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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 29, 2023 18:01:41 GMT -6
I'm looking to upgrade monitors.
Current Setup:
1 - Adam A7's with Tannoy Sub
2 - NHT SuperOnes with Adcom Amp
The NHT's translate way better. They sound like shit unless your mix sounds good. The Adam's are more fun and pleasing to listen to, but they kind of sound too good. I really like that the NHT's make me work for it. I do 80% of my mixing on them. So it's time for an update but I'm not sure what to get. Leaning towards the following:
Adam a7v
Neuman kh120
Amphion One15
ATC scm12
The only reason I'm looking at the new Adam's is because I'm so familiar with Adam's sound, and who knows, maybe I love them? I've learned that I generally like dome tweeters even though ribbons are pleasing to listen to. Domes just seem to translate better for me. I also tend to like sealed cabinets. However the Adam A7v, and the Neuman KH120 have the ability to run room correction directly on the monitors themselves...which could be great...or not...idk.
The one thing I'd really like to improve is the mid-range translation of my mixes. I have a very narrow sweet spot in my room. I find getting that perfect balance or Vocals/Snare/Guitars etc to be challenging. To that end, maybe I should be looking at Amphions/Neumans that have bigger wave guides?
What I'm trying to avoid is speakers that sound too good. I want monitors that make me work for it...hard. I want something unforgiving, but not fatiguing.
I'm planning on auditioning the KH120's and A7v's but I can't easily audition the Amphions or ATC's. No one carries them around Portland. Are there any other speakers I should be considering? My budget is up to $3500. I could potentially find a pair of KH120's or a7v's AND also get the ATC's or Amphions. My wallet would hate me but it might be worth it. Then again, the NHT's are serving me pretty well so I'll probably just replace the Adam a7's. Not sure.
When it comes to mid-range detail, translation etc how are the above speakers?
ps: I realize I could get something in the $3k - $4k range but most all of the high end monitors I've heard in that price range sound "too good" to me if that makes any sense.
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 29, 2023 19:02:53 GMT -6
With your budget at $3500, you should try to hear a pair of the Dynaudio LYD48s. They're quite a bit less than the top end of your budget.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 29, 2023 19:30:55 GMT -6
With your budget at $3500, you should try to hear a pair of the Dynaudio LYD48s. They're quite a bit less than the top end of your budget. Thought about those, but I was worried they're too big for my room. Those are more mid fields no? The handful of times I've heard dynaudios I liked them. The Core 59's I heard sounded so deep and beautiful it was crazy, reminded me of Dutch and Dutch 8c's in that regard. I was entertaining the idea of getting Dynaudio Core 7's but again, I'm worried they'll sound "too good". Not sure if that makes sense to people...but I just find I work better on speakers that really make you sweat. I'm hoping to find a balance by using two sets of monitors (which is what I'm doing now). One set that is more "fun" and enjoyable, while still being usefull and detailed. And another set that doesn't hide any of the warts.. |
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Post by brenta on Mar 29, 2023 19:51:41 GMT -6
I used to have a pair of the SuperOnes and still have a pair of SuperZeros. Since you're using the SuperOnes, I assume you're not afraid to use passive speakers. I can give you a couple passive bookshelf ideas. If you get a speaker switcher you could add a pair of these to your current setup using the Adcom without paying a lot of money compared to active speakers.
Wharfedale Diamond-- There are several iterations of these; I have the Diamond 9.1's. These have dome tweeters. The Wharfedales are going to be on the darker/warmer side of the spectrum, in fact, some commercial releases sound arguably too dark playing through these. Because of their darker sound the are extremely non-fatiguing to listen to. The midrange detail is fantastic and the low end is nice too. Well recorded electric guitars sound very nice on these. You can find a pair of these used for $150.
Chane 1.5's-- These are kind of the opposite of the Wharfedales. These have a planar "leaf" tweeter. They are super open and transparent, and some might say bright. I used to have a pair of Adam A7X's, and while I didn't hate them, I didn't think they were anything special. The Chanes are everything I had hoped the Adams would be. These are some of the most detailed speakers I've ever heard, and I tend to find a lot of problems with these speakers that my other speakers don't reveal. These come with a pair of port plugs that you can use to transform them to a sealed cabinet. You lose some low end doing that, but that can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your room and preferences.
