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Post by indiehouse on Mar 1, 2016 11:27:15 GMT -6
I'm starting to worry that you're right, Matt. These things might be too good. Mixing is HARD on these speakers because it seems there are hundreds more decisions to make. I miss the ease of my JBLs. For what it's worth, I think that might be the first time I've heard the Amphions described as being too good. I've heard other monitors described that way, where you get lost in the detail they present, but I've not heard that about the Amphions. Someone described them as not excelling at any one particular thing, but a nice balance between all aspects of a great mixing speaker. I think that's about right. I've had the ATC's, and they are way more detailed in the mid-range than the Amphions. I've had Spiral Groove's, and they provided way more transient information than the Amphions. It took me almost 3 weeks before I had my 'ah-ha' moment with them. Then I started to understand them. Also, don't know if you got the chance to demo the 15's, but they present in a different way. Much more present and forward. A true near-field mixing experience. I've had both. The 18's were great, but ultimately too 'relaxed', for lack of a better word. The 15's punch more.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 1, 2016 12:14:25 GMT -6
I'm starting to worry that you're right, Matt. These things might be too good. Mixing is HARD on these speakers because it seems there are hundreds more decisions to make. I miss the ease of my JBLs. Herrbie , no such thing as to good, it's learning what they do wrong and right. Start with stuff you know, but often you learn that you didn't really know those tracks. Listen to Raw tracks you have recorded, figure out what they are doing right and wrong. Remember, you don't listen to speakers, you listen through speakers. You have to learn them, this is why you find so many old pros keep the same reference around forever, they know them, it's what makes them work faster and better. You have to find the speaker that you can work with This is why even though I might add a new near field to the collection I won't get rid of my Quested 3 ways will be here until I learn the near fields like the back of my hand. That all said what Don said really reminded me of what I remember hearing at JK's I like the Amphion's but found them more euphonic than ATC, Quested or ProAc. They are great speakers, but they reminded me a lot of Genelec 10 series, I owned 1029's and later 1030's for years and I find my F11a's to still play in that ballpark. I'm not a fan of digital Amps so I think an Adcom or Bryston would be a better match than the Amphion Amps ( really think I'd like the Amphion speakers with a Bedini 100/100 if my my audio memory still serves me) . still I Think the ATC SCM20's are my next must have speaker.
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Post by ragan on Mar 1, 2016 13:13:33 GMT -6
I'm starting to worry that you're right, Matt. These things might be too good. Mixing is HARD on these speakers because it seems there are hundreds more decisions to make. I miss the ease of my JBLs. I wouldn't give up yet, Herbie. You've been rocking the JBL's for a good while! Gotta get used to these. I think the above suggestion to really listen critically to your favorite tunes for awhile is a good one.
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 1, 2016 13:13:41 GMT -6
My Mackie Hr824's will never leave my bridge, I did change my mind on using more than one set though, in the end I'll have pro Ac customs as my main near fields, 824's, krk6's, Maudio BM8's, and the JW Daytons.... 5 sets! One extreme to the other lol
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Post by popmann on Mar 1, 2016 13:26:31 GMT -6
so, first impression the kick and bass are wrong. There's really nothing else that bugs me. Fix that, and it'll sound better than past work, IMO.
The kick dynamically changes tone in a weird way--it's really thin and attacky in the verse....then fills out in the chorus, likely when a limiter is clipping the attacks off? The bass guitar is too low, but really--I would fix the kick consistency....then find where the bass need to be and potentially how it needs to be reshaped.
I really think I was lucky to start mixing in a time where lookahead limiters didn't exist and we couldn't afford enough compressors to be putting them on busses. I often think people are given a bit too much rope and wonder how they get all hung up. Bypass them all. Then without doing anything else, make a list of what you think is "wrong" without the buss compressors/limiters. Try to fix those closer to the source.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 1, 2016 14:38:35 GMT -6
All good stuff guys thx!
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Post by jazznoise on Mar 1, 2016 15:04:34 GMT -6
Sounding better man! I think the comments on the kicks are fair though, it's got too much attack. Maybe it's a case of trying to put more "tone" in the 150-500 area, but currently it's too clicky.
You brought up the snare parts, but I notice the sidesticks are still very quiet. Are the drums sequenced or recorded?
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 1, 2016 15:11:21 GMT -6
Hey Cowboy, post up the raw tracks and let everyone post a mix of how they want to hear it? that'd be fun no?
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Post by jazznoise on Mar 1, 2016 15:23:34 GMT -6
Hey Cowboy, post up the raw tracks and let everyone post a mix of how they want to hear it? that'd be fun no? Yeah, please actually! I don't have anything on my mix schedule for another few weeks at this rate.
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Post by wiz on Mar 1, 2016 15:45:59 GMT -6
There is a lot of clarity in there.. which I reckon is a really good thing....
Might just take you a while to get the hang of them... can't offer any other advice than whats already been said....
