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Post by sozocaps on May 10, 2016 9:08:01 GMT -6
I have not owned a real tube neumann but I am getting an excessive noise floor on this mic. Sounds good but noise floor seems to be a little bit difficult when I start processing the vox track. My Neumann u87 is dead silent and seems to have much more gain so I do not have to crank up the preamp gain so much.
Are tube mic's much noisier then solid state ?
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Post by Ward on May 10, 2016 9:22:06 GMT -6
I have had that experience with my Neumann-gefell UM57 but not any other tube mic I own. My Telefunken Copperhead is actually one of the quietest microphones I own.... and there'a bout 85 of them thar microphones now.
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Post by EmRR on May 10, 2016 9:30:01 GMT -6
Any noise in a socketed tube is easily the socket connection. Exercising to clean contacts is always first check before deciding there's a tube or other problem. This should really be seasonal maintenance with most tube gear.
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Post by Ward on May 10, 2016 10:07:52 GMT -6
I should note that since Shannon fixed my NG UM57, it has almost NO noise any more.
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Post by sozocaps on May 10, 2016 12:16:20 GMT -6
I was SERIOUSLY thinking of sending this out to Shannon... I am just not happy with this mic
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on May 10, 2016 12:23:38 GMT -6
I was SERIOUSLY thinking of sending this out to Shannon... I am just not happy with this mic Never a bad idea to let Dr Microphone see what he can do!
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Post by tonycamphd on May 10, 2016 15:11:42 GMT -6
it shouldn't be noisy, make sure if you exercise anything in there, you unplug it, tube power kills! What kind of mic is this? can you take a picture of the guts and post? maybe a sound file?
here's a real u47 and a diy, the diy is much quieter and sounds better overall imo diy 47 https%3A//soundcloud.com/tonycamp/neumannu47jkmku47 Neumann 47 https%3A//soundcloud.com/tonycamp/neumannu47jkmku47-2
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Post by tonycamphd on May 10, 2016 15:13:33 GMT -6
I was SERIOUSLY thinking of sending this out to Shannon... I am just not happy with this mic I'm not sure throwing good money after bad? If it's a clam, Shan can on polish a turd so much, pics and a sound file please 8)
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Post by gouge on May 10, 2016 16:08:25 GMT -6
I use a jolly modified ntk. It is a beautiful mic and is quiet.
Michael fixes any mics with issues as part of the warranty.
I have a bunch of jolly mics and they are all excellent and get used on every session.
I'm currently looking at getting some more.
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Post by drbill on May 10, 2016 16:21:07 GMT -6
Send it back to Michael. He will take care of it. Something's wrong. There's no way it could (should) be noisier than a U87 - which is not the quietest mic around.....
BTW, I've had his U47 emu (1080 I think) up against Frank Sinatra's mic at Capitol, and it was quieter than the U48 and sounded virtually the same. Great mic.
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Post by sozocaps on May 10, 2016 16:43:01 GMT -6
I would like to keep this mic and have Shannon make a 251 or get a 251 clone... So ok, great, I'll send it back to him for a check up. I never really used it but lets see...
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Post by sozocaps on May 10, 2016 17:24:10 GMT -6
it shouldn't be noisy, make sure if you exercise anything in there, you unplug it, tube power kills! What kind of mic is this? can you take a picture of the guts and post? maybe a sound file? here's a real u47 and a diy, the diy is much quieter and sounds better overall imo diy 47 https%3A//soundcloud.com/tonycamp/neumannu47jkmku47Neumann 47 https%3A//soundcloud.com/tonycamp/neumannu47jkmku47-2Mine is 50% more noisy
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Post by Ward on May 10, 2016 19:38:44 GMT -6
I was SERIOUSLY thinking of sending this out to Shannon... I am just not happy with this mic I'm not sure throwing good money after bad? If it's a clam, Shan can on polish a turd so much, pics and a sound file please 8) Tony, you've met Shannon right? Dude would rip out the guts, test every part, replicate or procure original new old stock parts of everything from germaniums to resisters to paper in oil caps to VF14Ms he has hidden somewhere to recreating capsules and buffing out every dent on that turd until it was turd-no-more. If there's ANY one who can resurrect a microphone, it is St. Shannon. He, the 13th apostle of our Lord.
