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Post by guitfiddler on Jul 29, 2015 21:07:59 GMT -6
I am testing my U87 with my Rode NT2(modded) It's scary close! I never thought it would be this close. There is a difference, but not apples to oranges. I will be doing some more testing over the next few days, and when I get time I will post some audio.
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Post by yotonic on Jul 29, 2015 21:13:09 GMT -6
I love the early Neumann u87. I had one with "the Gotham Mod" that opened up the top end a little bit, but I'm not sure that's the right fit for that classic mic. That mic has a mojo all its own that should not be messed with.
I'm a songwriter and while I like my custom clones, there is something to be said for the "vibe" and "headspace" vintage gear puts you in. For me singing into an old U87 that Jackson Browne recorded with, or sitting at my 1973 Mark I Suitcase Rhodes, often does something cognitively to help facilitate the magic of "writing music" much the way athletes benefit from mental visualization and other techniques to dial in their focus and "get in the groove."
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Post by drbill on Jul 29, 2015 22:36:05 GMT -6
I love the early Neumann u87. I had one with "the Gotham Mod" that opened up the top end a little bit, but I'm not sure that's the right fit for that classic mic. That mic has a mojo all its own that should not be messed with. I'm a songwriter and while I like my custom clones, there is something to be said for the "vibe" and "headspace" vintage gear puts you in. For me singing into an old U87 that Jackson Browne recorded with, or sitting at my 1973 Mark I Suitcase Rhodes, often does something cognitively to help facilitate the magic of "writing music" much the way athletes benefit from mental visualization and other techniques to dial in their focus and "get in the groove." Absolutely, there's no denying it. Doesn't have to have had Jackson singing into it either. It's the ether that surrounds the way they "look". That's where a lot of the DIY stuff falls flat IMO. There's ZERO doubt that my vintage U87 has coaxed some great vocals out of it due to singers knowing the look and knowing a thousand hits have been cut on one. Vs. modded or clone mics I have that sound as good or better, but they don't show up sporting that ever present "look" of the classics. Hence, they often don't coax out the performance. If you walk into a studio and someone puts a 59 les paul into your hands, you're going to play different (hopefully better) than with your tricked out 2015 epiphone LP copy. |
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Post by Randge on Jul 30, 2015 10:24:47 GMT -6
Mine is a late 70's 87. There have been times that it was the only mic that worked on a singer after trying 10 or more. It it is wrong for a singer, you know it right away. It is great on steel guitar and banjo and a go to for that for certain. I only have $1500.00 in mine, so I feel pretty good about the purchase. The only thing that it needed was a capsule cleaning and Sinsay did that in no time for me.
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Post by guitfiddler on Jul 30, 2015 19:11:16 GMT -6
Can you take a newer U87 and make it sound like a good vintage U87?
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Post by Ward on Jul 30, 2015 19:39:56 GMT -6
Can you take a newer U87 and make it sound like a good vintage U87? You have to have really good ears to tell the difference, most times. There's a video shoot-out on Youtube between a vintage U87 and a newish U87ai... and most guys in the studio could not tell the difference. They paired a K67 capsule with the U89 amplifier circuit and came pretty danged closed to it! When I test vocal microphones in my studio, I try both the U87 and the U87ai on them (along with many others including one of the best UM57s that @sinsay has heard) and I can definitely tell the difference. When it comes to modern rock, the newer (1987) U87ai often wins out because it sounds more 'immediate' and present. |
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Post by Ward on Jul 30, 2015 19:44:34 GMT -6
Here's that video... Hear all that lower mid distortion in the older U87? That's what people are raving about with the old ones. LOL . . . not as bad as you might think when placed in a mix, however. It's all about context! My 1971 U87 does not sound exactly like their "old" U87. It has a much cleaner midrange and has a smoothness that I find missing in theirs. Also... none of these folks are experts per se. Just engineers with opinions. And the lead-off comment that thinks they have the same capsule? That made me laugh and ruined the credibility right from the onset. [/color] |
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Post by wiz on Jul 30, 2015 20:01:26 GMT -6
I hear the same characteristics in my U87i as that one in the video.
