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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 30, 2015 11:20:57 GMT -6
I've got a bunch of Edac terminated cables that I need to put into some 120 pin connectors. Since the cables are already terminated, I shouldn't need the crimper, but I'll likely need the Insertion and Extraction tools. Does anyone know of somewhere I could rent or borrow these tools? They're quite expensive to purchase just for 11 elco connectors.
If someone here has the tools, I could send you a gar2520 or gar1731 opamp for your trouble. And I would of course reimburse if any damage occurred to the tools...
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2015 12:43:21 GMT -6
You should definitely BUY an extraction tool if you're using elco's. The pins are virtually impossible to remove without it - and you almost certainly WILL need it. I think redco has them for around $70.
Insertion? I just use a mini flat bladed screwdriver. That works well.
The crimper tool is where it really starts getting expensive. Although I consider all my elco tools well worth the money spent.
I wish I could let you borrow mine, but I'm in the middle of a complete studio rebuild and I'm using them a bit every week. Sorry.
Sounds like your worst case is buying the extraction tool. Beware to use them carefully - the tips are easy to break off and the tips are around $35 by themselves. :-( Go slow and sure and you should be OK.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 30, 2015 14:46:57 GMT -6
You should definitely BUY an extraction tool if you're using elco's. The pins are virtually impossible to remove without it - and you almost certainly WILL need it. I think redco has them for around $70. Insertion? I just use a mini flat bladed screwdriver. That works well. The crimper tool is where it really starts getting expensive. Although I consider all my elco tools well worth the money spent. I wish I could let you borrow mine, but I'm in the middle of a complete studio rebuild and I'm using them a bit every week. Sorry. Sounds like your worst case is buying the extraction tool. Beware to use them carefully - the tips are easy to break off and the tips are around $35 by themselves. :-( Go slow and sure and you should be OK. Great advice -- thanks! I bit the bullet and ordered the extraction tool from Redco. It kind of makes me nauseous paying $70 for a glorified toothpick, but that was actually a good bit cheaper than most sites. I couldn't stomach ordering a spare tip for another $35, so I'll be verrrrrry careful. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 31, 2015 13:45:47 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Dec 31, 2015 16:01:16 GMT -6
I purchased the Paladin 1670 and have never regretted it for an instant. A complex, precise and highly well machined tool that is excellent.
Elco's aren't the cheapest way to hook up gear, but the flexibility and consistency of connection cannot be topped IMO. Far better than DSub's or TRS, and way faster, more compact and ultimately cheaper than gold plated XLR's. (Of course, you're going to have to terminate to those at some point....)
Money spent on the right tools is never a waste IMO. Good luck with your wiring project. I know how time consuming and expensive it all is. I"m in the middle of reconfiguring myself. :-) My motto : do it right and do it once. LOL It took me about 4-5 full blown mega patch bays to come to the Elco table, but now I'm a happy man....and I'll never have to completely "re-do" a patch bay again as elco's are easily reconfigured.
bp
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Post by rowmat on Dec 31, 2015 16:53:23 GMT -6
I solder and heat-shrink Edac/Elco pins rather than crimp.
I bought the removal and insertion tools from Redco a couple of years ago.
If you have any Edacs then definitely get these as a minimum.
I am about to remove the entire patchbay from a Neotek Elite and remotely locate it.
I'll be terminating either end of the multicore snakes with Edacs.