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Post by tonycamphd on May 10, 2016 22:34:39 GMT -6
I'm not sure throwing good money after bad? If it's a clam, Shan can on polish a turd so much, pics and a sound file please 8) Tony, you've met Shannon right? Dude would rip out the guts, test every part, replicate or procure original new old stock parts of everything from germaniums to resisters to paper in oil caps to VF14Ms he has hidden somewhere to recreating capsules and buffing out every dent on that turd until it was turd-no-more. If there's ANY one who can resurrect a microphone, it is St. Shannon. He, the 13th apostle of our Lord. I talked to Shan tonight, he's my pal, and he's great, but there is nothing he or anyone can do to that mic to get it to sound like a real U47, I have a GT2B body that has an actual U47 (MK47)circuit in it, and it still isn't quite there, it's hard enough to get a spitting image clone to jive like a real U47, let alone a GT2B with a chinese k47 capsule swap and the inner headbasket mesh removed, in fact, the removal of the inner mesh takes it farther away tonally considering a U47 has 3 layers of mesh. Take a listen to file 3, and then compare it to the first file I posted above, it's not even approaching the vicinity to my ears. www.oktavamodshop.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_46&products_id=147btw, the U48 in his samples sounds like a U47, much better than his mod, but still not as nice as the sample above to my ears, ymmv
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Post by gouge on May 11, 2016 4:17:27 GMT -6
that's just nuts tony,
you want us to listen to different takes in different rooms of different musicians different preamps, daws etc and draw some type of comparison.
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Post by Ward on May 11, 2016 5:46:30 GMT -6
that's just nuts tony, you want us to listen to different takes in different rooms of different musicians different preamps, daws etc and draw some type of comparison. Yeah, sorry... I'm having a 'Whiskey Tango Foxtrot' moment on that one also. No offense.
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Post by Ward on May 11, 2016 5:47:15 GMT -6
Tony, you've met Shannon right? Dude would rip out the guts, test every part, replicate or procure original new old stock parts of everything from germaniums to resisters to paper in oil caps to VF14Ms he has hidden somewhere to recreating capsules and buffing out every dent on that turd until it was turd-no-more. If there's ANY one who can resurrect a microphone, it is St. Shannon. He, the 13th apostle of our Lord. I talked to Shan tonight, he's my pal, and he's great, but there is nothing he or anyone can do to that mic to get it to sound like a real U47, I have a GT2B body that has an actual U47 (MK47)circuit in it, and it still isn't quite there, it's hard enough to get a spitting image clone to jive like a real U47, let alone a GT2B with a chinese k47 capsule swap and the inner headbasket mesh removed, in fact, the removal of the inner mesh takes it farther away tonally considering a U47 has 3 layers of mesh. Take a listen to file 3, and then compare it to the first file I posted above, it's not even approaching the vicinity to my ears. www.oktavamodshop.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_46&products_id=147btw, the U48 in his samples sounds like a U47, much better than his mod, but still not as nice as the sample above to my ears, ymmv Oh sorry, did you miss this part: "Tony, you've met Shannon right? Dude would rip out the guts, test every part, replicate or procure original new old stock parts of everything from germaniums to resisters to paper in oil caps to VF14Ms he has hidden somewhere to recreating capsules and buffing out every dent on that turd until it was turd-no-more. If there's ANY one who can resurrect a microphone, it is St. Shannon. He, the 13th apostle of our Lord."
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Post by gouge on May 11, 2016 6:02:09 GMT -6
The other 12 are in Australia.
