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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 17, 2015 9:21:49 GMT -6
got your back jcoutu1 and mjb's my pal so just razzing him too !
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 17, 2015 10:25:32 GMT -6
Houston, and other parts, we have a problem. All things were good to go last night. Planned to record this morning, an hour and a half later, I still can't see where my problem is, but there's a big hum on my spidif input. I didn't change settings. The Apollo wasn't seeing the SB, but I restarted a few times, and got them to sync, still have this big hum. My time's limited, so I hope I can get this worked out. Bannedchuck will try to help in a few minutes.. Here's what I'm seeing.. Attachments:
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Post by svart on Jun 17, 2015 10:48:35 GMT -6
Houston, and other parts, we have a problem. All things were good to go last night. Planned to record this morning, an hour and a half later, I still can't see where my problem is, but there's a big hum on my spidif input. I didn't change settings. The Apollo wasn't seeing the SB, but I restarted a few times, and got them to sync, still have this big hum. My time's limited, so I hope I can get this worked out. Bannedchuck will try to help in a few minutes.. Here's what I'm seeing.. Looks like something is feeding back based on that picture. Sometimes I've seen SPDIF subsystems monitor both the input and output streams at the same time and it'll do feedback internally to the interface. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 17, 2015 11:10:24 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 17, 2015 11:35:41 GMT -6
MJB's going to record zeppelin? i love zeppelin 8/ |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 17, 2015 11:37:12 GMT -6
No - that's a picture of MJB's Spdif connection.
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Post by svart on Jun 17, 2015 11:42:38 GMT -6
LOL, I called him. He figured it out.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 17, 2015 12:48:06 GMT -6
did he have spdif mirroring outs on ?
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Post by svart on Jun 17, 2015 13:20:46 GMT -6
did he have spdif mirroring outs on ? I'm not sure. We were talking about settings and he said "hey you know what... I think I fixed it" and said something about a setting he uses while working.  |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 17, 2015 14:53:45 GMT -6
Got it sorted. OK, this is rough, rough, rough, rough, rough, so bear with me, I just wanted you guys to hear something. Here's one with the SvartBox, and the next is without, all settings as identical as I could get them. It's just an unrecorded song of mine I thought would demonstrate the converter sound well. At least I hope they do.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/all-again-sb
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 17, 2015 15:08:03 GMT -6
Same song, no SvartBox:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/all-again-no-sb
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 17, 2015 15:09:11 GMT -6
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/the-best-that-you-can-do-sb
Another song, yet to be recorded. This one needs a big production, like Brothers in Arms, it's my manifesto.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 17, 2015 15:09:42 GMT -6
Same song, NO Svartbox. I think this one might accidentally be a little hotter than the previous SB take, so it's hard to judge fairly. I think there's a certain richness with the Svartbox I'll miss when it's gone.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/the-best-that-you-can-do-no-sb
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 17, 2015 15:45:40 GMT -6
Great nice to hear some tracks and I like the new songs or at least new to me. Martin and I became friends over 2 years ago on the apollo thread that cowboy started. I have heard lots of his mixes with all his different gear. He and I both use apollo's and now both have dizengoff d4 pre amps and both have also used warm audio tb12 pres. So with the non SB stock apollo recording I hear a more midrangy forward rounded off and less resolved sound ( that I associate with the apollo converters and clock) and I also hear the more open sound of the dizengoff D4. When I listen to the SB, I hear more linear, more open, more resolution and more top end. We all know how acoustic guitars can get muddy, so I liked how the SB represented martin's big martin dreadnought. I would prefer to be stacking tracks with the SB. I found Martin's voice and blackspade mike which I both know well also had nice tone and presence but more openess, space and clarity with the SB. I can hear your room in a way that I have not heard in any of your other recordings so I think the SB is capturing nuanced signal very accurately but musically, not clinically. I think the SB is much better representing the lower mid and bass; the stock apollo in comparison sounds a little murky ? I notice how both his voice is clearer and placed better in the sound and so too is his big martin ( that herbie calls the cannon)  Martin, John has commented on really missing the SB DA, you are hearing the original tracks, how would you describe/compare the DA on your Abbeys , which must be nicely broken in now ?? Thanks for posting ! ps good job svart ; that's good , balanced and accurate conversion! I understand others may hear this differently, as we all are used to our systems. I have a bla modded apollo so it is more linear that the stock but i still hear a big difference between martin's tracks that I think wood become even more pronounced as you stacked and built your mix. |
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Post by Guitar on Jun 17, 2015 16:54:36 GMT -6
I think I have a clear preference for the Svartbox examples. Especially on the guitar and drums. The transient response is just much more snappy and clear. I'm kind of mad at my Apollo now, haha, especially since the resale value has gone down so much with the new version out. There is always the BLA option though.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 17, 2015 17:48:11 GMT -6
Or you could buy the Svartbox for the same price as the BLA mod.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 17, 2015 17:52:43 GMT -6
Just came back with fresh ears, and the Apollo is chesty, much the same way an 1176 pushes mids forward, the SvartBox is much more natural. It's relieving a lot of that digital haze that's difficult to recognize, but makes you turn music off without thinking about why.