I liked the old one better in everything except the Voice over. (all things being equal)
the Ai is still a shit hot mic though.
Still way better than chinese capsule mics in my view.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 30, 2015 22:34:29 GMT -6
i hear the same mashup from 150-200 that your vintage 87 has wiz , my theory is that mashup is creating harmonic distortion that works its way up, spreading butter all along the way, the vintage 87 was smoother(not associated with transients), and had way more "record" character to my ears, a light roll off at 200 with a high quality shelving eq, and that mic = pure gold. the Ai was pretty nice. |
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Post by guitfiddler on Jul 31, 2015 7:05:54 GMT -6
I do like the U87 I have, can't beat the price it's being sold for, adding it to the locker. This was a bad time for a deal like this to come up. I plan for my next piece, and you know how it goes, a great deal you can't pass up comes along and you jump on it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 31, 2015 10:06:26 GMT -6
I think 87's are great...kind've a frowny face curve instead of a smiley. Honestly, I can't remember if I've ever used an AI, but I thought the old ones were awesome.
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Post by Randge on Jul 31, 2015 10:42:31 GMT -6
Here's that video... Hear all that lower mid distortion in the older U87? That's what people are raving about with the old ones. LOL . . . not as bad as you might think when placed in a mix, however. It's all about context! My 1971 U87 does not sound exactly like their "old" U87. It has a much cleaner midrange and has a smoothness that I find missing in theirs. Also... none of these folks are experts per se. Just engineers with opinions. And the lead-off comment that thinks they have the same capsule? That made me laugh and ruined the credibility right from the onset. Tell me again why plugins like Decapitator and hardware gear like the Thermonic Culture company exist?...Oh yeah, to add harmonic distortion to the sound and make tracks stand up at mix time. And why I choose some mics over others. My 87 sounds pretty tight and clean still but I have other mics that bite and distort if I am going for that. Every mic has a purpose and few do the same thing. I sure wouldn't want my 87 any cleaner sounding than it already is. |
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Post by ericn on Jul 31, 2015 12:04:52 GMT -6
I'm not an 87 fan but I'm not a hater either, it's often a good sounding mic but I any time it works I know of another mic that will work better!
In that sense I find it over priced, most of the mics it tells me to grab instead are far less expensive.
That said if I'm going to hire a room it is one of those things I expect to see or I'm going elsewhere!
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Post by Ward on Aug 1, 2015 7:19:37 GMT -6
I'm not an 87 fan but I'm not a hater either, it's often a good sounding mic but I any time it works I know of another mic that will work better! In that sense I find it over priced, most of the mics it tells me to grab instead are far less expensive. That said if I'm going to hire a room it is one of those things I expect to see or I'm going elsewhere! True. It's just the best damned utility microphone of all time. It will work or anything and everything to SOME degree. But think of it as an extremely expensive utility microphone. |
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Post by guitfiddler on Aug 1, 2015 7:52:11 GMT -6
I have to say that paired with the Burl B1D preamp I really really like this mic now.
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Post by Randge on Aug 1, 2015 8:57:35 GMT -6
That is the trick. They have to have well matched preamps and impedance is crucial to what you want to achieve.
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Post by guitfiddler on Aug 1, 2015 19:07:23 GMT -6
That is the trick. They have to have well matched preamps and impedance is crucial to what you want to achieve. Now I just need 50 more preamps...lol |
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Post by yotonic on Aug 1, 2015 19:13:35 GMT -6
All you need is a vintage Neve and a UREI 1176.
John Fields tracked this song for Parachute, I really like the vocal on it - vintage U87 - API 3124 - UREI 1178
And then Jon Kaplan mixed it and he hit it in the box with a fairchild plug and 1176 plug. So that chain took a good amount of compression and still ended up sounding rock'n roll and forward enough for today's radio.
