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Post by littlesicily on Oct 10, 2013 9:30:48 GMT -6
I have proac's showing up tomorrow. Great, Dan!
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 10, 2013 10:51:05 GMT -6
Very cool! Report back!
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Post by svart on Oct 10, 2013 10:58:28 GMT -6
Now I really want to do a shootout with my monitors and someone's ProAC setup. Anybody near atlanta want to organize that one day?
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 10, 2013 11:42:28 GMT -6
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Post by dandeurloo on Oct 12, 2013 22:06:20 GMT -6
ProAc's = I'm currently using a high end class D amp. I'm gonna try another one at some point but I am very pleased. Massive upgrade from my sE Eggs that VK talked me into buying.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 13, 2013 14:38:08 GMT -6
What is a class D amp?
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Post by svart on Oct 14, 2013 7:28:23 GMT -6
It's an amp that uses PWM as the power source and then uses an RLC filter for sine reconstruction. It's more efficient than Class A, B or A/B and can lead to much higher power outputs for the same specs as any of the previous classes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 14, 2013 8:31:53 GMT -6
hey svart, why is it that high current class A or A/B generally has sounded better than D IME? As an example, i've been creating a new monitoring system, utilizing a pair of ProAc clonish, and a Sub woof, i'm using class A, high current, Jim Williams Adcom for the ProAc's, and a class D plate amp for the sub, the class A is very nice through the entire frequency range, the class D is powerful/dirty, but the dirt isn't supposed to matter because it doesn't show up in the sub frequencies? (this is what i've been told/read about the 300W class D plate amp, i have NOT used it yet, i believe this with little real explanation as to why it's distortion specs are inferior/don't matter, i'm just taking it on faith)
can you speak a little toward the significant diffs between classes?...in layman terms. thanx T
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Post by svart on Oct 14, 2013 9:39:31 GMT -6
Class A is nice because since it pulls constant currents at all times, you have no change in distortion as the signal passes 0. The downside is that it consumes a lot of current all the time, so it's hot and not very efficient, and since you always have currents through the output, typically that means a lot of DC offset and therefore blocking caps are needed. Single ended amplifiers are almost always considered Class A, there are a few rare hybrid types though.
Class B is almost always created from "push-pull" elements. It's a bit more efficient since during one half of the cycle, one of the push or pull elements are (mostly)off. This unfortunately means any mismatch between the push or pull elements will cause "crossover" distortion.
Class AB attempts to make the best of both worlds, by allowing both of the push and pull sections to source current similar to class A. The short story is that AB operates like class A on very low level signals and becomes more like class B on loud signals. More detail is that during crossover, each section still conducts slightly so it minimizes the crossover distortion.
Some of the higher classes, E though H are takes on other classes, mostly class D, and I think those are mostly marketing terms rather than truly separate classes.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 14, 2013 11:01:15 GMT -6
My Emotiva XPA-1L mono blocks are A/AB. They can operate up to 35W in Class A.
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Post by dandeurloo on Oct 14, 2013 13:02:32 GMT -6
I have heard a number of really outstanding class D amps. The one I am using is a very high end build based around ICE tech. Its 1000w per side! I have also heard some Hypex amps that sound really great. When I get back form AES this year I hope to compare this amp to a Hypex version and then decide which one stays with the ProAc's. There are a ton of people who use and love class D amps. They are very fast and powerful. We should get someone smarter like Scott Liebers or Dan Kennedy to explain all the upsides to class D amps. The things I know about them is that they are very efficient, flat, fast response and affordable amps. Barefoot uses ICE in there speakers and ATC or focal I believe use Hypex in their highend stuff. So its great stuff used by many top brands and engineers.
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Post by c0rtland on Jan 31, 2018 13:40:31 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 31, 2018 14:52:44 GMT -6
No, Amphions One 18s.
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Post by littlesicily on Jan 31, 2018 15:08:10 GMT -6
I moved on, as well, from ProAcs though I would love another pair if I had room. I've found having 3 ref speakers are helpful for me. Mains (check low end, stereo image, start and end mix here) currently ATC scm50aslpro Medium/nearfield - vocal balance, guitars, mid-range detail - currently loving these cheap Yamaha HS5's Small - final balancing, see how kick/bass and other low end translate on small speakers, phones, etc. - Currently using a Sony ZS-RS60BT I got on eBay for $30.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jan 31, 2018 20:42:34 GMT -6
I have A7x and NS10 currently and was looking to Amphions. Did you try out the One 15s? If so how did you feel about them in regards to bass extension? I am wondering if I should just stretch my budget a bit further. (I will see if there are any in the country for me to listen too.)
