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Post by mrholmes on Sept 5, 2015 7:52:57 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 5, 2015 8:35:16 GMT -6
good post mrholmes. I listened, and it was vey interesting, and not so easy to judge. All three tracks sound good. If I guessed I'd say A was the Relab, B, the Bricasti. Where it got complicated was in choosing. When I tried A, it sounded good. When I went to B, my first response was it sounds more pro, more polished and transparent, more 3D. Then on C, it seems flatter.
Intellectually, when analyzing and listening for reverb quality, I can hear things in B that would lead me to say it's better, but when I consider how I felt listening to the track, and not the reverb, I grew to like A.
* I could only listen on headphones, I had to dismantle a few things in my system yesterday, and haven't put it back yet.
Answers soon please :-)
Wiz, if I can find time, I'll try the track with some Relab settings, but I have a full plate today, so I might not get it. I'll try comparing Medium Hall HD to large Hall HD, sometimes one works better with a track than the other.
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 5, 2015 10:28:54 GMT -6
good post mrholmes. I listened, and it was vey interesting, and not so easy to judge. All three tracks sound good. If I guessed I'd say A was the Relab, B, the Bricasti. Where it got complicated was in choosing. When I tried A, it sounded good. When I went to B, my first response was it sounds more pro, more polished and transparent, more 3D. Then on C, it seems flatter. Intellectually, when analyzing and listening for reverb quality, I can hear things in B that would lead me to say it's better, but when I consider how I felt listening to the track, and not the reverb, I grew to like A. * I could only listen on headphones, I had to dismantle a few things in my system yesterday, and haven't put it back yet. Answers soon please :-) Wiz, if I can find time, I'll try the track with some Relab settings, but I have a full plate today, so I might not get it. I'll try comparing Medium Hall HD to large Hall HD, sometimes one works better with a track than the other. I tend to swing in a file D but I have to leave the studio right now will do it tonight when I am back… |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Sept 5, 2015 10:56:52 GMT -6
I can put the UAD OWS on it. Also EWQL Spaces. THAT.... would be very cool. thanks man cheers Wiz I'll post the link after all of you check out my app lol |
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 5, 2015 11:10:32 GMT -6
appreciate you taking the time and posting this, though it seems ALL the files changed from the original... including the original, the delays are more forward, C is the closest thing to bricasti, but none of the samples sound like wiz's original. Q? why did you fade them in/out? It takes them more than 5 seconds to reach full volume? I found it difficult to adjust, and incredibly distracting, can you just start the tracks close to the beginning, and at full level? the beginning is where most of the space resides on the track, and the the best place to compare verb tails and such, even so, how ever your processing these? something is changing all of them from wiz's original to my ears.. did you convert sample rate or format at all? That said, i find the artistic choice of delay jumping to the right side to be a distraction from deciphering REALISM all together, on all the tracks haha, i'm such a pita! 8)
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 5, 2015 17:33:41 GMT -6
appreciate you taking the time and posting this, though it seems ALL the files changed from the original... including the original, the delays are more forward, C is the closest thing to bricasti, but none of the samples sound like wiz's original. Q? why did you fade them in/out? It takes them more than 5 seconds to reach full volume? I found it difficult to adjust, and incredibly distracting, can you just start the tracks close to the beginning, and at full level? the beginning is where most of the space resides on the track, and the the best place to compare verb tails and such, even so, how ever your processing these? something is changing all of them from wiz's original to my ears.. did you convert sample rate or format at all? That said, i find the artistic choice of delay jumping to the right side to be a distraction from deciphering REALISM all together, on all the tracks haha, i'm such a pita! 8) Intresting comment I will answer later may others want to listen too and I dont want to influence them.... |
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Post by wiz on Sept 5, 2015 17:41:50 GMT -6
Thanks mrholmes for taking the time to do this and post.. takes time and I appreciate it. I think though, this is going to be a bit of an eye opener here... 8) Firstly ABX test, can on the internet, end up in some sort of competitive challenge.. lets not even get close to that, ok? Its just guys here passionate about stuff and generous enough to put their time and internet bandwidth up for others..and fun...and we all learn something, for nuthin' .. now thats a good deal... 8) That said. I reckon the ABCD Test is A = not one of my files... as to what the verb is, I suppose from the PCM96 plug in series..and its A BIG reverb.. B = that is my RELAB file, C = Bricasti D = PCM96 Plug Now , have a listen to this.. ABCD and Dry File, its only 5 meg, so everyone could listen I reckon click this linHere are the four files A, B , C , D and the original dry file one after the other... in that order .. so 5 really short bits of audio. I think this will make a few peoples socks roll up and down 8) Listen to those... and with the answers I put up above, see what you reckon... Listen to what happens to my dry audio, with each of these reverbs applied...which do you reckon is the most realistic now? cheers Wiz |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 5, 2015 20:06:20 GMT -6
I'm not going to really do anything scientific...I'm just going to put on reverbs at the mix level I think sounds good.