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Post by Shannon on Aug 1, 2015 23:28:14 GMT -6
lets find a MXL and go head to head with u87 honest, someone one donate the $40 mic to me and I'll build it up. I'm not saying beat the 87 but I bet on blind test most can't tell. I bet everyone would be surprised. Atleast for shit and giggles
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 2, 2015 3:54:58 GMT -6
lets find a MXL and go head to head with u87 honest, someone one donate the $40 mic to me and I'll build it up. I'm not saying beat the 87 but I bet on blind test most can't tell. I bet everyone would be surprised. Atleast for shit and giggles I've got an MXL. You want to build it up good for shits and giggles and send it back to me for nothing and I'm in. |
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Post by guitfiddler on Aug 2, 2015 5:22:28 GMT -6
lets find a MXL and go head to head with u87 honest, someone one donate the $40 mic to me and I'll build it up. I'm not saying beat the 87 but I bet on blind test most can't tell. I bet everyone would be surprised. Atleast for shit and giggles A vintage U87i? Just wondering if you could get a newer U87Ai to sound more like a vintage U87i? I hear a big difference when I viewed the video. I prefer the vintage one on most of the sources. Come mix time you should hear a difference because that is a bigger, fuller sound, effortless bottom, and a nice upper mid smoothness and sparkle that isn't there in the newer AI model. It's almost like the realism isn't the same, and 2d vs 3d. I will listen again, but that is what I am hearing even in this older video. |
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Post by guitfiddler on Aug 2, 2015 5:28:23 GMT -6
All you need is a vintage Neve and a UREI 1176. John Fields tracked this song for Parachute, I really like the vocal on it - vintage U87 - API 3124 - UREI 1178 And then Jon Kaplan mixed it and he hit it in the box with a fairchild plug and 1176 plug. So that chain took a good amount of compression and still ended up sounding rock'n roll and forward enough for today's radio. Nice |
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Post by Shannon on Aug 2, 2015 9:22:09 GMT -6
lets find a MXL and go head to head with u87 honest, someone one donate the $40 mic to me and I'll build it up. I'm not saying beat the 87 but I bet on blind test most can't tell. I bet everyone would be surprised. Atleast for shit and giggles A vintage U87i? Just wondering if you could get a newer U87Ai to sound more like a vintage U87i? I hear a big difference when I viewed the video. I prefer the vintage one on most of the sources. Come mix time you should hear a difference because that is a bigger, fuller sound, effortless bottom, and a nice upper mid smoothness and sparkle that isn't there in the newer AI model. It's almost like the realism isn't the same, and 2d vs 3d. I will listen again, but that is what I am hearing even in this older video. Yea it's a very common request to get a U87ai to sound like the OG U87. Yea I've done quite few in the past. The OG U87 is tried and true If you have the U87 ai. They are very very acceptable to dirt they are running higher voltage and it will sound thin with such a small amount of exposure to dust , dirt. Etc. they get a bad rap due to this ( ask Randy K) he will vouch his did the same thing. Cleaned his and wow sound like a new mic. So anyone who has a 87ai and sounds like ass. And frustrated It may just be dirty. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 2, 2015 10:17:02 GMT -6
That is the trick. They have to have well matched preamps and impedance is crucial to what you want to achieve. SO very true. My U87s, vintage and ai, sound so much better on the low impedance setting of a 1073. |
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Post by Bender on May 4, 2019 15:20:13 GMT -6
I'm bumping this thread because I'm in the market/itching for a 70's u87. The hunt/research phase is always fun for me so I'm learning a lot; being this will be my 1st foray in to vintage mic land. My warbler mk1d is great but I'm craving the real deal & I mean I won't loose money investing in such a workhorse either so that's nice... Anyway, I've searched around on the purple site as well as reading a few forums on klaus's corner of the web, but wanted to get some input from fellow RGO'ers. I've narrowed it down to any 70's model in particular, don't wanna touch the 80's & beyond..... but what are your thoughts when it comes to tone & asking price for a 70's u87 with a "new" capsule. Also anyone know someone retiring/wanting to part with their neumann?
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That made me laugh and ruined the credibility right from the onset. [/color] 