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 31, 2018 22:27:40 GMT -6
Focal Shapes IMO blow the doors off anything I've tried as of recent.
I was a ProAc guy too, the beauty of something like the Amphions or Focal's is that you get the clarity but you also get a really accurate picture of the mid-range and lowend build up. But, I will say, if I just had the cash to spare I'd buy another pair, the top-end on those speakers is really amazing.
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Post by winetree on Jan 31, 2018 22:50:18 GMT -6
"Focal Shapes IMO blow the doors off anything I've tried as of recent."
What model?
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 31, 2018 23:26:56 GMT -6
I have the Shape 50's.... Others have said the 65's are great too, only think I felt with those was I got a better idea of the bass build up and being able to carve that out more. The 50 to me was just right.
Just like Sal said about the HS5's, with the smaller driver you can balance your mixes much easier and more accurately. The Shapes being basically a sealed cab go beyond that and give you a perfect picture of your transient detail, both in the low-mid to mid range. That's massively important if you're aiming at the radio. That detail is what makes mixes collapse on the radio unless you've got it right. Also mixes that seem to pump on the radio, that's another example of whoever mixed it wasn't hearing that transient detail correctly.
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Post by svart on Feb 1, 2018 6:57:36 GMT -6
I have the Shape 50's.... Others have said the 65's are great too, only think I felt with those was I got a better idea of the bass build up and being able to carve that out more. The 50 to me was just right. Just like Sal said about the HS5's, with the smaller driver you can balance your mixes much easier and more accurately. The Shapes being basically a sealed cab go beyond that and give you a perfect picture of your transient detail, both in the low-mid to mid range. That's massively important if you're aiming at the radio. That detail is what makes mixes collapse on the radio unless you've got it right. Also mixes that seem to pump on the radio, that's another example of whoever mixed it wasn't hearing that transient detail correctly. I looked these up. I really like the shape twins.. I wonder how they sound compared to the 6.5's..
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 1, 2018 11:09:14 GMT -6
I have A7x and NS10 currently and was looking to Amphions. Did you try out the One 15s? If so how did you feel about them in regards to bass extension? I am wondering if I should just stretch my budget a bit further. (I will see if there are any in the country for me to listen too.) There were things about the 15s I liked almost more than the 18s. Super relaxed, detailed midrange. As far as bass extension, I use a sub, so I don’t think I can really speak to that.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 1, 2018 11:13:27 GMT -6
The one fifteens let you know the bass is there but they have a mid forward and natural rolled off top end. They are quicker than the one 18’s in a good way but don’t the one 18’s expansive sound stage.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Feb 1, 2018 13:10:05 GMT -6
Sounds like the one18 would be a better replacement for my A7x. The shapes sound interesting though.
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Post by john on Feb 1, 2018 13:14:04 GMT -6
I picked up a set of used one18 about a month ago. totally in love with them. getting the best low end translation ive ever experienced.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 1, 2018 13:31:17 GMT -6
Sounds like the one18 would be a better replacement for my A7x. The shapes sound interesting though. They are wonderful, so I’d certainly recommend you try them. I recently shot out dyn Lyd 48s, and Focal Shape 5.0 and 6.5. I know I like passive radiators and I went with the 6.5, they are not as voluptuous as the one 18’s but they are fast and tight, do have good bass and an extended high end with on board dsp which is handy for tweaking. If you are in a medium or larger room, the one 18’s or Dyn lyd’s should be wonderful with the right amp if your room is smaller to medium I think Focal really got the Shape design brief right and for me all round they have been the best performer, try to audition if you can .
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Post by ericn on Feb 1, 2018 14:31:09 GMT -6
If your thinking Amphion 18's do give the ATC SCM20 and Quested H108 passives a listen as well, while neither will work as well as the Amphions in a small realativly untreated room like John's, that what a wave guide can do! The low Distortion of the ATC's or the realativly low Distortion and ability to go lower of the Quested Volt 8 is very different from that of the Amphion. Though load differently 2 of those Same model Volts had my neighbor searching for the sub here on Monday because he couldn't believe "the 2 little 8's per side killed his 12in sub & with only 50 watts" running the little Quested amp because somebody offered me way to much for my JW modded GFA555, time to buy another one have Jim Mod it and have some cash, plus a freind is impressing his Audiofile boss with the Krell this weekend!
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