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Post by wiz on Sept 5, 2015 21:08:12 GMT -6
I'm not going to really do anything scientific...I'm just going to put on reverbs at the mix level I think sounds good. I reckon thats the way... make it sound like you would if you was mixing it.. cheers Wiz |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 5, 2015 21:26:48 GMT -6
Did I miss something? I only got an A, B, and C file, no D.
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Post by wiz on Sept 5, 2015 22:43:22 GMT -6
Did I miss something? I only got an A, B, and C file, no D. The D File, is a file that Mr Holmes is going to post up later. He had sent me the file, via PM (link) I put it in and used it in the ABCD test file I generated above. So you haven't missed anything, and he will post a link to that file, D, when he goes back to his studio, timezone differences at play I think? cheers Wiz |
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 6, 2015 6:10:58 GMT -6
Its Sunday in Germany but I did match file D even closer to the M7. My family is not amused.... LOL So the ABX thing was not close matched just a taste thing. A PCM 96 B realb LX C Bricasti M7 -- I took the PCM 96 in Room-Mode and I did try to match it to the M7 file as close as I can get. If you listen carefully you still can hear that they share the same LEXICON roots. To me the M7 manages the low end way more easy. I think both reverbs are one of the best you can use. The cost performance is with the PCM 96 Bundle light-years ahead. But I am also sure that the M7 may have other options which may eat the PCM bundle? Thats a question only wiz could answer in a review of both. On demand: No fades no nothing on the two bus just the pure song with the PCM 96. www.dropbox.com/s/ku4pm8v3ieuucju/PCM%2096%20match.wav?dl=0 |
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Post by mjheck on Sept 6, 2015 7:07:44 GMT -6
I'm curious - does anyone have those Bricasti impulses that were kicking around a few years ago?
As long as we are on this subject, It would be interesting to compare one of those IR's with the actual hardware unit -
not that I know "apples to apples" even exists, not having either.
MJH
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 6, 2015 7:13:57 GMT -6
I'm curious - does anyone have those Bricasti impulses that were kicking around a few years ago? As long as we are on this subject, It would be interesting to compare one of those IR's with the actual hardware unit - not that I know "apples to apples" even exists, not having either. MJH I wrote it already that the IRs are, to my suprise, close but you cant match them because its an IR. They are good for what they are but they do not fit in every situation. One reason why I bought the PCM 96 is that I have access to many parameters. BTW you can compare yourself WIzs file to the IRs. www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-impulse-responses/ |
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 6, 2015 8:53:18 GMT -6
appreciate you taking the time and posting this, though it seems ALL the files changed from the original... including the original, the delays are more forward, C is the closest thing to bricasti, but none of the samples sound like wiz's original. Q? why did you fade them in/out? It takes them more than 5 seconds to reach full volume? I found it difficult to adjust, and incredibly distracting, can you just start the tracks close to the beginning, and at full level? the beginning is where most of the space resides on the track, and the the best place to compare verb tails and such, even so, how ever your processing these? something is changing all of them from wiz's original to my ears.. did you convert sample rate or format at all? That said, i find the artistic choice of delay jumping to the right side to be a distraction from deciphering REALISM all together, on all the tracks haha, i'm such a pita! 8) I quoted myself because I wanted to point something out, yes i remain a pita 8) i listened to the files yesterdee on iTunes with my built in macpro conversion, i wanted to use my good conversion for a listen, so I opened a new PT session this AM and added wiz's files, then I went to the mrholmes ABCX files to add those, upon prompting import, PT asked me to convert the files to the current session format, which means the original wiz files were format converted somewhere along the ABCX test download line, I knew something was different about the sound of the files, did Dropbox do that reformatting automatically? Anyway, I'm glad that C was the bricasti on the ABCX files, but as I said, none of those tracks sound the same as the original wiz file to me. This audio thing is a game of inches for me, I've spent lots of time and $ to gain an inch at a time, and I feel good about that, the bricasti represents a foot in that game of inches to my ears, it certainly is staying on my short list. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 6, 2015 9:30:58 GMT -6
Dang, so I picked the PCM96, with the Realb second by a nose? Or does the "D" thing skew which one was A,B,C?