There'll be a few weeks of intense Edac terminating I figure.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 31, 2015 17:10:51 GMT -6
I solder and heat-shrink Edac/Elco pins rather than crimp. I bought the removal and insertion tools from Redco a couple of years ago. If you have any Edacs then definitely get these as a minimum. I am about to remove the entire patchbay from a Neotek Elite and remotely locate it. I'll be terminating either end of the multicore snakes with Edacs. There'll be a few weeks of intense Edac terminating I figure. Thanks for the feedback -- mine are for a Neotek Elite as well... I got almost all the cabling I need second hand, but still need to build two 24 channel cables, so I decided to just solder them. I'm going cut some DB25's that I previously built to make the other ends, which will be going into an Antelope Orion and an Alphalink for 48 i/o (32 mono channels and 8 stereo). I did buy the extraction tool from Redco, but I'm going to try the tiny flat head for insertion. Relocating the patchbay sounds like a big job -- good luck! |
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Post by rowmat on Dec 31, 2015 17:23:25 GMT -6
I solder and heat-shrink Edac/Elco pins rather than crimp. I bought the removal and insertion tools from Redco a couple of years ago. If you have any Edacs then definitely get these as a minimum. I am about to remove the entire patchbay from a Neotek Elite and remotely locate it. I'll be terminating either end of the multicore snakes with Edacs. There'll be a few weeks of intense Edac terminating I figure. Thanks for the feedback -- mine are for a Neotek Elite as well... I got almost all the cabling I need second hand, but still need to build two 24 channel cables, so I decided to just solder them. I'm going cut some DB25's that I previously built to make the other ends, which will be going into an Antelope Orion and an Alphalink for 48 i/o (32 mono channels and 8 stereo). I did buy the extraction tool from Redco, but I'm going to try the tiny flat head for insertion. Relocating the patchbay sounds like a big job -- good luck! Yeah not a job I'm exactly looking forward to. How long have you had your Elite and what is its configuration? Mine is a 32 Channel with 8 stereo modules. I bought it from Canada via a US gear broker who was a f*cking nightmare to deal with and ended up having to airfreight it to Australia myself. I had to replace all the Molex headers on the master section motherboard as they were intermittent and am making up short connecting looms to go between the master section modules and motherboard. i won't know the condition of the switches and pots until I fire it up sometime in the next few weeks. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 31, 2015 17:37:10 GMT -6
Yeah not a job I'm exactly looking forward to. How long have you had your Elite and what is its configuration? Mine is a 32 Channel with 8 stereo modules. I bought it from Canada via a US gear broker who was a f*cking nightmare to deal with and ended up having to airfreight it to Australia myself. I had to replace all the Molex headers on the master section motherboard as they were intermittent and am making up short connecting looms to go between the master section modules and motherboard. i won't know the condition of the switches and pots until I fire it up sometime in the next few weeks. Same configuration as yours -- mine is a 1987. Fortunately, the broker had it in his possession in Nashville, so I was able to send an independent tech to verify the condition before I purchased it. That being said, I just got it this month, and I haven't been able to test it myself since I don't have cables yet! I've only been able to verify that all the switches/meters/leds/mute groups work. Also, mine requires two power supplies, and one of them already blew a bridge rectifier (posted about this on the neotek google group recently). Otherwise it appears to be in great shape --- it's only had one previous owner, and shows very little wear and tear. Mine didn't come with any documentation, so here I was mapping out the elco's with the DMM, with some help from my dad.  |
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Post by rowmat on Dec 31, 2015 17:45:28 GMT -6
Yeah not a job I'm exactly looking forward to. How long have you had your Elite and what is its configuration? Mine is a 32 Channel with 8 stereo modules. I bought it from Canada via a US gear broker who was a f*cking nightmare to deal with and ended up having to airfreight it to Australia myself. I had to replace all the Molex headers on the master section motherboard as they were intermittent and am making up short connecting looms to go between the master section modules and motherboard. i won't know the condition of the switches and pots until I fire it up sometime in the next few weeks. Same configuration as yours -- mine is a 1987. Fortunately, the broker had it in his possession in Nashville, so I was able to send an independent tech to verify the condition before I purchased it. That being said, I just got it this month, and I haven't been able to test it myself since I don't have cables yet! I've only been able to verify that all the switches/meters/leds/mute groups work. Also, mine requires two power supplies, and one of them already blew a bridge rectifier (posted about this on the neotek google group recently). Otherwise it appears to be in great shape --- it's only had one previous owner, and shows very little wear and tear. Mine didn't come with any documentation, so here I was mapping out the elco's with the DMM, with some help from my dad. Looks the mirror image of mine. Mine has the patchbay on the left and the producer's desk on the right. Mine only came with a single power supply which I think is marginal for the console especially with the additional 8 stereo modules. Dare I ask which broker in Nashville? |
