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Post by indiehouse on Oct 12, 2017 11:43:59 GMT -6
FWIW, I use a Merging Hapi ADA8 for "clean" mic preamp, AD and DA. And if I need to use a clean signal chain at the studio, I use an NPNG or Hanks pre. The Fearn can sound clean, but not in any known way. Its actually the smoothest creamiest one. But honestly, all of my gear sounds better into the AD8. What's your setup like? I mean, this is only 8 channels of AD, right? Are you tracking full bands? Are you using outboard during mixing? Are you limited to just 8 channels of i/o then?
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Post by adamjbrass on Oct 12, 2017 11:51:00 GMT -6
FWIW, I use a Merging Hapi ADA8 for "clean" mic preamp, AD and DA. And if I need to use a clean signal chain at the studio, I use an NPNG or Hanks pre. The Fearn can sound clean, but not in any known way. Its actually the smoothest creamiest one. But honestly, all of my gear sounds better into the AD8. What's your setup like? I mean, this is only 8 channels of AD, right? Are you tracking full bands? Are you using outboard during mixing? Are you limited to just 8 channels of i/o then? At the studio, I have a Mac 8-core with a symphony 64 pcie card, connecting a Symphony I/O mk1 with a AES/EBU on the 8x8 analog i/o card. so from there, I can connect other external AD/DA or digital AES/EBU boxes ontop of my Apogee ADA. Like my Dangerous DBOX DAC input for example. I also have a Merging Hapi for location work, with a Pyramix Laptop -- which I bring into the Studio to use sometimes in varying ways. Each of these units can house AES/EBU units in addition, so I like to swap around the AD units depending on what I am doing. Like I said, I dont have an AD8 right now, but I would love to add one into my collection. I track every kind of music, do some film work, location, video, whatever pays. But my studio is smaller, and never track more than 8 channels at a time, although sometimes I use extra....not often. So this type of patch able setup is nice. If I need more channels I can add them either way, but I don't need it. I just like having the best flavors that fit my taste and needs. I do use outboard gear during mixing, mostly into the Apogee ADA. But With things like the AD8, mixing is so much easier for me.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 12, 2017 11:58:35 GMT -6
I used to really like BLA, years back I had a MOTU 2408 mkii that I had modded by them. The difference was big and well worth the money. Back then their whole business was modding 002's, Motu's, ADA8000's, Alesis units and the like. It was a good business model and was much needed at the time. However, prosumer gear has greatly increased in quality. So much so that its rare to find a cheapo interface that sucks. Most everything on the market these days sounds very decent. So when I see them modding Symphony's, Antelope interfaces etc, I start to really doubt what improvement you're going to hear and weather its worth the money. But I dont know, maybe it is an improvement and maybe for some people its worth it.
Again though, I think the practicality of modding gear has changed significantly over the last 8-10 years. There are so many companies making great and affordable things (Warm Audio, Stam, CAPI, etc) that when ever I price out a mod it usually makes more sense to me to save up just a little more money and buy the real thing (weather it be a clone or original product).
I admit that in some cases it does make a lot of sense to mod gear you already have, or buy pre-modded gear, but the battlefield has definitely changed.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 12, 2017 12:37:07 GMT -6
I used to really like BLA, years back I had a MOTU 2408 mkii that I had modded by them. The difference was big and well worth the money. Back then their whole business was modding 002's, Motu's, ADA8000's, Alesis units and the like. It was a good business model and was much needed at the time. However, prosumer gear has greatly increased in quality. So much so that its rare to find a cheapo interface that sucks. Most everything on the market these days sounds very decent. So when I see them modding Symphony's, Antelope interfaces etc, I start to really doubt what improvement you're going to hear and weather its worth the money. But I dont know, maybe it is an improvement and maybe for some people its worth it. Again though, I think the practicality of modding gear has changed significantly over the last 8-10 years. There are so many companies making great and affordable things (Warm Audio, Stam, CAPI, etc) that when ever I price out a mod it usually makes more sense to me to save up just a little more money and buy the real thing (weather it be a clone or original product). I admit that in some cases it does make a lot of sense to mod gear you already have, or buy pre-modded gear, but the battlefield has definitely changed. Yeah, I wouldn't ever consider modding a Symphony MKII or BF Apollo 16 MKII. Seems crazy to me. I did email those guys to ask why the BF Apollo 16 wasn't listed as a mod. They said no one has ever asked them to mod one.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 12, 2017 14:12:53 GMT -6
What “ mods “ does BLA do to the symphony’s?