Perhaps only, to remix a couple of tunes..
cheers
Wiz
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 1, 2016 15:55:17 GMT -6
Hey Cowboy, post up the raw tracks and let everyone post a mix of how they want to hear it? that'd be fun no? I can do that! That would actually be quite helpful to me. I'll bounce out the raw tracks tonight with no processing. I will bounce the fx sends as stereo tracks so you guys can blend them in to taste if you want. This will work good because I mixed this ITB not through the console.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 1, 2016 16:31:25 GMT -6
I'm starting to worry that you're right, Matt. These things might be too good. Mixing is HARD on these speakers because it seems there are hundreds more decisions to make. I miss the ease of my JBLs. I think there is no reason to worry. If you know your room is not the issue in this case it will take time to learn the monitors. I use the G 8040 and last year a pair of the early 1978 NS10M was given to me. It took me 1 month to understand what they can do for me. Now I mix on both ones 50/50 or 60/50... I stop mixing if I have the feel its in shape on both systems. That helped a lot and my mastering geek was happy too. May it is a good idea to use your old ones and the new ones. In this case you learn very fast what the new monitors are good for.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 1, 2016 18:37:32 GMT -6
I find these speakers not very pleasing to listen to unless it's something recorded VERY well like that Gregory Porter record. Then they are stunning because of the acute detail. But I'll tell you brothers, they sure make a hack like me shrink up on playback. But not just me, a lot of music that I once listened to regularly sounds fairly bad on them. The old Garth Brooks stuff?? Oh boy...
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 1, 2016 19:02:54 GMT -6
I find these speakers not very pleasing to listen to unless it's something recorded VERY well like that Gregory Porter record. Then they are stunning because of the acute detail. But I'll tell you brothers, they sure make a hack like me shrink up on playback. But not just me, a lot of music that I once listened to regularly sounds fairly bad on them. The old Garth Brooks stuff?? Oh boy... Yeah that's why my monitors are not my primary listening speakers!
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 1, 2016 19:38:25 GMT -6
I find these speakers not very pleasing to listen to unless it's something recorded VERY well like that Gregory Porter record. Then they are stunning because of the acute detail. But I'll tell you brothers, they sure make a hack like me shrink up on playback. But not just me, a lot of music that I once listened to regularly sounds fairly bad on them. The old Garth Brooks stuff?? Oh boy... On crap monitors, something thats recorded/mixed great, will sound better than something recorded/mixed mehhhh.... IME the Gregory Porter sounds great on everything, if those monitors can reveal the extent of its quality, then more power to them, it should make listening to all well recorded/mixed music that much MORE enjoyable, and your mix decision making easier once you get used to them.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 1, 2016 20:40:09 GMT -6
Here's the files if you guys want to play around with them. I guess right click the link and save your computer. Never done this before on a webpage so I really don't know if it will work. www.dropbox.com/s/95z1hntf8gdvb9t/Louisiana%20Moon%20Tracks.zip?dl=0Edit, you don't have to right click, just click it and it will take you to the download.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 1, 2016 20:51:15 GMT -6
I find these speakers not very pleasing to listen to unless it's something recorded VERY well like that Gregory Porter record. Then they are stunning because of the acute detail. But I'll tell you brothers, they sure make a hack like me shrink up on playback. But not just me, a lot of music that I once listened to regularly sounds fairly bad on them. The old Garth Brooks stuff?? Oh boy... If it pleases your ear too much, you dont start to make it sound good. The NS10M sounds like crap, big crap, but if it sounds good on them it truly shines on the Genelecs.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 1, 2016 21:45:58 GMT -6
My updated mix using the suggestions of all above. I think this mix sounds more like one of mine with still more detail. I'm getting the hang of these speakers but there is defiantly a learning curve.. db.tt/WQV8ErZw
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2016 21:49:08 GMT -6
I - for one - think it sounds dramatically better than your other mixes...just my opinion.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 2, 2016 7:52:39 GMT -6
Update...
I had the Amphion 500 amp hooked up for the last few days but I'm sending it back. It is way bass heavy. Yielding anorexic mixes. Thanks to JK for staying up with me last night and helping me get this thing tuned in!! I'm now running my old Reference 500 amp with them and although the clarity isn't there, I feel it paints a closer sonic picture than did the Amphion.
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Post by jazznoise on Mar 2, 2016 14:59:05 GMT -6
Hey Cowboy, I did the bones of a rough mix but it's far from presentable just yet. What I will say is that it's a great song, great vocal performance and great guitar arrangements. However the drums are holding it back immensely, do you have any samples that are less processed? A slightly tubby kick sound and a nice neutral steel snare sound would be great.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 2, 2016 19:57:25 GMT -6
Hey Cowboy, I did the bones of a rough mix but it's far from presentable just yet. What I will say is that it's a great song, great vocal performance and great guitar arrangements. However the drums are holding it back immensely, do you have any samples that are less processed? A slightly tubby kick sound and a nice neutral steel snare sound would be great. Thats an old Alabama tune. It was an album filler on one of their earlier records. I had it on a 33 and played it till I wore it out You can replace anything you want on that. Just play with it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 2, 2016 20:17:10 GMT -6
Did you quantize those drums? They sound a little out of time in places. No judgement - just wondering. Also - when I put 98 in cubase, it didn't stick with 98. Did you track to a click?
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Post by jazznoise on Mar 3, 2016 7:28:23 GMT -6
Okay, here's a real quick and dirty mix I did. I don't have any drum samples on my laptop with my HD-25's, so I just stole some kick and snare samples from the last recording session my band did and tuned the kick down to your sample. dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27988945/Louisiana%20Moon.mp3
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 3, 2016 8:03:40 GMT -6
Did you quantize those drums? They sound a little out of time in places. No judgement - just wondering. Also - when I put 98 in cubase, it didn't stick with 98. Did you track to a click? Naw played live, and I'm a terrible drummer LOL.
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