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Post by ericn on Dec 31, 2015 18:21:43 GMT -6
I purchased the Paladin 1670 and have never regretted it for an instant. A complex, precise and highly well machined tool that is excellent. Elco's aren't the cheapest way to hook up gear, but the flexibility and consistency of connection cannot be topped IMO. Far better than DSub's or TRS, and way faster, more compact and ultimately cheaper than gold plated XLR's. (Of course, you're going to have to terminate to those at some point....) Money spent on the right tools is never a waste IMO. Good luck with your wiring project. I know how time consuming and expensive it all is. I"m in the middle of reconfiguring myself. :-) My motto : do it right and do it once. LOL It took me about 4-5 full blown mega patch bays to come to the Elco table, but now I'm a happy man....and I'll never have to completely "re-do" a patch bay again as elco's are easily reconfigured. bp There is a more hardy multi pin , the Whirlwind MASS but it is uhber expensive and requires even more expensive Tools! |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 31, 2015 18:26:43 GMT -6
Looks the mirror image of mine. Mine has the patchbay on the left and the producer's desk on the right. Mine only came with a single power supply which I think is marginal for the console especially with the additional 8 stereo modules. Dare I ask which broker in Nashville? I got it from Sphere, and I had actually read about your experience on the neotek group, and similar stories about a couple other North American brokers, which made me pretty leery of working with brokers at all....... but since they had it in their possession, and within a reasonable driving distance from me, I decided it was worth the gamble. The whole process took a little longer than expected, but otherwise, it's been fine so far. My Elite will only work with both supplies hooked up -- 1st supply powers channels 1-26 and master section, and meters. The 2nd powers the remaining 6 mono channels and 8 stereo channels. I also have a 3rd supply for the Audio Kinetics VCA automation, but I don't have the computer for it (and I don't think I would use it if I did). The automation can be bypassed, and it has standard P&G 3220 faders. For improved ergonomics, I'm considering moving the producer's desk to the middle of the desk to make room for a keyboard and monitor... similar to this.... but I imagine that extending the wiring would be a nightmare.  |
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Post by rowmat on Dec 31, 2015 19:04:37 GMT -6
Looks the mirror image of mine. Mine has the patchbay on the left and the producer's desk on the right. Mine only came with a single power supply which I think is marginal for the console especially with the additional 8 stereo modules. Dare I ask which broker in Nashville? I got it from Sphere, and I had actually read about your experience on the neotek group, and similar stories about a couple other North American brokers, which made me pretty leery of working with brokers at all....... but since they had it in their possession, and within a reasonable driving distance from me, I decided it was worth the gamble. The whole process took a little longer than expected, but otherwise, it's been fine so far. My Elite will only work with both supplies hooked up -- 1st supply powers channels 1-26 and master section, and meters. The 2nd powers the remaining 6 mono channels and 8 stereo channels. I also have a 3rd supply for the Audio Kinetics VCA automation, but I don't have the computer for it (and I don't think I would use it if I did). The automation can be bypassed, and it has standard P&G 3220 faders. For improved ergonomics, I'm considering moving the producer's desk to the middle of the desk to make room for a keyboard and monitor... similar to this.... but I imagine that extending the wiring would be a nightmare. I doubt my single supply will be enough to run the console. I haven't finished with Duncan yet. He stills owes me a refund for the freight money I paid him. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 31, 2015 19:26:01 GMT -6
I doubt my single supply will be enough to run the console. Does yours have two power inputs at the back? Mine has 2 twelve pin inputs labelled 'A' and 'B.' |
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Post by rowmat on Dec 31, 2015 19:39:26 GMT -6
The wiring at the back was cut at the point where it entered the console and is quite a mess.
I was going to fit some kind of multipin connector.
Duncan told me the console came with a single supply.
Duncan also told me a lot of other stuff.. mostly bullshit.
The supply looks like it has got pretty hot.
Certain areas of the main PCB look somewhat scorched.
If the supply is either toast or inadequate I'll buy a larger single power supply.
