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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 30, 2013 19:02:23 GMT -6
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 30, 2013 19:41:44 GMT -6
They said they had "many requests to mod the Symphony. I think BLA has crossed the line on this one. What next? A Burl mod?? They're full of shit.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 30, 2013 19:48:32 GMT -6
JK, BLA won't allow me to post on they're FB page anymore. Can you ask them if they can mod my B-2 for me, please?
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 30, 2013 20:03:58 GMT -6
Hahaha...I wonder if they blocked me? I posted, "Hmmmm...I'm very skeptical"...
They might have jumped the shark on this. I mean, really.
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Post by popmann on Oct 30, 2013 20:08:11 GMT -6
I've always thought they're full of shit. They make people feel better. My opinion....is that almost any LINE LEVEL converter is really good. Yes--the big guns have an advantage, but grand scheme, it's a TINY advantage--particularly at double rate. The line level thing isn't trivial. It's now the exception to the rule on interfaces--save the highest end ones, and old designs.
Burl and JCF--the guys building classA line amps into a converter are a different thing all together. Wonderful thing. But, those aside....it's a game of centimeters. Again--88 or 96k.
I mean....they don't mod the power supply for units....they don't add any analog filtering...they use external clock boxes.
I'll tell you why they mod a Symphony. There's been a HUGE push for conversion in the last few years. Noobs are sold on conversion being THE reason their work doesn't sound like whatever they want to sound like. Despite some HUGE percentage of that stuff having been done with OLD Apogees or Digi192s....so, they buy "the best"....their quality doesn't improve by a particularly tangible amount, so they buy the idea that it can be modded to sound better.
Go listen to stuff done in Nashville to 20bit converters at 48khz in the 90s. Gorgeous. Radar pop/rock stuff in the same time frame.
At some point, they're gonna figure out it's not the gear. But, in the mean time, BLA will take their money.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 30, 2013 20:23:07 GMT -6
I've always thought they're full of shit. They make people feel better. My opinion....is that almost any LINE LEVEL converter is really good. Yes--the big guns have an advantage, but grand scheme, it's a TINY advantage--particularly at double rate. The line level thing isn't trivial. It's now the exception to the rule on interfaces--save the highest end ones, and old designs. Burl and JCF--the guys building classA line amps into a converter are a different thing all together. Wonderful thing. But, those aside....it's a game of centimeters. Again--88 or 96k. I mean....they don't mod the power supply for units....they don't add any analog filtering...they use external clock boxes. I'll tell you why they mod a Symphony. There's been a HUGE push for conversion in the last few years. Noobs are sold on conversion being THE reason their work doesn't sound like whatever they want to sound like. Despite some HUGE percentage of that stuff having been done with OLD Apogees or Digi192s....so, they buy "the best"....their quality doesn't improve by a particularly tangible amount, so they buy the idea that it can be modded to sound better. Go listen to stuff done in Nashville to 20bit converters at 48khz in the 90s. Gorgeous. Radar pop/rock stuff in the same time frame. At some point, they're gonna figure out it's not the gear. But, in the mean time, BLA will take their money. I love this post.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 30, 2013 20:24:51 GMT -6
I agree to a certain extent...it's not NOT important though...I'm not going to go sell my Symphony and replace it with a Focusrite Scarlett...
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 30, 2013 20:27:12 GMT -6
I've always thought they're full of shit. They make people feel better. My opinion....is that almost any LINE LEVEL converter is really good. Yes--the big guns have an advantage, but grand scheme, it's a TINY advantage--particularly at double rate. The line level thing isn't trivial. It's now the exception to the rule on interfaces--save the highest end ones, and old designs. Burl and JCF--the guys building classA line amps into a converter are a different thing all together. Wonderful thing. But, those aside....it's a game of centimeters. Again--88 or 96k. I mean....they don't mod the power supply for units....they don't add any analog filtering...they use external clock boxes. I'll tell you why they mod a Symphony. There's been a HUGE push for conversion in the last few years. Noobs are sold on conversion being THE reason their work doesn't sound like whatever they want to sound like. Despite some HUGE percentage of that stuff having been done with OLD Apogees or Digi192s....so, they buy "the best"....their quality doesn't improve by a particularly tangible amount, so they buy the idea that it can be modded to sound better. Go listen to stuff done in Nashville to 20bit converters at 48khz in the 90s. Gorgeous. Radar pop/rock stuff in the same time frame. At some point, they're gonna figure out it's not the gear. But, in the mean time, BLA will take their money. First of all, you're wrong on just about everything you just said, they do mod the psu, they do filter, and they don't use external word clocks! Secondly, did you ever hear a BLA modded rig? let me answer for you, NO!