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Post by Ward on May 11, 2016 7:10:03 GMT -6
The other 12 are in Australia. Touché
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Post by tonycamphd on May 11, 2016 7:50:16 GMT -6
that's just nuts tony, you want us to listen to different takes in different rooms of different musicians different preamps, daws etc and draw some type of comparison. really? just compare his own compressed and verbed (talk about nutz) samples #2 to #3, before you go calling me nutz, I also don't need an identical chain to derive some basic characteristics out of a mic, truth is all 3 of those samples are weak to my ears, that is my larger point, i was just throwing a mic in front of a guitar in my samples, with nothing but a preamp in front of it, shows how woefully inadequate his examples truly are, a 47 substitute? really? if i was selling mods as a U47 equiv, i'd have posted some accurate stunners up there...
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 11, 2016 7:54:53 GMT -6
that's just nuts tony, you want us to listen to different takes in different rooms of different musicians different preamps, daws etc and draw some type of comparison. really? what's nutz is that guys say joker mics that don't sound at all like U47's, "sound like U47's", listen to the damn samples before you go calling me nutz dude, I'm sorry you need the the hand holding of an identical chain and takes to derive character out of a mic, but I don't. Hey Tony, you are the guy that always chooses to not comment on shootouts because you weren't in the room and you can't tell anything from a shootout without being there right?
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Post by tonycamphd on May 11, 2016 8:56:45 GMT -6
really? what's nutz is that guys say joker mics that don't sound at all like U47's, "sound like U47's", listen to the damn samples before you go calling me nutz dude, I'm sorry you need the the hand holding of an identical chain and takes to derive character out of a mic, but I don't. Hey Tony, you are the guy that always chooses to not comment on shootouts because you weren't in the room and you can't tell anything from a shootout without being there right? It's not blacknwhite, I don't generally comment on shootouts because A. there usually done poorly imo, and B. I like to get things in my own hands to make judgements on them, with my OWN base as a benchmark reference. Joly has samples #1, #2, #3 side by side, I hate the fact that he imbedded them with casio techno pop, compression and reverb, as a distraction from pure mic tone, but there it is..., plus, like i said(and ward missed), I have a GT2B (the joly 47 body by a different name), with an actual legitimate circuit clone U47 (MK#47) in it, with a spec BV8 tranny, and blueline M7 cap in it, again, from personal experience, it doesn't sound like a U47, it just doesn't, but it sounds good, and for sure much better than that congested Joly sample #3, even against his own sample #2, which does have characteristics of the 47, AFAIK Joly puts in his chinese MJ47 capsule, and pulls out an inner layer of headbasket, then swaps some electronics... maybe, from direct experience, it ain't gonna get you a U47, and neither will anyone else, I could give a ratz ass what anyone does to it, you cannot to turn a GT2B bodied mic into a U47 for any amount of $, let alone $300! seriously, it's a pipe dream, dudes need to stop talking, and start listening, i have a host of real and clone U47's at my disposal, anyone who wants to come over to put their Joly 47 to the test against these is totally welcome to do so, infact PLEASE DO! I love doing that kinda sheet! BTW, i'm sure Shann would attest to the fact that he can only do so much to a sub par design..., the CV-4 does indeed take a huge jump in Quality when he's done with it, but that is also a $1,400 mic, not a $200 GT2B.
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Post by drbill on May 11, 2016 9:26:54 GMT -6
I like to have stuff in my studio or a studio I know for comparisons. Back a few years ago, there was a mastering guy in LA - sorry, forgot his name - with big credits who kept raving about the joly U47. So I booked some time at Capitol - where I worked quite often and where I knew they had a great example of a 48.
Those mics - the Sinatra U48 and the Joly UK47 (built off a 1080 with NOS tube) DID sound remarkably the same. I don't care how he did it, whether it looks like a 47, what chinese guts he tossed to make it his, how many layers the head basket had, whether or not he sourced ancient NOS components, or if the tube is different. The final results are all that matters to me. He never claimed it was a "clone" of a U47, only that it sounded like one.
That particular day, the only VINTAGE mic on that shootout that was magical and which I would have purchased immediately if they would sell it and if I had the cash (and I had em all up) was a beautiful M249. It definitely had a vintage sparkle that was like the ever unsearchable unicorn pixie dust everyone likes to wax eloquent over. But Franks U48 and Michael's U47? I could have used either and punched in, and it wouldn't have made a difference to me.