I've also got a pair of NS10s and a mono Avantone here but I use the Wharfedales and Chanes more. The Wharfedales and Chanes complement each other really well. I like both of them better than the SuperOnes and SuperZeros, although I do occasionally still use the SuperZeros for some specialized tasks.
Some other passive bookshelfs that I haven't tried but would like to: B&W LM1, KEF, older Tannoys, and the Ascend Sierras with the ribbon tweeters.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 30, 2023 5:45:02 GMT -6
I’d try the lyd48,
Also, as you’re in the states, there’s a pair of the neumann 3 way on GS.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 30, 2023 8:06:30 GMT -6
For anyone using Lyd 48’s, how far away are you sitting from them and how big/small is your room?
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Post by mcirish on Mar 30, 2023 8:57:24 GMT -6
I use LYD48's in my studio. The mixing room is 9' x 19.5' with an 8 foot ceiling. LYD48's are not very big at all. They would work fine in even a smaller room. BUT, honestly, Sonarworks is what changed my mixes the most. When I got the LYD48's, I was mixing an album. I still had issues in the low end. I bought Sonarworks right after that mix was done and did another album with Sonarworks. The difference is night and day, literally. From the measurements, I found two huge problems my room was creating. I had an 8dB dip at 90HZ, so I was always boosting that. There was also a smaller dip around 250. I can now trust that what I hear is correct. I'd suggest getting some room correction software first. You may find your speakers are more than adequate. I do like the LYD48's though. I'd buy them again.
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Post by theshea on Mar 30, 2023 9:50:39 GMT -6
For anyone using Lyd 48’s, how far away are you sitting from them and how big/small is your room? 1.3 m from the speakers in a 22squaremeter threated room. i listen at 82-85db. i balance on my mono avantone mixcube and mix on my lyd 48‘s. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 30, 2023 11:05:21 GMT -6
Sell the Adams and rely on the NHTs more. Keep your money. The Neumanns and DSPed Genelecs are overpriced with low headroom. If you want something even more brutal than what you listed, check out a Fostex 6301. It has more extension and detail than an Auratone 5C while being powered. Thanks Dan. Not sure if it was clear in my post but yes, I plan on selling the Adam’s and either keeping the NHT’s or replacing them also. My troubles are more in midrange balance. I do pretty well in the low end (although always room for improvement). My room/monitor combo gives a very small sweet spot, I move my head 2inches and the sound changes, sometimes dramatically. My room is already treated as much as humanely possibly given it’s size (and my budget). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2023 11:05:39 GMT -6
Sell the Adams and rely on the NHTs more. Keep your money. The Neumanns and DSPed Genelecs are overpriced with low headroom.
If you want something even more brutal than what you listed, check out a Fostex 6301. It has more extension and detail than an Auratone 5C while being powered.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 30, 2023 11:09:42 GMT -6
I use LYD48's in my studio. The mixing room is 9' x 19.5' with an 8 foot ceiling. LYD48's are not very big at all. They would work fine in even a smaller room. BUT, honestly, Sonarworks is what changed my mixes the most. When I got the LYD48's, I was mixing an album. I still had issues in the low end. I bought Sonarworks right after that mix was done and did another album with Sonarworks. The difference is night and day, literally. From the measurements, I found two huge problems my room was creating. I had an 8dB dip at 90HZ, so I was always boosting that. There was also a smaller dip around 250. I can now trust that what I hear is correct. I'd suggest getting some room correction software first. You may find your speakers are more than adequate. I do like the LYD48's though. I'd buy them again. Thanks, looks life from everyone’s suggestions I should check out the lyd 48’s too. Regarding sonar works. I’ve been using/not using IK ARC for years. In my current setup it doesn’t really help, just makes things different sounding. Sonar works looks to be a bit better, and I’ll probably go down that road after i upgrade. But that’s one of the reasons im interested in Adam’s, being able to have sonar works loaded on the speaker itself is a huge benefit when switching between two sets of monitors. |
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Post by RealNoob on Mar 30, 2023 11:36:32 GMT -6
For anyone using Lyd 48’s, how far away are you sitting from them and how big/small is your room? Room: 11x14x9