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 30, 2013 20:34:52 GMT -6
Someone said it to me when talking about this - don't remember who it was (claim yourself if you recognize this), but I think there were valuable improvements to be made on previous gear. For example, I have no doubt that the BLA mod on the 002 sounds awesome...It had a lot of room for improvement. I just don't think this particular piece has a lot of room for improvement. Sure, if the mod is $100 in cap improvements...sure - but I bet this will cost upwards of $1000. I - for one - couldn't tell the difference in the Apollo mod. Or at least $800 difference.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 30, 2013 20:38:16 GMT -6
I'm a firm believer that modifications can improve most gear, not all. But never has it even entered my mind that my Symphony needed a mod. And would have never dreamed someone would be offering a mod for it. I use it for my DA and couldn't be happier. I mean, is the Symphony lacking somewhere? If so, I'm not hearing it.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 30, 2013 21:03:15 GMT -6
Someone said it to me when talking about this - don't remember who it was (claim yourself if you recognize this), but I think there were valuable improvements to be made on previous gear. For example, I have no doubt that the BLA mod on the 002 sounds awesome...It had a lot of room for improvement. I just don't think this particular piece has a lot of room for improvement. Sure, if the mod is $100 in cap improvements...sure - but I bet this will cost upwards of $1000. I - for one - couldn't tell the difference in the Apollo mod. Or at least $800 difference. Agreed. 002 sucked. I'm sure there was an improvement there.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 30, 2013 21:59:18 GMT -6
The stock 002 did suck, the mod was $1,300.00, as some of you may know, i'm a bit of a DIY guy, i can tell you looking under the hood, it's got PS upgrades, opamp upgrades, caps, clock, the whole shooting match is upped to top notch shit! the apogee has a price point with room for improvement just like any retail piece with a price point, honestly I don't understand the baseless attack against a company i trust? why make such wildly speculative assertions? why don't you listen to, or spend time with the mod, then make a judgement, but to just blindly bash a small company that is of value to many of us, based on your own idea that an improvement is impossible, isn't cool guys, it reminds me of GS. They've managed to turn a lot of gear into some really great stuff, Including the HD 192. I believe there was a quite famous engineer on this forum saying his BLA modded HD 192 was the best sounding conversion he's ever heard, (right when the forum started..?) I talked to the guys at BLA a bit about this apogee mod last week, and the approach they're taking makes complete sense IMV.
Why did i talk to them about it? I am in the market for new conversion myself, primarily because i need 32 I/O's for my 50 channel JW console, I listed my BLA 002 last week on ebay, I was planning on the orion or symphony, I arranged a symphony demo over this past weekend with my buddy Dan from LA. I had absolutely no intention of mentioning this, or my findings at all, because i didn't want to open a can of worms, i know how a lot of guys(most of whom have never heard BLA stuff) love to rail against them as snake oil salesmen?, but I know them as absolutely the opposite, and now after seeing this thread i feel the need to report my findings...
As i mentioned, i just put my BLA 002 on ebay last week, I pulled the auction after the comparison... my 96k/32 sessions in pro tools, 8 outs summed in my smaller Jim Williams modded Soundcraft Delta 200 sounded smaller and less 3D coming from the symphony as compared to the BLA 002, the high end on the 002 was brow squintingly smoother! as in a hard to believe..."really??" I honestly didn't expect what i got, it wasn't even close, and i'm not really sure what i'm going to do at this point...I need more I/0's, but there is no doubt the BLA 002 is a badass that will stand toe to toe with anything.
BTW, my sig 002 has the FM clock fwiw
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 30, 2013 22:40:59 GMT -6
I think you're completely overreacting.