All the huffing and puffing about specs, parts, vintage vs chinese, blah blah blah means nothing to me. Especially by someone who wasn't there but who wants to tear down the reputation or ears of those who were. It's easy to throw stones when no one else is around. Different when you're standing shoulder to shoulder with other great engineers trying to parse the details and differences of two mics standing up against each other. I'm not a snob with mics. Many is the time I chose a $300 mic over a classic vintage mic because it suited the source better. (Case in point, the SM7 of all things)
My suggestion is probably the same as Tony's - if these things matter to you, get the mics and shoot em out yourself. The differences are way smaller in person (generally, but there are exceptions) than people make em out to be on the great internet. I had two GREAT engineers there with far more experience than me confirm my thoughts. Internet speculation and ganging on does not sway my thoughts or conclusions.
My thoughts for the OP are the same. Send the mic back and get it fixed for free. Then make your own decision about how to proceed.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 11, 2016 9:31:54 GMT -6
Hey Tony, you are the guy that always chooses to not comment on shootouts because you weren't in the room and you can't tell anything from a shootout without being there right? It's not blacknwhite, I don't generally comment on shootouts because A. there usually done poorly imo, and B. I like to get things in my own hands to make judgements on them, with my OWN base as a benchmark reference. Joly has samples #1, #2, #3 side by side, I hate the fact that he imbedded them with casio techno pop, compression and reverb, as a distraction from pure mic tone, but there it is..., plus, like i said(and ward missed), I have a GT2B (the joly 47 body by a different name), with an actual legitimate circuit clone U47 (MK#47) in it, with a spec BV8 tranny, and blueline M7 cap in it, again, from personal experience, it doesn't sound like a U47, it just doesn't, but it sounds good, and for sure much better than that congested Joly sample #3, even against his own sample #2, which does have characteristics of the 47, AFAIK Joly puts in his chinese MJ47 capsule, and pulls out an inner layer of headbasket, then swaps some electronics... maybe, from direct experience, it ain't gonna get you a U47, and neither will anyone else, I could give a ratz ass what anyone does to it, you cannot to turn a GT2B bodied mic into a U47 for any amount of $, let alone $300! seriously, it's a pipe dream, dudes need to stop talking, and start listening, i have a host of real and clone U47's at my disposal, anyone who wants to come over to put their Joly 47 to the test against these is totally welcome to do so, infact PLEASE DO! I love doing that kinda sheet! BTW, i'm sure Shann would attest to the fact that he can only do so much to a sub par design..., the CV-4 does indeed take a huge jump in Quality when he's done with it, but that is also a $1,400 mic, not a $200 GT2B. Just semantics here, but, isn't the MK47 actually different from a real U47? Doesn't this kit use 2 tubes to emulate the real deal? The samples that I've heard are really nice, but to call it "an actual legitimate circuit clone U47" seems like a stretch. All this said, I haven't listened to the Joly samples, but highly doubt that this $300 mic or whatever will be close to the real deal in your own space, side to side.
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Post by tonycamphd on May 11, 2016 9:48:23 GMT -6
no offense drbill , but listen to Joly's own files, compare #2(a U48) against, #3(his mic), are you going to tell me #3 sounds anything like the U48? Perhaps Joly should have posted YOUR samples for his pitch? Actually, if you have those samples, please post them, i'd love to hear them! serious! I'd also add that, i'm not tearing anyone down, i'm keeping it real, I build and compare many mics on my own, we have mutual friends that do the same, they and I scrutinize the shit out of everything to the point of a possibly unhealthy obsession haha, I have a stable of self built and tweaked diy, and original mics here, or at my disposal, I will put any of them side by side with any clones claiming equivalence to anything, anytime, i LOVE that shit! if they stand up? then so be it, i'd be thrilled, and i'd buy them in a hot minute. Concerning Joly, all i have is his own (IMO) weak samples to feed my lying ears, which i trust implicitly, when they tell me that something is special, I perk up, but until then, i consider the hyperbole a bit over the top.
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