These Neotek supplies don't look all that robust IMO.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 31, 2015 19:49:32 GMT -6
The wiring at the back was cut at the point where it entered the console and is quite a mess. I was going to fit some kind of multipin connector. Each of mine has this connector... it's actually a 14 pin connector, loaded with 12 pins. One of the PSU's (which works fine) looks pretty rough on the inside... it looks like it's been overheated over a long period time and a lot of the pcb is bubbling up.  |
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Post by rowmat on Dec 31, 2015 20:12:09 GMT -6
The wiring at the back was cut at the point where it entered the console and is quite a mess. I was going to fit some kind of multipin connector. Each of mine has this connector... it's actually a 14 pin connector, loaded with 12 pins. One of the PSU's (which works fine) looks pretty rough on the inside... it looks like it's been overheated over a long period time and a lot of the pcb is bubbling up. Thanks for that. There was one of those connectors on the end of the main power loom that was packed with the console but the wiring at the console end has been cut off so I'll have to trace it out. I'm going to look at another supply as I don't trust the Neotek supply that came with the desk as it has been getting too hot IMO. I'll either get a larger suitable aftermarket supply which will likely cost over $2000 by the time I ship it or I may put something together myself out of a couple of Power One style open frame supplies. If I kept the original Neotoek supply I would have to recap it anyway and, to be frank, I'd rather just invest in a better supply period. The main +/- supply rails and phantom power are pretty straight forward but the meter supply and especially the power for the logic system may be a bit trickier. |
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Post by ericn on Dec 31, 2015 20:21:05 GMT -6
Each of mine has this connector... it's actually a 14 pin connector, loaded with 12 pins. One of the PSU's (which works fine) looks pretty rough on the inside... it looks like it's been overheated over a long period time and a lot of the pcb is bubbling up. Thanks for that. There was one of those connectors on the end of the main power loom that was packed with the console but the wiring at the console end has been cut off so I'll have to trace it out. I'm going to look at another supply as I don't trust the Neotek supply that came with the desk as it has been getting too hot IMO. I'll either get a larger suitable aftermarket supply which will likely cost over $2000 by the time I ship it or I may put something together myself out of a couple of Power One style open frame supplies. If I kept the original Neotoek supply I would have to recap it anyway and, to be frank, I'd rather just invest in a better supply period. The main +/- supply rails and phantom power are pretty straight forward but the meter supply and especially the power for the logic system may be a bit trickier. Go the PowerOne route! You won't be sorry and I bet it comes in at less than your $2k estimate! |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 31, 2015 20:25:38 GMT -6
Each of mine has this connector... it's actually a 14 pin connector, loaded with 12 pins. One of the PSU's (which works fine) looks pretty rough on the inside... it looks like it's been overheated over a long period time and a lot of the pcb is bubbling up. Thanks for that. There was one of those connectors on the end of the main power loom that was packed with the console but the wiring at the console end has been cut off so I'll have to trace it out. I'm going to look at another supply as I don't trust the Neotek supply that came with the desk as it has been getting too hot IMO. I'll either get a larger suitable aftermarket supply which will likely cost over $2000 by the time I ship it or I may put something together myself out of a couple of Power One style open frame supplies. If I kept the original Neotoek supply I would have to recap it anyway and, to be frank, I'd rather just invest in a better supply period. The main +/- supply rails and phantom power are pretty straight forward but the meter supply and especially the power for the logic system may be a bit trickier. If you do decide to reuse that connector, I'll be glad to send you any pics or applicable wiring info, assuming mine are wired the same. |
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Post by rowmat on Dec 31, 2015 20:30:14 GMT -6
Thanks for that. There was one of those connectors on the end of the main power loom that was packed with the console but the wiring at the console end has been cut off so I'll have to trace it out. I'm going to look at another supply as I don't trust the Neotek supply that came with the desk as it has been getting too hot IMO. I'll either get a larger suitable aftermarket supply which will likely cost over $2000 by the time I ship it or I may put something together myself out of a couple of Power One style open frame supplies. If I kept the original Neotoek supply I would have to recap it anyway and, to be frank, I'd rather just invest in a better supply period. The main +/- supply rails and phantom power are pretty straight forward but the meter supply and especially the power for the logic system may be a bit trickier. Go the PowerOne route! You won't be sorry and I bet it comes in at less than your $2k estimate! Sorry I was wrong about the $2k... more like $5k AUD by the time it's shipped and import taxes etc are paid. The shipping cost is insane! www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-POWER-SUPPLY-FOR-NEOTEK-ELITE-RECORDING-CONSOLE-HI-POWER-CONSOLE-UPGRADE-/301509188936 |