I might be biased to the Lex, because I used them everyday of 10 years. But when I listened to a Bricast, it was definitely a huge step up from the good plugs, so heaven knows what it all means. From having heard the Bricasti, I'd choose it over anything else I've heard yet.
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 6, 2015 10:15:05 GMT -6
Dang, so I picked the PCM96, with the Realb second by a nose? Or does the "D" thing skew which one was A,B,C? I might be biased to the Lex, because I used them everyday of 10 years. But when I listened to a Bricast, it was definitely a huge step up from the good plugs, so heaven knows what it all means. From having heard the Bricasti, I'd choose it over anything else I've heard yet. If you listen now to my last file, and compare it to the M7 file of Wiz, you will come to the conclusion that its a not so huge step..... its something like brother and sister to me. A big plus for the M7 is that it holds the original positions, the PCM goes into the side signal. The PCM is more FXs alike, may the reason why so many AE love it in POP music. www.dropbox.com/s/ku4pm8v3ieuucju/PCM%2096%20match.wav?dl=0 |
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Post by wiz on Sept 6, 2015 16:39:28 GMT -6
Dang, so I picked the PCM96, with the Realb second by a nose? Or does the "D" thing skew which one was A,B,C? I might be biased to the Lex, because I used them everyday of 10 years. But when I listened to a Bricast, it was definitely a huge step up from the good plugs, so heaven knows what it all means. From having heard the Bricasti, I'd choose it over anything else I've heard yet. If you listen now to my last file, and compare it to the M7 file of Wiz, you will come to the conclusion that its a not so huge step..... its something like brother and sister to me. A big plus for the M7 is that it holds the original positions, the PCM goes into the side signal. The PCM is more FXs alike, may the reason why so many AE love it in POP music. www.dropbox.com/s/ku4pm8v3ieuucju/PCM%2096%20match.wav?dl=0See for me, the difference is quite significant. And thats okay, we are all happy with different things. In plain terms.. I am more than happy to open my wallet to get the Bricasti to get the difference between that last version mrholmes and the Bricasti. Here is why... There are two reasons. Reason 1. There is a 3D .. fairy dust thing happening with the Bricasti that is just quite simply, beautiful. I can get what the PCM96 is doing to the audio, with any number of Reverb Plug ins, and IRs. I can. I can't get what the Bricasti Is doing .. with anything BUT the Bricasti. Reason 2. I can turn the knob on the Bricasti, and immediately have another environment, that sounds amazing. I really appreciate the time and effort taken to contribute to the tests, I really really do. But the PCM 96 isn't getting close for me... geez, if it did.. I would buy it and go buy a REDD 47 with the difference 8) cheers Wiz |
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 6, 2015 17:05:29 GMT -6
If you listen now to my last file, and compare it to the M7 file of Wiz, you will come to the conclusion that its a not so huge step..... its something like brother and sister to me. A big plus for the M7 is that it holds the original positions, the PCM goes into the side signal. The PCM is more FXs alike, may the reason why so many AE love it in POP music. www.dropbox.com/s/ku4pm8v3ieuucju/PCM%2096%20match.wav?dl=0See for me, the difference is quite significant. And thats okay, we are all happy with different things. In plain terms.. I am more than happy to open my wallet to get the Bricasti to get the difference between that last version mrholmes and the Bricasti. Here is why... There are two reasons. Reason 1. There is a 3D .. fairy dust thing happening with the Bricasti that is just quite simply, beautiful. I can get what the PCM96 is doing to the audio, with any number of Reverb Plug ins, and IRs. I can. I can't get what the Bricasti Is doing .. with anything BUT the Bricasti. Reason 2. I can turn the knob on the Bricasti, and immediately have another environment, that sounds