So someone asked them to mod a symphony mk2 at some point lol... makes me wonder why or what someone would want to have modded on a mk2 ...
Didn’t the original members of BLA sell the company and now some new guys are now running it? I could be mistaken ...
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 12, 2017 14:29:10 GMT -6
Yes Matt sold it and is now running dizengof audio in Chicago.
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Post by svart on Oct 12, 2017 15:08:01 GMT -6
Back during the GroupDIY heyday, I'm positive there were a lot of "for public use only" type of mods and ideas that ended up as "services" and "products" from BLA and Joly, etc. That's the first reason I would never use them. Second, is of course, the ridiculous prices. Third is the low-quality of the mods. Of course, these are my opinions.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 12, 2017 20:21:06 GMT -6
At some point, they're gonna figure out it's not the gear. But, in the mean time, BLA will take their money. No. Sadly, they're probably not. Or maybe not so sadly. Who needs more incompetents cluttering up an already glutted market?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 12, 2017 21:39:11 GMT -6
At some point, they're gonna figure out it's not the gear. But, in the mean time, BLA will take their money. No. Sadly, they're probably not. Or maybe not so sadly. Who needs more incompetents cluttering up an already glutted market? Damn it John it was those incompetents who paid my rent for years as a gear pimp!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 12, 2017 21:43:52 GMT -6
What “ mods “ does BLA do to the symphony’s? So someone asked them to mod a symphony mk2 at some point lol... makes me wonder why or what someone would want to have modded on a mk2 ... Didn’t the original members of BLA sell the company and now some new guys are now running it? I could be mistaken ... Almost everything is built to a price point and a good tech can find where the bean counters won the battle of which parts ! That
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 13, 2017 10:13:24 GMT -6
Someone said the JCF AD was Class A....The most popular JCF Audio AD unit is the AD8 and it uses no amplifiers at all. I compared this unit to my Symphony and it made me want to break the symphony with a hammer. INSTANT RECORD Making sound. How long has this been out? Aren't the converter chips aging by now, seeing how everyone else is releasing new designs with newer chips?
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 13, 2017 11:26:02 GMT -6
Someone said the JCF AD was Class A....The most popular JCF Audio AD unit is the AD8 and it uses no amplifiers at all. I compared this unit to my Symphony and it made me want to break the symphony with a hammer. INSTANT RECORD Making sound. How long has this been out? Aren't the converter chips aging by now, seeing how everyone else is releasing new designs with newer chips? Would the new chips be pin compatible with the old ones? BTW,. you DO know that "Class A" has to do with amplifier topology and really has nothing at all to do with quality, right?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 13, 2017 11:30:32 GMT -6
Someone said the JCF AD was Class A....The most popular JCF Audio AD unit is the AD8 and it uses no amplifiers at all. I compared this unit to my Symphony and it made me want to break the symphony with a hammer. INSTANT RECORD Making sound. How long has this been out? Aren't the converter chips aging by now, seeing how everyone else is releasing new designs with newer chips? A couple of years, more proof that it's the stuff before and after the chip that matters more than the ever improving chip.
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Post by svart on Oct 13, 2017 11:40:02 GMT -6
If you're a policeman, everyone looks like a threat. If you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you're a cat, everything looks like a toy.
If you ask a modding company if something should be modded, they're going to say YES.
ALL modding companies "see" every piece of equipment as sub-par, needing improvements. They'll tell you that unless you have their mods, that unit is a piece of shit.
Them's the facts of life, man.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 13, 2017 11:42:44 GMT -6
How long has this been out? Aren't the converter chips aging by now, seeing how everyone else is releasing new designs with newer chips? Would the new chips be pin compatible with the old ones? BTW,. you DO know that "Class A" has to do with amplifier topology and really has nothing at all to do with quality, right? Yes, thanks...not sure what you're getting at. I didn't mention anything about Class A.