Monitors are 6-7ft apart: I am just inside that triangle, can back up as needed but literally, I never hear a difference. I run them full range and I have a sub band-passed at 50hz. It doesn't really do much at all and is not loud. I am just filling in that sub-range a hair. All of this is run through Sonarworks Sound ID. I have a bump at 40hz and 120hz, and minor fluctuations up from there. The thing I felt SW did was remove a slight boxiness I hear in my room and bring down a bump at about 16K (weird with the absorption I have). They sound very natural. I feel the mids are a little relaxed but i think that is the Dynaudio sound, in contrast to the Genelec 8330s with their midrange bump. -- edit -- I will say that setting vocal level is not awesome on the LYDs. I prefer the Genneys or Avantones for that. If I do it on the LYDs, they end up too loud. |
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Post by mamm7215 on Mar 30, 2023 17:11:20 GMT -6
Definitely get rid of the Adams. I have no idea how anyone can mix on A7's. I have original APS Klasiks and just bought NDH-30 phones. I can get an almost done 1st mix on the NDH-30s with Realphones correction now. I secondary check on the monitors but if you can learn a good set of cans with correction, you may not "need" monitors like you believe. JMHO.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 30, 2023 17:16:29 GMT -6
I used to have a pair of the SuperOnes and still have a pair of SuperZeros. Since you're using the SuperOnes, I assume you're not afraid to use passive speakers. I can give you a couple passive bookshelf ideas. If you get a speaker switcher you could add a pair of these to your current setup using the Adcom without paying a lot of money compared to active speakers. Wharfedale Diamond-- There are several iterations of these; I have the Diamond 9.1's. These have dome tweeters. The Wharfedales are going to be on the darker/warmer side of the spectrum, in fact, some commercial releases sound arguably too dark playing through these. Because of their darker sound the are extremely non-fatiguing to listen to. The midrange detail is fantastic and the low end is nice too. Well recorded electric guitars sound very nice on these. You can find a pair of these used for $150. Chane 1.5's-- These are kind of the opposite of the Wharfedales. These have a planar "leaf" tweeter. They are super open and transparent, and some might say bright. I used to have a pair of Adam A7X's, and while I didn't hate them, I didn't think they were anything special. The Chanes are everything I had hoped the Adams would be. These are some of the most detailed speakers I've ever heard, and I tend to find a lot of problems with these speakers that my other speakers don't reveal. These come with a pair of port plugs that you can use to transform them to a sealed cabinet. You lose some low end doing that, but that can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your room and preferences. I've also got a pair of NS10s and a mono Avantone here but I use the Wharfedales and Chanes more. The Wharfedales and Chanes complement each other really well. I like both of them better than the SuperOnes and SuperZeros, although I do occasionally still use the SuperZeros for some specialized tasks. Some other passive bookshelfs that I haven't tried but would like to: B&W LM1, KEF, older Tannoys, and the Ascend Sierras with the ribbon tweeters. Those Chane and Wharedale's look interesting. I've been wondering about the KEF LS50's too. I hear people talk about them from time to time. I wonder if be coaxial helps with a wider sweet spot? Paging ericn |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 30, 2023 17:20:50 GMT -6
Definitely get rid of the Adams. I have no idea how anyone can mix on A7's. I have original APS Klasiks and just bought NDH-30 phones. I can get an almost done 1st mix on the NDH-30s with Realphones correction now. I secondary check on the monitors but if you can learn a good set of cans with correction, you may not "need" monitors like you believe. JMHO. Yeah I've struggled to mix on them for years, even though I find the sound enjoyable. I would be looking at APS Klasiks and Aeons but seems like they're not available at the moment, I'm assuming supply chain issues. How would describe the NDH-30's? I've actually been mixing quite a bit on my Beyer DT990's and getting pretty good results. I just heard a pair of Sennheiser HD 400 pro's at GC and they sounded super detailed. The separation was amazing, super analytical. My first gut reaction was that I really like them. After the monitor upgrade I very well may dig into a headphone upgrade. IDK...so many ways to spend my money...lol |
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Post by jmoose on Mar 30, 2023 20:08:40 GMT -6