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Post by rowmat on Dec 31, 2015 20:39:09 GMT -6
Thanks for that. There was one of those connectors on the end of the main power loom that was packed with the console but the wiring at the console end has been cut off so I'll have to trace it out. I'm going to look at another supply as I don't trust the Neotek supply that came with the desk as it has been getting too hot IMO. I'll either get a larger suitable aftermarket supply which will likely cost over $2000 by the time I ship it or I may put something together myself out of a couple of Power One style open frame supplies. If I kept the original Neotoek supply I would have to recap it anyway and, to be frank, I'd rather just invest in a better supply period. The main +/- supply rails and phantom power are pretty straight forward but the meter supply and especially the power for the logic system may be a bit trickier. If you do decide to reuse that connector, I'll be glad to send you any pics or applicable wiring info, assuming mine are wired the same. Thanks for the offer but I won't assume anything is the same. I have some Neotek PS schematics so I'll make sure it matches those and change it if it doesn't. Who knows what's been done to the wiring over the years? I bought a Valley People eight module rack a few years ago from the US. I noticed the voltage selector switch was set to 220vac and initially assumed the seller had kindly set it to suit our Australian mains voltage (actually 240vac). However just as I was about to switch it on I had a nagging feeling in my stomach. I measured the primary of the power transformer and toggled the voltage selector switch between 220vac and 110vac. Lucky I did because it turned out the voltage selector switch had been installed back to front (from factory) and when set to 220vac it was actually set at 110vac and vice versa. Had I switched it on without checking I would have smoked the transformer! |
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Post by ericn on Dec 31, 2015 20:45:59 GMT -6
Then most definitely go PowerOne ! The PowerOne PSU is the one thing I love about the STATUS! But then I'm the guy who uses a 2.8 AMP DDA /Dynacord supply for his 500 rack! |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 1, 2016 8:27:16 GMT -6
Sorry you guys in ozland are getting shafted with the dollar diff and shipping silliness right now!!! Pretty stunning!
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Post by rowmat on Aug 30, 2017 2:58:59 GMT -6
The wiring at the back was cut at the point where it entered the console and is quite a mess. I was going to fit some kind of multipin connector. Each of mine has this connector... it's actually a 14 pin connector, loaded with 12 pins. One of the PSU's (which works fine) looks pretty rough on the inside... it looks like it's been overheated over a long period time and a lot of the pcb is bubbling up. I've ordered a pair of these along with the panel mount connectors from Mouser. However I'm getting two 9 pin versions rather than using 12 pins per connector as I'm keeping the two +18v/0v/-18v feeds seperate each on their own connector with one feed supplying the first 26 channels and the master section and the other feed supplying the remaining 6 mono channels, 8 stereo channels and also a Capi 11 slot lunchbox. I may just get a larger power supply but if I don't and instead manage to find a second Neotek supply cheap enough I don't want to run them in parallel as if one goes down the second could become quickly overloaded. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Aug 30, 2017 9:05:15 GMT -6
Each of mine has this connector... it's actually a 14 pin connector, loaded with 12 pins. One of the PSU's (which works fine) looks pretty rough on the inside... it looks like it's been overheated over a long period time and a lot of the pcb is bubbling up. I've ordered a pair of these along with the panel mount connectors from Mouser. However I'm getting two 9 pin versions rather than using 12 pins per connector as I'm keeping the two +18v/0v/-18v feeds seperate each on their own connector with one feed supplying the first 26 channels and the master section and the other feed supplying the remaining 6 mono channels, 8 stereo channels and also a Capi 11 slot lunchbox. I may just get a larger power supply but if I don't and instead manage to find a second Neotek supply cheap enough I don't want to run them in parallel as if one goes down the second could become quickly overloaded. I ended up replacing my connectors with this speakon type: Neutrik NL8FC amd NL8MPR. They're pretty easy to wire, and they're more robust according to Ike Zimbel. I had to widen the hole in the aluminum panel though. |
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