...now, there would probably be young singers that would see the old beat up 87 and go "don't you have a TOOB mic?"
Anyway--my fave story was recording a woman some years back here at the home studio--demo for her church something or other...she had sung some harmonies on my last record....but, she showed up and blew those out quickly--she had no dog in that hunt really....she sung into the Sm7 I put up for her and went about her day. But, for her solo stuff, I thought I'd put up a selection of mics--let's pick the most flattering for her demo. I think I had the Gefell UM70, Sm7, and 414 up....on playback, I went from the sm7 to the Gefell and she said "Those are different? Sound the same to me. They make me sAAound CUUUUUNTRREEEE"--spelling to show that she has one of the heaviest drawls I've worked with....but, from her POV, my microphones MADE HER SOUND like she had an accent. Um....she went with the 414, because it scooped a little of the middle downplaying the nasal aspect of her accent. I still say, as the person standing in close proximity to her singing--the other two were truer, but it WAS her demo, and the 414 sounded fine. I wouldn't put up something that wouldn't work. I've got stuff to do, you know?
Anyway--MJB's thread about the one man band got me thinking it's time to share experiences/annecdotes about this.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 10, 2016 15:51:26 GMT -6
I did a recording when I was 9 years old. I was a soloist in my school's glee club. It was a predecessor to the NY All City chorus, and we traveled to other schools doing gigs. They took me to a recording studio, and I sang 9 or 10 songs with the chorus backing me up. I think I heard a minute of playback, but barely remember. I was supposed to hear it when they broadcast the show to all NY State schools on Wednesday's at 2:00. It was kind of like an in-house PBS thing. My parents moved to California for a year, and I missed hearing the show.
At 14, we "borrowed" my friend's older brother's answering machine, stuck the mic on a table in the basement we rehearsed in and recorded a song. I may still have that cassette somewhere, but it was distorted and could barely hear my vocal.
I worked with lead singers after that, so had little idea what I sounded like. Fast forward to my first interview, for Rock Scene magazine or the Soho Weekly news, I forget, I couldn't believe my Brooklyn accent! I prided myself on being English and smart, but hearing myself on playback, I sounded like one of the Bowery Boys.
Years passed, and after working with some of the top voice over cats on commercials I was producing, I picked up a little of what they were doing. I often had to do the voice over on the demo to get a job, then hire them. So, my speaking voice improved, and my vocals on my songs got better slowly.
Now, I'm proud of the hints of Brooklyn accent that are still there, but not so heavy. The English blood in me came forward as I matured, and my voice is closer in tone to a Chris Isaak, or Bryan Ferry than a punk from Brooklyn, so it's all good now.
It didn't hurt that when I was single I looked and sounded a bit like Christopher Walken. If a woman liked the type, I was in like Flynn!
Oh, I almost forgot, it was in fact a U87 I used for a decade at home, and yes, that IS what I sound like. I'd love to try one again, perhaps I've haven't been seeing the forest for the trees.
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Post by wiz on Jun 10, 2016 16:07:23 GMT -6
I did a recording when I was 9 years old. I was a soloist in my school's glee club. It was a predecessor to the NY All City chorus, and we traveled to other schools doing gigs. They took me to a recording studio, and I sang 9 or 10 songs with the chorus backing me up. I think I heard a minute of playback, but barely remember. I was supposed to hear it when they broadcast the show to all NY State schools on Wednesday's at 2:00. It was kind of like an in-house PBS thing. My parents moved to California for a year, and I missed hearing the show. At 14, we "borrowed" my friend's older brother's answering machine, stuck the mic on a table in the basement we rehearsed in and recorded a song. I may still have that cassette somewhere, but it was distorted and could barely hear my vocal. I worked with lead singers after that, so had little idea what I sounded like. Fast forward to my first interview, for Rock Scene magazine or the Soho Weekly news, I forget, I couldn't believe my Brooklyn accent! I prided myself on being English and smart, but hearing myself on playback, I sounded like one of the Bowery Boys. Years passed, and after working with some of the top voice over cats on commercials I was producing, I picked up a little of what they were doing. I often had to do the voice over on the demo to get a job, then hire them. So, my speaking voice improved, and my vocals on my songs got better slowly. Now, I'm proud of the hints of Brooklyn accent that are still there, but not so heavy. The English blood in me came forward as I matured, and my voice is closer in tone to a Chris Isaak, or Bryan Ferry than a punk from Brooklyn, so it's all good now. It didn't hurt that when I was single I looked and sounded a bit like Christopher Walken. If a woman liked the type, I was in like Flynn! Oh, I almost forgot, it was in fact a U87 I used for a decade at home, and yes, that IS what I sound like. I'd love to try one again, perhaps I've haven't been seeing the forest for the trees. I have often wondered, you have mentioned the U87 many times, and have been searching for a vocal mic.. as I said, I often wonder why not go back to a U87? Is it the cost? cheers Wiz |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 10, 2016 16:12:16 GMT -6
Thanks for thinking on that Wiz.
