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Post by yotonic on Dec 5, 2015 16:27:29 GMT -6
I started out in grad school on the first Macs and have used them throughout my career in advertising and production. Lately Apple has become focused on trying to make me purchase more things and fight through work arounds and updates that they are no longer a company that makes my life as a professional easier, with professional tools, but just another platform trying to sell me more stuff I don't need.
If a better company came along I would leave Apple in a minute.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 5, 2015 16:47:17 GMT -6
After performing multiple updates on a MacBook Pro and iPad I agree.
I avoid updating as soon as a new OS appears as these updates seem to create more problems than they fix.
However I could no longer access my online banking. Why? Because of issues with Safari and the OS which required upgrading to the latest version!!
This applied to Mavericks and IOS 8.X
So either upgrade or you cannot do online banking... Period!! A$$holes!!
Added to that our studio IMac is about six years old and we don't want to update it to El Capitan as we will lose FireWire support and it doesn't have Thunderbolt.
As we use Reaper we have managed to hold off any OSX updates for quite a while but Mountain Lion support for some of our other stuff is beginning to disappear fast so even though our iMac is doing everything we need it to do we now have to budget for a new computer before we can update OSX.
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Post by wiz on Dec 5, 2015 16:52:45 GMT -6
Does El Capitan, support firewire, via thunderbolt?
I have my Lacie FW drive hanging off my thunderbolt port, I am on Yosemite though.
I was a computer engineer in the early 90s, its all easy now compared to then 8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by rowmat on Dec 5, 2015 17:38:56 GMT -6
Does El Capitan, support firewire, via thunderbolt? I have my Lacie FW drive hanging off my thunderbolt port, I am on Yosemite though. I was a computer engineer in the early 90s, its all easy now compared to then 8) cheers Wiz El Capitan does support FireWire via Thunderbolt. It does on my MacBook Pro. However switching to 'El Capitan' on our non Thunderbolt iMac is not possible as we have a FireWire Lightpipe interface and a pair of FireWire LaCie drives. If Linux supported everything we needed I would build a Linux DAW and dump crApple in a flash.
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Post by mulmany on Dec 5, 2015 17:43:57 GMT -6
Does El Capitan, support firewire, via thunderbolt? I have my Lacie FW drive hanging off my thunderbolt port, I am on Yosemite though. I was a computer engineer in the early 90s, its all easy now compared to then 8) cheers Wiz El Capitan does support FireWire via Thunderbolt. It does on my MacBook Pro. However switching to 'El Capitan' on our non Thunderbolt iMac is not possible as we have a FireWire Lightpipe interface and a pair of FireWire LaCie drives. If Linux supported everything we needed I would build a Linux DAW and dump crApple in a flash. Firewire support is only nixed for core audio interfaces. You can buy a osx disc for any os you want.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 5, 2015 18:04:12 GMT -6
El Capitan does support FireWire via Thunderbolt. It does on my MacBook Pro. However switching to 'El Capitan' on our non Thunderbolt iMac is not possible as we have a FireWire Lightpipe interface and a pair of FireWire LaCie drives. If Linux supported everything we needed I would build a Linux DAW and dump crApple in a flash. Firewire support is only nixed for core audio interfaces. You can buy a osx disc for any os you want. So I take it as long as the manufacturer of the third party FireWire device has FireWire driver support for 'El Capitan' then the device should still function directly via the Mac's existing FireWire ports under 'El Capitan'? Or will it only work via a Thunderbolt > FireWire adapter? I was under the impression that 'El Capitan' would effectively disable the FireWire ports. I stand corrected if I'm wrong.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 5, 2015 19:41:59 GMT -6
You just can't win with an operating system, seems to be the line.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 5, 2015 20:29:08 GMT -6
This is my opinion since 2010 I still use Logic 9 never upgraded the studio macs os since 8 years. On the laptop I have logic 10.
On the I pad two they do not support new apps anymore, ok next pad will be android. Not supporting a software thats the apple way to force you to buy something.
I just yesterday had this topic with someone of the native instruments marketing department asking why so many plug in developers exclude people with old OS. Why should I upgrade if the thing runs stable like no OS before.
Funny
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Post by ragan on Dec 5, 2015 20:44:31 GMT -6
Wasn't El Capitan only messing up FW for a few lines? Apogee, NI, Arturia, and some others? And those companies remedied their drivers and work now?
That's what I gathered.
I'm installing El Capitan right now....fingers crossed....
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 5, 2015 20:56:01 GMT -6
El Capitan is supposed to move a bunch of system graphics to the GPU. That's exactly what Microsoft did with Vista. The Vista problems were mostly related to graphics drivers and it took about six months to straighten it all out. I suspect that's what will happen with El Capitan.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 5, 2015 20:58:19 GMT -6
Wasn't El Capitan only messing up FW for a few lines? Apogee, NI, Arturia, and some others? And those companies remedied their drivers and work now? That's what I gathered. I'm installing El Capitan right now....fingers crossed.... a lesson i learned from logic 7 to 8 do not upgrade till they removed the biggest bugs. it can take a year, saves you from getting grey hairs.
