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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 8, 2016 7:02:18 GMT -6
So I built a pedal last night for a bud, and the build instructions were terrible.
A video said to face the diodes to the black stripe to line up. That's great and all and obvious. The problem is, these diodes had a white stripe on one end and a gray stripe on the other.
The instructions said to line the green stripe up with the line on the board. That still doesn't help.
Anybody ever seen one like that? I'm wondering if that white stripe was supposed to be a "green stripe" and just looks like crap like most resistor colorings?
I know I could go to byoc and ask them, but I can't even get past the captcha because it looks so bad, and now I'm out of attempts to try so I can't join the stupid forum. I'm not a robot I swear!
btw, the pedal works, but this octave fuzz is so over the top fuzzy it's killing all of the sustain. It makes me wonder if I have the diodes in backwards. I am working on getting a picture from the guy. I may fix it for him at lunch before band practice if there's time. That would mean buying another soldering iron from radio shack at lunch, but I feel bad that I sent him on his way without knowing this. It was late, I was tired, and it did still have a pretty damn cool sound..
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 8, 2016 7:19:22 GMT -6
Attached is my insanity Attachments:
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Post by svart on Jun 8, 2016 7:24:11 GMT -6
So I built a pedal last night for a bud, and the build instructions were terrible.
A video said to face the diodes to the black stripe to line up. That's great and all and obvious. The problem is, these diodes had a white stripe on one end and a gray stripe on the other.
The instructions said to line the green stripe up with the line on the board. That still doesn't help.
Anybody ever seen one like that? I'm wondering if that white stripe was supposed to be a "green stripe" and just looks like crap like most resistor colorings?
I know I could go to byoc and ask them, but I can't even get past the captcha because it looks so bad, and now I'm out of attempts to try so I can't join the stupid forum. I'm not a robot I swear!
btw, the pedal works, but this octave fuzz is so over the top fuzzy it's killing all of the sustain. It makes me wonder if I have the diodes in backwards. I am working on getting a picture from the guy. I may fix it for him at lunch before band practice if there's time. That would mean buying another soldering iron from radio shack at lunch, but I feel bad that I sent him on his way without knowing this. It was late, I was tired, and it did still have a pretty damn cool sound..
Any pictures? I've put diodes in backwards, sure. I've never seen one with multiple stripes though. Green stripes tend to be germanium diodes of some ancient era. Putting the diodes in backwards could mean something, but we'd need to know the circuit first. Sometimes they are in series with the signal flow, in which case might not change much if there were two in parallel and both were backwards. Same goes for shunting to ground. However, if there were two in parallel and you put both facing the same polarity direction, you'd have a significantly different distortion profile. So if you could post a schematic/link and some pics, that would help out. EDIT: Nevermind, you posted a pic as I typed this.. |
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Post by svart on Jun 8, 2016 7:27:34 GMT -6
I see! I've never seen diodes with two bands like that. I'd still bet the dark band is cathode, meaning you have it right according to the silkscreen. If you look closely you can see the "pellet" which is the actual semiconductor disc inside. It's on the dark band end, which tells me that it's the cathode end, and you have them placed correctly. The other option is to use your DMM with the diode setting and verify that the dark band is indeed the cathode. |
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 8, 2016 7:35:23 GMT -6
I feel a little less crazy, thank you.
And now I know there is a diode option on my DMM! I learn something new every day!
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Post by svart on Jun 8, 2016 7:39:54 GMT -6
I feel a little less crazy, thank you. And I know there is a diode option on my DMM! I learn something new every day! Another thing to do is with the DMM diode setting, you can tell what the forward voltage is. Germanium diodes have a slightly softer knee, but they also have a lower forward voltage, which means they will start clipping sooner/lower volume, which might be why you think it's distorting more than it should.. You could switch to LEDs or silicon diodes and get a higher forward voltage, but a different clipping profile. Some folks mix and match LEDs, silicon diodes and germaniums for interesting clipping/distortion profiles. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 8, 2016 7:48:59 GMT -6
I have a pair of Germ diodes from BYOC here. I just snapped some pics if that's helpful. imgur.com/a/UKbVX |
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 8, 2016 7:57:55 GMT -6
I have a pair of Germ diodes from BYOC here. I just snapped some pics if that's helpful. imgur.com/a/UKbVXtwo stripes on yours as well... I've just never seen diodes with 2 stripes, but I'm also not the most knowing guy in the world here!
It's confusing when they say to put the green stripe with the line, and then there isn't a green stripe at all.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 8, 2016 8:18:27 GMT -6
The description for my diodes says - Clear glass body with black, blue, red, or green stripe. It looks to me like I have a blue (for sure) and a grey (looks black in the pictures). I'm assuming the blue is the one they're referring to on mine.
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 9, 2016 11:17:23 GMT -6
So maybe it is supposed to be backwards? It just doesn't sound right to him through any guitars, we were hoping a strat would help. I just got the pedal back from the guy and will be flipping the diodes and trying it again. Is there a big issue with doing that in these little 9v pedals?