It has been money holding me back, yes. I teach music to kids, and a teacher's pay is poor here, though it's a fulfilling thing to do. Also, long story short, all the money I had in the world I needed for medical expenses. I still owe around $35,000. So for every little purchase, I have to circumvent the bills for a week or two.
No complaints though, I'm grateful and fortunate to even be here.
I'll see if I can get one to try soon. My mic is a beautifully designed piece, I'd say 3/4 U47, 1/4 M49. So in theory, It could better a U87. I think what I liked about the 87 and the Soyuz 0-17 both is the K67 style capsule. The pickup pattern was just right for my voice, and I like a BIG sound for lead vocals. Like Chris Isaak, or Lyle Lovette big.
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Post by popmann on Jun 10, 2016 18:05:50 GMT -6
As someone who has worked with plenty of U87s of different vintaged and M49s....they aren't CLOSE in sound. Better/worse doesn't apply.
Anyway--the good news is, old 87i are SO consistent unit to unit, you can buy one, as long as it hasn't been modded or dropped in mud puddles, it will sound the same.
that said....it may very well not sound like you REMEMBER it, which is a different thing...you were going to tape for one....I would rent one first. It'll cost you what $25 to rent it for a day? See if it is indeed still your grail. If it is, as someone who used to use them all the time--there's nothing like them. I mean, lots of things "like" them....but, no direct functional equal....and they're not hard to come by (yet). It IS one of the few LDCs I can say will do a nice job on acoustic, TOO, IME.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 10, 2016 18:34:12 GMT -6
Will do popmann, thanks, great suggestion. I was thinking about that today.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 10, 2016 21:33:12 GMT -6
Martin, if you'd like to come out to the place I work at for an afternoon you are more than welcome to do so.
Bring your mic, and we can try it against what we have through as many preamps as you'd like. At least then you can compare mics to what you're hearing in your head and get an idea of where to go next.
87 - 3
67 - 3
47 - 2
49 - 2
c12 - 2
269 - 1
sm7 - 1
etc etc etc
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934 
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2016 22:04:02 GMT -6
Martin, if you'd like to come out to the place I work at for an afternoon you are more than welcome to do so. Bring your mic, and we can try it against what we have through as many preamps as you'd like. At least then you can compare mics to what you're hearing in your head and get an idea of where to go next. 87 - 3 67 - 3 47 - 2 49 - 2 c12 - 2 269 - 1 sm7 - 1 etc etc etc Damn wish I was in the neighborhood ! |
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Post by henge on Jun 11, 2016 9:54:23 GMT -6
Martin, if you'd like to come out to the place I work at for an afternoon you are more than welcome to do so. Bring your mic, and we can try it against what we have through as many preamps as you'd like. At least then you can compare mics to what you're hearing in your head and get an idea of where to go next. 87 - 3 67 - 3 47 - 2 49 - 2 c12 - 2 269 - 1 sm7 - 1 etc etc etc Very generous of you!! |
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Post by Ward on Jun 11, 2016 11:34:07 GMT -6
87 - 3 67 - 3 47 - 2 49 - 2 c12 - 2 269 - 1 sm7 - 1 etc etc etc Did your place of work buy most of those from a guy un Vermont? Cos it's almost a mirror list of what he was selling as a batch 2 years ago. He was asking $90K for the lot then. |
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Post by Guitar on Jun 12, 2016 13:20:01 GMT -6
I like when Thom Yorke or Billy Corgan say to interviewers, "I hate my voice." I can totally relate to that. Not all of us are Frank Sinatras but we still have melodic and lyrical ideas to share.
My favorite thing about recording my family members is watching them freak out about their voice on the first playback. I can still recall my own first "answering machine" moments recording into this little pinto bean sized mic that plugged straight into the back of the computer. I wish I still had that thing but it sounded like trash. Windows sound recorder app could only take 15 second of audio at a time so I had to really condense my ideas. I bought one for my brother but he never uses it. Just likes to strum a bit and then quit there. It only took me a few months to buy my first audio interface, an Aardvark Q10. I guess that was the beginning of recording for me. Pretty soon after I was recording my first EP for a band I wasn't in. I didn't know what the hell I was doing so I was panicking like crazy, but it actually turned out so well I wanted to do more.
I'm also astounded how the right or wrong mic can effect my vocal believability on a track. Use the good stuff, folks.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 12, 2016 13:41:31 GMT -6
Jeremy, I sent you a PM, check your messages :-)
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