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Post by porkyman on Dec 5, 2015 21:07:42 GMT -6
i started on mac and will never go back. they made a fool of me for years. pc has always been better than mac. apple admitted as much when they switched to intel. the only advantage it had was a 64bit OS when windows was stuck on 32. theyre both 64 now and 64bit can access something like a billion gigs of ram so the race is over. when you buy a mac today all you're really doing is paying 500% more for IMO an inferior OS.
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Post by ragan on Dec 5, 2015 21:13:18 GMT -6
I don't have any urgent deadlines or anything right now and I'm having some issues with external hard drives not mounting and it was suggested to me to try the new OS.
We'll see. Most of what I've seen seems like people using the stuff I use are doing alright.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 5, 2015 21:44:50 GMT -6
Actually Macs were much better than PCs for audio prior to Mac system X and the Intel CPUs that had come out a few years earlier. We demonstrated this fact to a very flustered Intel V.P. at a Stanford University Music Special Interest Group meeting that I'll never forget. Windows was 64 bit long before mac but no DAWs or commercial software supported it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 22:19:23 GMT -6
Yes people, 2015 i think the OS wars are finally over. May it be good or bad. From my perspective the 3 main desktop machine OSes are now OSX, Windows in one of the 64bit flavours and a bunch of Linux distros. MS OSes got as stable as Apple OSes with the advantage of supporting a wider field of hardware. Apple is still selling love. Sorry, this is not meant sarcastic, it's the outcome of a scientific research on Apple marketing and advertising and the customers relationship to the Apple products. A few months ago, a friend of mine, a guitarist, said something like: "I know my iphome is overpriced, i know it is not technically better than an android phone. I know my iBook is much too expensive, has problems with safari and people on other OSes complain about my mails beeing encoded in a funny way sometimes. I know they trick me to buy new hard- and software all the time. But i love my iphone and iBook. Sums it up pretty good. Nowadays there is no reason to try to find objective arguments in the MS vs. Apple discussion. Technically, none of them is more stable or unstable than the other. Even the hardware platforms are closer than ever before, allowing running the competitors OSes on the same machines. This war is over. Period. The rest are preferences regarding designs, hardware choices, budget etc.... I started with Apple II and left Apple somewhere after the Performas. LOL. I have no problem working with Apple at all, i just don't have one due to choices i made when things differed much more. So what about Linux? It is not that much the "hacker's OS" where you need 3 weeks to get the display and printer running anymore. There are still some things that bother me, esp. because i come from the IT side of things professionally. It is the "RTFM" knowitall attitude of the hardcore users and many linux developers/developer groups. Also the "Who needs this odd hardware?" "Whatfor do you need such odd functions? Who has more than 8 channels? What kind of surround speakers do you use?" attitude is a bit hard to take, when it comes to pro-audio stuff. But things become better with hardware manufacturers streamlining their hardware with stuff like class compliance with USB audio or maturity of the USB audio and FFADO drivers, which covers much more USB and firewire hardware than a few years ago. Unfortunately quite some hardware manufacturers still ignore or block the Linux platform with non-cooperate behaviour. Which is odd. The thing i see as an obstacle for the non IT specialist pro-audio user is the lack of plain user friendly documentation and community attitude. But it gets better. Unfortunately some of the former advantages of the Linux platforms have gone overboard for quite some time. I.e. there are too different concepts between distros, there are too many options and redundant packages that all have weaknesses in different fields, this should have been streamlined more at an earlier point, but things are like they are now. Do i like to work with a linux system for audio? Yes. Once the system is up and running, you can strip a lot of unused packages from it, optimize to the bone, get the OS GUI that fits your style to have a good workflow. It gets better in some regards while getting also some of the disadvantages that Windows ond OSX suffer from, the more it goes into the direction aiming at mainstream home and business users. Best thing - it is free, and to the overwhelming majority of packages open source. Nobody can shut down your computer hardware or software or render it useless like MS and Apple actually CAN and occasionally or regularly DO.
So, they all come closer and it gets a matter of personal preferences more and more. I really don't care about the OS from any other perspective as "Does it support the hard- and software i use NOW." Can be in 2 yrs. or so i totally switch to Linux. I really don't know but also don't exclude this from the possibilities. I like to run a linux system in parallel already for quite some time....