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Post by adamjbrass on Oct 13, 2017 15:18:48 GMT -6
Someone said the JCF AD was Class A....The most popular JCF Audio AD unit is the AD8 and it uses no amplifiers at all. I compared this unit to my Symphony and it made me want to break the symphony with a hammer. INSTANT RECORD Making sound. How long has this been out? Aren't the converter chips aging by now, seeing how everyone else is releasing new designs with newer chips? Its been around about 5-6 years, Im not sure, but there are a lot more factors at play than just the born on date of the chips, Like the passive-transformer input stage, custom jcf filtering, custom jcf high-isolation flatpack PSU, and also custome jcf "PEP" mode, Once again, there are no amplifers in it. This is one reason why it sounds so good.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 13, 2017 15:38:50 GMT -6
Would the new chips be pin compatible with the old ones? BTW,. you DO know that "Class A" has to do with amplifier topology and really has nothing at all to do with quality, right? Yes, thanks...not sure what you're getting at. I didn't mention anything about Class A. Perhaps I misunderstood - I thought you were talking about modding the old converters with new chips. You were quoting adamjbrass, That was a comment on that quote. The full quote I was commenting on is: Perhaps I was having a senior moment....
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 13, 2017 15:54:45 GMT -6
How long has this been out? Aren't the converter chips aging by now, seeing how everyone else is releasing new designs with newer chips? Its been around about 5-6 years, Im not sure, but there are a lot more factors at play than just the born on date of the chips, Like the passive-transformer input stage, custom jcf filtering, custom jcf high-isolation flatpack PSU, and also custome jcf "PEP" mode, Once again, there are no amplifers in it. This is one reason why it sounds so good. How can you have an active audio device with no amplifiers? There HAS to be a buffer somewhere, usually on both input and output. Maybe not a physically separate device, but it's/they've gotta be there somewhere. Perhaps not on the input with the transformerr coupling, but the output? Unless you're only talking about an A/D converter. And if it's supposed to be "Class A", well, that's an amplifier topology. Unless they're just using "Class A" as an advertising buzz word... Trying to understand this....
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Post by adamjbrass on Oct 13, 2017 17:54:14 GMT -6
John
Its passive
No amplifer
Just transformers
There is no buffer amp
I was explaining why its NOT class A
There are NO amps in it And yes, its an AD converter
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 14, 2017 0:00:39 GMT -6
John Its passive No amplifer Just transformers There is no buffer amp I was explaining why its NOT class A There are NO amps in it And yes, its an AD converter Ah, so! It's essentially 1 big chip, a power supply, and a couple of isolation transformers? What's the number of that chip?
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Post by adamjbrass on Oct 14, 2017 6:14:10 GMT -6
I dunno. I just use the gear
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Post by veggieryan on Oct 16, 2017 1:11:21 GMT -6
The JCF AD8 is the converter you end up getting if you want to sound "like tape" without buying and maintaining a tape machine. It's not based on the latest/greatest chip approach or the highest score on a loopback test approach. Its more of the "if it sounds good, it is good" approach it seems. I sold both of my Symphonies and bought a cheaper DA so I could afford two AD8's. Once I heard a song recorded with them I could not go back. They seem to handle dynamics better than regular converters. There is space, clarity, and smoothness to everything. Things tend to "bloom" on their own. The treble is not harsh or grating like it can be on the lower end converters. There is something magical and indescribable about PEP that has to do with the way that bass gets recorded to tape versus treble. Some kind of time-based effect as I understand it. It's something that adds up when you start stacking the tracks. It sounds very "finished" without the need for lots of EQ or processing... very much what I like about working with tape. At this point if I want to do better I would need to get a tape machine again but now the Zulu is giving me that extra "over the top," "extra vintage" or "extra smooth" tape sound I sometimes want/need. Someday I hope to get a pair of the JCF DA8's as well. As I understand it you can sum the new DA8-T via a cable only into a stereo converter that is somehow unique. I would love to hear it. Looking at my gear I am realizing that pretty much everything I have settled on owning is built by a "one genius guy in his garage" type company... I find that very interesting.
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