amazing. I really appreciate the time and effort taken to contribute to the tests, I really really do. But the PCM 96 isn't getting close for me... geez, if it did.. I would buy it and go buy a REDD 47 with the difference 8) cheers Wiz To have an open conversation. To me the diffrence is not siginificant, at least by the files you gave us. I think there is still a lot of hype about the M7, like it was about the PCM bundle as well. I am still sceptical, and I do think both can work as main studio-reverb. I disagree with your IR analogy. I do think the PCM sounds very diffrent from IRs. It glues way better with the source, as well as that IRs do not deliver the modulation of the tails. No offending here but I know how psychology can lift what we hear in the first few weeks, owning a new toy. For this reason my advise is to use the M7 as well as the relabLX in your mixes. Make your decission depending on mixing taste - instead of using a test song. I choosed the PCM bundle because I liked it,and it gave me depth and dimension in no time. I like its fx attitude, it does not try to be too real, it is artificial in a beautiful sense. You are in the position to use the M7 for a long time now. Time will tell if it sits unused, or used in your rack. Have fun.... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 6, 2015 22:45:31 GMT -6
It will be fun if you can revisit this thread after you've had it for quite a while.
After some time passes, I really see how I feel about things. Using something for 6-9 months usually shakes it out for me.
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 7, 2015 1:35:45 GMT -6
I heard a significant difference, even on the transcoded files.
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 7, 2015 6:22:43 GMT -6
I heard a significant difference, even on the transcoded files. That was because some of the PCM and relab LEX have not been matched close enough to the M7. I think its unfair to judge any tool by posting a single file. You will get 1000 opinions. At least in my book I need two or three weeks to work with the tools. I want to know how a tool reacts in the mixing context. Special in reverb there are algos which sound super cool on single sources, but they do not make it in the mix. Its a serious decision because wiz also could have a very nice vacation for the money. |
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 7, 2015 7:30:41 GMT -6
Sweetwaters financing deal ends tomorrow. Anyone pulling the trigger?
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Post by drsax on Sept 7, 2015 8:05:34 GMT -6
Here's the thing with the Bricasti, the more you use it, the more it will confirm what Wiz is experiencing. And the more you learn it, the more versatile it becomes. Most that have had it and get rid of it seem to be stuck on the sound of Lexicon verb. I personally love lexicon as well. With experience using the Bricasti, the difference becomes greater. It's a relatively new tool in the audio world and doesn't fit the mold of what we are used to. I was personally underwhelmed by it the first day I got mine, that was right when they were available several years ago. It was the most I had ever paid for any outboard at that point and time. The more I used it, the more I understood how amazing it is. I too was stuck on the lexicon sound. Now I look at what the Bricasti brings to the table and it would be one of the last pieces I'd ever let go and certainly would be the last reverb I'd let go of. Even the smallest amount of Bricasti used properly in a mix, even on a drier mix, can enhance the soundstage in a way that cannot be done with any other verb I've used, plugin or outboard.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 7, 2015 8:19:55 GMT -6
I wonder, can I stop my Relab verb from doing the tail pushing to the sides thing, and just be a room? I have little experience EQing and manipulating reverbs. I typically rolloff around 250, and cut the highs back a bit, but that's it. I haven't explored all the Ralab has, I like the Med and large halls, and have stuck with them.
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