Just so you guys know, this was done with one mic. I used my Blackspade UM-17 Blueline, I also happen to have the Avantone BV-12 here on loan and would have used the BV-12 as a guitar mic, but I didn't want to mess with phasing issues for the svart test.
My speakers aren't here, they'll be back in a couple of days, (long story), so I'm looking forward to hearing this on my monitors too!
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Post by sopwith on Jun 17, 2015 19:35:38 GMT -6
Svart box with the clear win here vs. Apollo on ADC. Time to start saving for that 8 channel version ;-)
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 17, 2015 20:03:43 GMT -6
Yes. indeed sopwith.
The Apollo was a brilliant design, but it's weak points revealed themselves over time. It was to me, the greatest bang for the buck piece of gear I'd ever seen, but as a one solution box, it fell just short of my needs. They've addressed every basic issue with the new Apollo's, so I'm hoping the new converters take it that last step higher. This way I can forget about what I'm missing, and get on with making music.
I'll worry about things like a Burl or a White Sparrow if I start making money with my music again. Frankly, I'd probably get the Svartbox if the Apollo disappoints.
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Post by sopwith on Jun 18, 2015 4:23:52 GMT -6
Well I meant *I* need to start saving up for the 8 channel version - this result is pretty exciting. Apollo seems like a totally usable interface which also serves as the UAD dongle. I can dig that. But at this point, I think it's too late for me to buy in to the ecosystem - I'll just go for a svart box, adat or AES card/interface, and native plugs. Svart - you KNOW you want to make an 8 channel box with ADAT or AES |
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Post by svart on Jun 18, 2015 8:15:31 GMT -6
Well I meant *I* need to start saving up for the 8 channel version - this result is pretty exciting. Apollo seems like a totally usable interface which also serves as the UAD dongle. I can dig that. But at this point, I think it's too late for me to buy in to the ecosystem - I'll just go for a svart box, adat or AES card/interface, and native plugs. Svart - you KNOW you want to make an 8 channel box with ADAT or AES AES is only 2 channels.. So 8 channels of AES would be like having 4 of my stereo boxes! What I need to do is go big and do a 56/64 channel MADI converter! MADI is the 56/64 channel version of AES/SPDIF. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 18, 2015 8:20:26 GMT -6
Yikes, I can barely wear my head around one stereo converter!
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Post by svart on Jun 18, 2015 8:30:51 GMT -6
Yikes, I can barely wear my head around one stereo converter! No worries, I'm not up to something like that anyway. That would be a significant project to implement. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 18, 2015 8:46:07 GMT -6
Meant "wrap"of course.
Having the SvartBox was worth the effort it took me to get it all working. I've educated myself regarding the effect converters can have. I had the BLA Microclock, and the Burl for a week. The Microclock made listening slightly clearer, but wasn't a deal breaker, the Burl was beautiful, but too expensive, and not necessarily where I might put $2,200 if I had it for gear. I can see how great it might be to track with a Burl Mothership.
But the SvartBox made it perfectly clear, I'm not crazy. I've been trying to mix my tracks forever and just can't seem to get it right. What's been missing, is better converters. The tone I've been trying to "mix out" is the effect the Apollo converters have on the whole track. At least I finally know where I need to go to get what I want from a home system. Either the new Apollo, or the new Apollo and the SvartBox. Time will tell.
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Post by svart on Jun 18, 2015 9:05:12 GMT -6
Meant "wrap"of course. Having the SvartBox was worth the effort it took me to get it all working. I've educated myself regarding the effect converters can have. I had the BLA Microclock, and the Burl for a week. The Microclock made listening slightly clearer, but wasn't a deal breaker, the Burl was beautiful, but too expensive, and not necessarily where I might put $2,200 if I had it for gear. I can see how great it might be to track with a Burl Mothership. But the SvartBox made it perfectly clear, I'm not crazy. I've been trying to mix my tracks forever and just can't seem to get it right. What's been missing, is better converters. The tone I've been trying to "mix out" is the effect the Apollo converters have on the whole track. At least I finally know where I need to go to get what I want from a home system. Either the new Apollo, or the new Apollo and the SvartBox. Time will tell. I think your recordings of the Apollo and the ones that John did show the same results, with the Apollo having a strange midrange thing happening. |
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