My troubles are more in midrange balance. I do pretty well in the low end (although always room for improvement). My room/monitor combo gives a very small sweet spot, I move my head 2inches and the sound changes, sometimes dramatically. My room is already treated as much as humanely possibly given it’s size (and my budget). This says more to me then anything else... If the room is truly sorted there should be a wide sweet spot especially in the midrange & treble. Measured in feet not inches and certainly nothing dramatic. Maybe your space is overly treated? Seen that a few times... Speakers that make me work? That'd be Adams for one. I don't mind them but nothing has ever translated without surprises... like oh so that's where the bottom ended up reaching? Huh ok. Doesn't matter which model. More of a general voicing thing. Probably also not super helpful? The Amphions are one of the most bizzare speakers I've ever attempted to work on. Nothing made sense anymore maybe like being in zero gravity or something. Had to beg for NS10s. Neumann kh120 are probably my favs of what you mentioned. I do love the detail they're sorta like really hi fi NS10s in that way... but... they won't move much air if & when you need to crank up... (hear a limiter kicking in sooner then I'd like) and sorta like the NS10? Everything under 100 Hz is a mystery. I've worked on them a bunch & either need a sub or second set, like a true mid field / main to avoid missing plosives, room rumble... sort out where the lowest octaves really fall. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Mar 31, 2023 8:33:36 GMT -6
I was in the same boat a while ago, had some krk’s, I did not have the same budget though, so i actually went with a mint second hand pair adam a7x i got for a good price. The reason I have been keeping the krk’s in the house ‘til now is that I have almost exclusively moved to mixing with headphones and don’t work with monitors that much. I am really happy with the adams so far, and actually do now mix at times again with the monitors for some change. With your budget I would maybe look into the S series if adam is an option. Or a set of A77H which I just heard sounds amazing. I feel the a7x gives enough low end to work with, I don’t miss a sub.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 31, 2023 11:20:22 GMT -6
I was in the same boat a while ago, had some krk’s, I did not have the same budget though, so i actually went with a mint second hand pair adam a7x i got for a good price. The reason I have been keeping the krk’s in the house ‘til now is that I have almost exclusively moved to mixing with headphones and don’t work with monitors that much. I am really happy with the adams so far, and actually do now mix at times again with the monitors for some change. With your budget I would maybe look into the S series if adam is an option. Or a set of A77H which I just heard sounds amazing. I feel the a7x gives enough low end to work with, I don’t miss a sub. What headphones you using? I’ve been doing more and more on my Beyer 990’s |
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Post by ericn on Mar 31, 2023 12:58:35 GMT -6
I used to have a pair of the SuperOnes and still have a pair of SuperZeros. Since you're using the SuperOnes, I assume you're not afraid to use passive speakers. I can give you a couple passive bookshelf ideas. If you get a speaker switcher you could add a pair of these to your current setup using the Adcom without paying a lot of money compared to active speakers. Wharfedale Diamond-- There are several iterations of these; I have the Diamond 9.1's. These have dome tweeters. The Wharfedales are going to be on the darker/warmer side of the spectrum, in fact, some commercial releases sound arguably too dark playing through these. Because of their darker sound the are extremely non-fatiguing to listen to. The midrange detail is fantastic and the low end is nice too. Well recorded electric guitars sound very nice on these. You can find a pair of these used for $150. Chane 1.5's-- These are kind of the opposite of the Wharfedales. These have a planar "leaf" tweeter. They are super open and transparent, and some might say bright. I used to have a pair of Adam A7X's, and while I didn't hate them, I didn't think they were anything special. The Chanes are everything I had hoped the Adams would be. These are some of the most detailed speakers I've ever heard, and I tend to find a lot of problems with these speakers that my other speakers don't reveal. These come with a pair of port plugs that you can use to transform them to a sealed cabinet. You lose some low end doing that, but that can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your room and preferences. I've also got a pair of NS10s and a mono Avantone here but I use the Wharfedales and Chanes more. The Wharfedales and Chanes complement each other really well. I like both of them better than the SuperOnes and SuperZeros, although I do occasionally still use the SuperZeros for some specialized tasks. Some other passive bookshelfs that I haven't tried but would like to: B&W LM1, KEF, older Tannoys, and the Ascend Sierras with the ribbon tweeters. Those Chane and Wharedale's look interesting. I've been wondering about the KEF LS50's too. I hear people talk about them from time to time. I wonder if be coaxial helps with a wider sweet spot? Paging ericn I’m home from the Hospital recovering from COVID 2.0, so I’m just kind of learking but I’ll say this the KEF’s and or the discontinued Pioneers are what I’m looking at for ATMOS. If I were say Neumann I would either Copy the KEF or buy the Riggs to the Pioneers and clear up. The only reason the Keyes are not the modern NS10 is they don’t have an XLR! |