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Post by porkyman on Dec 5, 2015 22:37:59 GMT -6
im never gonna disagree with you bob but having gone 64bit long before mac just furthers my argument about windows being superior. seems like they were one step ahead. i dont think commercially bought pc's were capable of 64bit processing before mac though. even if windows was OS ready. i just remember thinking i was so superior to pc guys because i had 64 bits and i could use all this ram that those pathetic pc-ers couldn't.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 6, 2015 0:05:59 GMT -6
I've been on both extensively, but once i made the switch to mac, i'll probably never go back, how anyone could say a windows operating system is better than mac os...? is beyond jaw dropping to me, no friggin way in a million years is a windows OS even remotely close to the mac OS, NO WAY! and if you dare go on the webs with your windows machine your braver than I.... good luck Charlie Sheen.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 1:20:33 GMT -6
Tony, be assured i am on the interwebs every single day with a windows machine. Firefox, adblocker, pop-ups need my ok, i don't click on funny things in emails, and guess what? I don't waste a single thought on things like viruses, trojans etc.. I can't even remember when i had the last virus on a computer. No joke. And hold your breath - im am only using windows build in firewall and virus scanner. Nothing else. I don't even use a router, my Win has DIRECT access to the web. :-D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 1:21:26 GMT -6
I just was in the bathroom. I checked it in the mirror. I am not Charlie Sheen.
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Post by formatcyes on Dec 6, 2015 1:54:00 GMT -6
Don't think any good will come from a mac vs pc discussion. BUT I run all three os's Linux, osx and win 7 If my plugins and interface ran in linux I would be using it small, fast efficient is linux. For audio I am using mac Logic is an awesome DAW and because apple has hardware restriction's there os is more stable. Office computer is win7 if you have files, documents you share with other people I has to be in the format everyone use's. Don't think it matters all operating systems are prity good these days. Having written all that I love my new mac book pro it kills every other laptop I have owned by a large margin.
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Post by porkyman on Dec 6, 2015 1:57:00 GMT -6
Tony, be assured i am on the interwebs every single day with a windows machine. Firefox, adblocker, pop-ups need my ok, i don't click on funny things in emails, and guess what? I don't waste a single thought on things like viruses, trojans etc.. I can't even remember when i had the last virus on a computer. No joke. And hold your breath - im am only using windows build in firewall and virus scanner. Nothing else. I don't even use a router, my Win has DIRECT access to the web. :-D me too. no viruses. only using ms essentials for protection. same with my laptop. its so old its an xp. microsoft doesnt even support it anymore so ive got no antivirus software at all and still no viruses. the only real advantage to me is being able to use logic. but thats only because they're nazis.
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Post by warrenfirehouse on Dec 6, 2015 2:00:18 GMT -6
Gotta agree with tony on this one. I have a windows laptop for personal use, and a new imac maxed out in the studio. Im sure hardware wise the mac is nothing to brag about over pc, but the OS is why I overpayed for it, and I have no regrets. The thing just does what I ask it to do...FAST. I find windows to be extremely buggy and constantly frustrating to use. I dont even have to think about my computer in the studio which really helps focus on music and sound. I know there are many knowledgeable computer-savvy pc users that can get their machines to work very well for recording, but for the rest of us, thank god for mac os Up until a few months ago, I was running my rig on a ppc g5 from the 90s. And it was rock solid. I only upgraded to take advantage of newer software/interfaces that weren't supported. I think that says something.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 6, 2015 9:12:17 GMT -6
I was playin a bit of course I used to build my own pcs from around 1995 to 2003 until I got my G5, I never used my music pcs on the net for fear of certain inevitable doom, the Mac was a rock solid all the way around beast, building pcs was a motherboard chip matching, component selecting crap shoot, complete with tin can enclosures, spaghetti wire, zip tied plastic standoff's, really felt a gamble every time. When pulling the side off a Mac Pro tower reveals an incredible piece of mechanical engineering that is just beautiful, I'd call it Art If I remember correctly, u couldn't build a PC as strong as a Mac early on without spending a ton?
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Post by mobeach on Dec 6, 2015 9:34:58 GMT -6
I've been on both extensively, but once i made the switch to mac, i'll probably never go back, how anyone could say a windows operating system is better than mac os...? is beyond jaw dropping to me, no friggin way in a million years is a windows OS even remotely close to the mac OS, NO WAY! and if you dare go on the webs with your windows machine your braver than I.... good luck Charlie Sheen. Considering the considerable price difference, it better be better! And if an Apple falls prematurely there better be a good excuse.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 6, 2015 11:53:44 GMT -6
im never gonna disagree with you bob but having gone 64bit long before mac just furthers my argument about windows being superior. seems like they were one step ahead. i dont think commercially bought pc's were capable of 64bit processing before mac though. even if windows was OS ready. i just remember thinking i was so superior to pc guys because i had 64 bits and i could use all this ram that those pathetic pc-ers couldn't. The first 64 bit PCs were workstations running custom scientific software. The reason the mac systems prior to system X were better for audio is because it was a real time OS. Blazing fast but not very stable. It was a required hack for the mac GUI but we audio folks could hitch a very fast ride on it. It was also extremely hard to hack which is where macs got their reputation for being relatively immune to malware. System X wiped that advantage out along with the slower speed.
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