And btw - the "famous producer" is an engineer/writer that had a number 1 Country hit. He owns it and he's entitled to his opinion. I've heard DA playback from it and it didn't strike me as God's gift to humanity.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 31, 2013 7:23:11 GMT -6
I can tell you first hand Tony that the Symphony I/O is stellar conversion. Your wise to look this direction to feed a console. This is what I do with it. I could also tell you to get one and try it. My bet is, you won't feel like it needs a mod.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 31, 2013 11:23:52 GMT -6
I can tell you first hand Tony that the Symphony I/O is stellar conversion. Your wise to look this direction to feed a console. This is what I do with it. I could also tell you to get one and try it. My bet is, you won't feel like it needs a mod. Hi Cowboy, here's my quote from from a few posts up yesterday concerning a demo of the symphony As i mentioned, i just put my BLA 002 on ebay last week, I pulled the auction after the comparison... my 96k/32 sessions in pro tools, 8 outs summed in my smaller Jim Williams modded Soundcraft Delta 200 sounded smaller and less 3D coming from the symphony as compared to the BLA 002, the high end on the 002 was brow squintingly smoother! as in a hard to believe..."really??" I honestly didn't expect what i got, it wasn't even close, and i'm not really sure what i'm going to do at this point...I need more I/0's, but there is no doubt the BLA 002 is a badass that will stand toe to toe with anything.
BTW, my sig 002 has the FM clock fwiw
Sorry i over reacted, but i'm friendly with a bunch of guys at BLA, i think they do great work and are well intended. Keep in mind, i didn't start this thread, and had no intention of mentioning any of my experiences, as i know people get really protective of what the use, but i got upset about people calling friends FOS, so i reacted.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 31, 2013 11:59:42 GMT -6
A used 002 costs about $200...The FM Mod $1350...I'm sure it sounds fantastic...That's a good deal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2013 17:08:33 GMT -6
no one mentions the drivers and zero-latency mixing software that come along with the gear. Apogee Maestro > any proTools Driver any day. I need about 8 hands to count the number of times i needed to restart the computer at my buddy's studio who had a 002 just to listen to a song in iTunes thru his 002, while Logic was running. I'll never buy protools hardware solely for that lack of ease-of-use. There's a headache factor that no one thinks about, which should be considered when looking at these BLA mods of Avid hardware or other hardware.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2013 17:30:15 GMT -6
I read the comments on that pic. the head engineer over at Apogee chimed in and chewed them out lol
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 1, 2013 17:46:46 GMT -6
Oh wow. What did he say?
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 1, 2013 17:54:09 GMT -6
Dang, Charles, you were pretty harsh on them. Hey - if somebody wants to buy an "upgrade", then I say more power to them.
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 1, 2013 18:04:44 GMT -6
My protools is as solid as a rock, here's a gem for you, from the guy who designed the symphony! This just maybe the stupidest line ever stated in the history of pro audio, and had to make the big wigs at apogee shutter? You be the judge. see the 7th line down about analog tape and drums lol! tapeop.com/interviews/btg/51/lucas-van-der-mee/again, head to head my BLA 002 beat the apogee handily IMO
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 1, 2013 18:07:16 GMT -6
Dang, Charles, you were pretty harsh on them. Hey - if somebody wants to buy an "upgrade", then I say more power to them. what did he say? got a link? edit, never mind, i found it. Geez Chuck, did you ever consider maybe the PT rig you were working on had a conflict with Logic? wouldn't be the first time. I have no problems with my rig what so ever, i CANNOT listen to itunes through it, but i don't listen to iTunes because the quality is horrible...so i don't care. Also, latency is not an issue as far as i know, and again, the mods those guys provide are killer IMO, and they also make one of the best stand alone converters period, called the White Sparrow that is unreal good. None of us have heard the apogee mod yet, but I would bet money, if you used a modded symphony, against your stocker, it would sound better, if only marginally? Cant know yet, so...
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Nov 1, 2013 18:20:58 GMT -6
Dang, Charles, you were pretty harsh on them. Hey - if somebody wants to buy an "upgrade", then I say more power to them. what did he say? got a link? Easy, Tony. Breath..
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 1, 2013 18:22:47 GMT -6
what did he say? got a link? Easy, Tony. Breath.. lol! funny, i'm fine
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 1, 2013 18:29:36 GMT -6
Myself and Sir Charles are northeastern DIY bro's(i'm an old transplant to cali), i'm going back east for a month over Xmass and new years, i was thinking of meeting up with Chuck and maybe Martin B for a beer in the city??
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