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Post by niklas1073 on Mar 31, 2023 17:21:44 GMT -6
I was in the same boat a while ago, had some krk’s, I did not have the same budget though, so i actually went with a mint second hand pair adam a7x i got for a good price. The reason I have been keeping the krk’s in the house ‘til now is that I have almost exclusively moved to mixing with headphones and don’t work with monitors that much. I am really happy with the adams so far, and actually do now mix at times again with the monitors for some change. With your budget I would maybe look into the S series if adam is an option. Or a set of A77H which I just heard sounds amazing. I feel the a7x gives enough low end to work with, I don’t miss a sub. What headphones you using? I’ve been doing more and more on my Beyer 990’s After some trial and error I have for now settled for akg702 since a few years back. I like their kind of boring sound, doesn't fatigue the ears, and where they really stand out compared to some others I've tried like sennheiser 6XX series is the highs. The top end is transparent and easy to get hold of. The one thing I battled for some time with them was the low end, and there I had to use monitors to get that right. Eventually I learned the 702’s and now I can even mix the low end with them pretty well. I do check of course the final result also with monitors, especially since I have a pair I trust. |
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Post by RealNoob on Mar 31, 2023 22:15:22 GMT -6
I just wanted to say that the laid back style of the LYD's don't help with dealing with some upper mid issues. Even with very few reported variances in that range and with Sonarworks, I am not hearing issues I hear elsewhere. I was listening to a track in the car where a 1.5-2K issue was popping up. I assume the car speakers are thin and showing a transient that the LYDs can't reproduce. The Genneys do better (a little) with the tradeoff of a constant mid forward bump. Sounds like I am needing NS10s. The Avantaones don't show it either - wish I still had my PSIs.
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Post by tasteliketape on Apr 4, 2023 18:58:44 GMT -6
For
My small room at home I tried Goodhertz can opener plugin also real phones plugin both got me close to the studio mix .Beyerdynamics DT 770 32 ohm
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 17, 2023 14:38:32 GMT -6
Can anyone recommend a good retailer (with a fair return policy) to pick up a pair of Amphion One15’s and/or ATC scm12’s?
I reached out to my sweet water rep to see what shipping and return costs would be if I bought them to audition and was told “he couldn’t accommodate me”…honestly I don’t think he understood my question.
But while I’m waiting for clarification any one got any tips? Any good go to retailers that have made the speaker buying process easy for you?
I was thinking of hitting up a Vintage King, maybe alto music too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2023 14:50:26 GMT -6
Can anyone recommend a good retailer (with a fair return policy) to pick up a pair of Amphion One15’s and/or ATC scm12’s? I reached out to my sweet water rep to see what shipping and return costs would be if I bought them to audition and was told “he couldn’t accommodate me”…honestly I don’t think he understood my question. But while I’m waiting for clarification any one got any tips? Any good go to retailers that have made the speaker buying process easy for you? I was thinking of hitting up a Vintage King, maybe alto music too. Warren at Zen Pro Front End Audio Alto Music B&H has a ton of post production focused equipment Chuck Levin’s is more of an instrument store but has some decent monitors. But only Alto Music stocks ATC. They’re too speciality and too mass market (big retailer targeted because they would take up shelf space at smaller ones) at the same time. Sweetwater and Vintage King only if absolutely necessary. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 17, 2023 15:22:36 GMT -6
So I just heard back from sweetwater, I’m kind of shocked actually. I thought maybe my rep misunderstood my question, but I was just told that they couldn’t accommodate my purchase if there was a chance that I would return either/both sets of monitors.
To be clear, I was asking what the restocking fee and shipping fees would be if I bought both monitors and returned either set. So basically because I was upfront about my search for monitors they won’t let me buy them, but if I just purchases them without saying anything it would be fine to return them (less shipping/restocking).
Looks like a good reason to shop somewhere else for all my needs.
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