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Post by svart on Jun 9, 2016 11:48:24 GMT -6
So maybe it is supposed to be backwards? It just doesn't sound right to him through any guitars, we were hoping a strat would help. I just got the pedal back from the guy and will be flipping the diodes and trying it again. Is there a big issue with doing that in these little 9v pedals? Nah shouldn't hurt anything, but it'll likely sound very different. Without some kind of specs on the diodes, it's impossible to tell the reverse breakdown voltage without testing. It's likely to be much, much higher and therefor will need much higher levels to clip. Honestly, I'd pull the diodes and see how the sound is through the pedal without the diodes, and see if it sounds reasonably OK or not.. You could have always made an error elsewhere too. |
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 9, 2016 12:12:50 GMT -6
So maybe it is supposed to be backwards? It just doesn't sound right to him through any guitars, we were hoping a strat would help. I just got the pedal back from the guy and will be flipping the diodes and trying it again. Is there a big issue with doing that in these little 9v pedals? Nah shouldn't hurt anything, but it'll likely sound very different. Without some kind of specs on the diodes, it's impossible to tell the reverse breakdown voltage without testing. It's likely to be much, much higher and therefor will need much higher levels to clip. Honestly, I'd pull the diodes and see how the sound is through the pedal without the diodes, and see if it sounds reasonably OK or not.. You could have always made an error elsewhere too. The circuit is pretty simple, and the whole point is that it's an octave fuzz, so it needs a decent amount of signal. The problem when playing it now is that when you hit a note, the sustain is gone, and it's so over the top distorted that it kinda kills the whole fun of it. and I'm a guy who knows fuzz, I've got a collection of big muff's, and compared it directly to my 1978 big muff, that thing sustains for days and just crushes on a power chord.
I really think that white end is supposed to be blue/green/coloured like jcoutu1 showed his was blue. Which would mean I already have it backwards and the voltage is alreadying coming thorugh way too high, which would explain the choking?
I guess we'll see, hopefully I can pull them without dismantling the whole shebang.
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Post by svart on Jun 9, 2016 13:19:37 GMT -6
Nah shouldn't hurt anything, but it'll likely sound very different. Without some kind of specs on the diodes, it's impossible to tell the reverse breakdown voltage without testing. It's likely to be much, much higher and therefor will need much higher levels to clip. Honestly, I'd pull the diodes and see how the sound is through the pedal without the diodes, and see if it sounds reasonably OK or not.. You could have always made an error elsewhere too. The circuit is pretty simple, and the whole point is that it's an octave fuzz, so it needs a decent amount of signal. The problem when playing it now is that when you hit a note, the sustain is gone, and it's so over the top distorted that it kinda kills the whole fun of it. and I'm a guy who knows fuzz, I've got a collection of big muff's, and compared it directly to my 1978 big muff, that thing sustains for days and just crushes on a power chord.
I really think that white end is supposed to be blue/green/coloured like jcoutu1 showed his was blue. Which would mean I already have it backwards and the voltage is alreadying coming thorugh way too high, which would explain the choking?
I guess we'll see, hopefully I can pull them without dismantling the whole shebang.
You really need to use the diode test on your DMM to determine the right direction of the diode. Swapping things around is really just analogous to guessing. |
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Post by svart on Jun 9, 2016 13:42:44 GMT -6
Nah shouldn't hurt anything, but it'll likely sound very different. Without some kind of specs on the diodes, it's impossible to tell the reverse breakdown voltage without testing. It's likely to be much, much higher and therefor will need much higher levels to clip. Honestly, I'd pull the diodes and see how the sound is through the pedal without the diodes, and see if it sounds reasonably OK or not.. You could have always made an error elsewhere too. The circuit is pretty simple, and the whole point is that it's an octave fuzz, so it needs a decent amount of signal. The problem when playing it now is that when you hit a note, the sustain is gone, and it's so over the top distorted that it kinda kills the whole fun of it. and I'm a guy who knows fuzz, I've got a collection of big muff's, and compared it directly to my 1978 big muff, that thing sustains for days and just crushes on a power chord.
I really think that white end is supposed to be blue/green/coloured like jcoutu1 showed his was blue. Which would mean I already have it backwards and the voltage is alreadying coming thorugh way too high, which would explain the choking?
I guess we'll see, hopefully I can pull them without dismantling the whole shebang.
Also, the diodes are in series with the output of the transformer in this design. They are acting as rectifiers, not clippers, which gives it the octave effect (they are essentially doubling the frequency of the signal by rectifying both the positive and negative portions of the signal into a single positive going signal. If the diodes were "backwards" you'd effectively only shift the signal into the negative going portion.. Exactly the same sound would ensue.. I'd still wager that you might have something else wrong, or that it's simply the sound of the unit. It does get a lot of reviews as "extreme fuzz", "no definition in higher registers", etc.. |
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 9, 2016 14:00:45 GMT -6
I agree with you on all of these points. I just want it to sound like the pedal they have on the video of their website, so he stops thinking I messed it up. I have a feeling that's how it sounds. I'll switch it, play it, record it if my wife lets me spend three nights in a row in my dungeon with my soldering iron and my easy listening romantic ballad request radio. it won't take long, I wouldn't think. (famous last words)
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 10, 2016 11:19:36 GMT -6
so to finish this out, I went through the pedal, and reflowed any hole from the top any that didn't look like it wasfully through the hole. I then flipped the diode, and svart was right, the same sound ensued haha! I understand now. Since it was the same thing, I agree it's the sound of the pedal. I put it behind a big muff, and a boost and it gave a better tone. I alsoput itin front of some amp overdrive (orange crush 10, surprisingly tasty, btw) and italso was much much better. Less cutting out. I really think that the diodes used are just more than he was expecting it to push,and suggested what you said, using LED/diode mixture or something. We're going to usethat as a test pedal to create a custom pedal, maybe even drill another switch onto the top to switch diode/led/both through the circuit! |
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