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Post by Rock Kennedy on Jun 22, 2014 12:45:53 GMT -6
Lawson L47 www.lawsonmicrophones.com/product/L47MP.htmlYou will find quite a few people with a lot of love for this mic. (I realize it is right over your price point, but it's really close and you could save several hundred going used.) |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2014 13:35:32 GMT -6
Maybe look at he Blackspade line? I recently did a shootout on a restored vintage Neve board with my Blackspade U17 R Blueline against the Lauten Atlantis. At first the Atlantis seems incredible, HUGE bottom, lush, made me sing well, the U17 seemed thin in comparison. Threw them into a mix, and the Blackspade just smoked the Lauten, like it was pre-mixed, almost no EQ needed.The Atlantis need a lot of EQ to balance the low end, which made it lose something in the process, and was way more sibilant. Is Blackspade still selling mics? Looks like Oliver Archut has broken ties with them. I should clarify that statement considering the guys at Blackspade don't care for me too much (considering I started a stink about their relationship with Tim Campbell)...I have no idea if Oliver "cut ties"...It might have been just a short OEM contract with them. I always thought their mics were aesthetically pleasing and sounded really good. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2014 13:38:27 GMT -6
Maybe look at he Blackspade line? FYI...that line as it was previously known is no more...Blackspade and Oliver Archut have since parted ways...those former Blackspade mics are now badged "TAB": www.tab-funkenwerk.com/id92.htmlwww.tab-funkenwerk.com/id134.html...as for Blackspade, they are currently testing entirely new designs, fully conceived in house and manufactured in Europe... Ah...I should have read the whole post first. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 22, 2014 13:48:38 GMT -6
Yes, I forgot about that. Shouldn't have said ":Blackspade",.Oliver sells the same mic at www.tab-funkenwerk.comI'm fairly sure that Oliver owns the patents on the designs. Oliver says they sound similar to the Neumann U49, which is known for it's smooth high end, best used for female vocals, although my vocals sound pretty good.. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2014 13:56:59 GMT -6
About Shannon's "mod"...I guess it's really not a "mod" so much as it's a full capsule replacement. He sputters his capsules himself and tensions them in a way that can make the mics sound very different. There are also secret sauce things that are done with other parts of the capsule assemblies and only know to the great Shannon himself. The whole modifying the Miktek thing started a couple of years ago...there were several people around (including myself) that thought a lot of the Miktek CV4, but still thought it had a Chinese "zing" (harshness) when you really pushed it. Like it would freak out at certain frequencies and not stay particularly consistent throughout the frequency range. But - it was a well conceived layout and nice sounding microphone. It so happened that jsteiger had recently purchased Dolly Parton's ELA M 251 and was visiting from the Great White North. There was a gathering at Clint Lagerberg's house and Sahnnon did some tweaking (Can't remember whether he actually replaced the capsule in that first incarnation - but I think he did) and he tried to match Jeff's 251. That went well enough that I gave Shannon my mic, he replaced the capsule with one of his own making and it went from, there. I guess mine has been kind of the guinea pig since then...Although, mine got to a certain point that I didn't want him to touch it, so I missed some of the newest non cap adjusting stuff he's doing (which makes the sound even more consistent and smooth IMHO.) I compared my mic to cowboycoalminer's U67 and was honestly kind of shocked at how close it sounded. And it was totally unintended. Shannon nor I had ever even heard it. Imagine how close he could get if he set out to clone the two? The point was never to sound "exactly like" another mic, but to sound exactly like a mic that sounded the best on MY voice. Anyway, I think this is still THE BEST option as you can get for under $2500. (Miktek + Mod) I have a feeling it's going to be considered like the Steven Paul and Fred Cameron U87 Mods in the future. Highly prized. |
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 22, 2014 14:46:51 GMT -6
Anyway, I think this is still THE BEST option as you can get for under $2500. (Miktek + Mod) I have a feeling it's going to be considered like the Steven Paul and Fred Cameron U87 Mods in the future. Highly prized. ...well that's one man's opinion...no disrespect implied... |
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Post by ephi82 on Jun 22, 2014 15:08:07 GMT -6
Wow, loving this new to me, forum. Great suggestions
Here is my thing, I have read many recommendations that this mic or that mic sounds like a u47, but whem I have had the rare opportunity to hear samples, they disappoint.
The Clipalator at Zen Pro Audio is interesting, but the male vocalist they use is completely without any kind of instrument you would want to put a 47 on. (its excruciating) Warren has a pretty good collection of mics sampled, but none have the kind of low end that I am looking for. Closest is a vintage U87. Of course, there aren't a lot of boutique mics represented and certainly none of the folks that have been mentioned here who are modding stuff.
I guess that's the thing, I dont mind spending $1500-$2000 on a mic that meets what I am looking for, even if I cant resell without a loss (as in a no name modded mic form a great guy working out of his house) but where's my protection that I am getting what I am expecting and what I am paying for?
I've heard too many little clips on a variety of forums of bootique modders creations that sound no better than my Rode K2 through a very good Great River pre, using some judicious eq??
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2014 15:24:13 GMT -6
Anyway, I think this is still THE BEST option as you can get for under $2500. (Miktek + Mod) I have a feeling it's going to be considered like the Steven Paul and Fred Cameron U87 Mods in the future. Highly prized. ...well that's one man's opinion...no disrespect implied... And that's fine. I've tried a TON of the other options and none of them have come close. So, I would say it's one man's "informed" opinion. I'm not trying to "trick" anyone...I could care less whether you pay Shannon for a mod or not. I'm sure there are other DIY guys out there doing fantastic work. I just don't know who they are. Shannon was involved intimately with Korby mics, Miktek and performs all the upkeep for the last several years on John McBride's collection at Blackbird - which should speak for itself. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2014 15:25:25 GMT -6
Wow, loving this new to me, forum. Great suggestions Here is my thing, I have read many recommendations that this mic or that mic sounds like a u47, but whem I have had the rare opportunity to hear samples, they disappoint. The Clipalator at Zen Pro Audio is interesting, but the male vocalist they use is completely without any kind of instrument you would want to put a 47 on. I think that's Warren himself... |
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Post by sceneofdarhyme on Jun 22, 2014 15:26:39 GMT -6
Well then just keep the Rode? btw: You can only protect yourself by trying some of the recommended mics in your room.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 22, 2014 15:33:57 GMT -6
Wow, loving this new to me, forum. Great suggestions Here is my thing, I have read many recommendations that this mic or that mic sounds like a u47, but whem I have had the rare opportunity to hear samples, they disappoint. The Clipalator at Zen Pro Audio is interesting, but the male vocalist they use is completely without any kind of instrument you would want to put a 47 on. (its excruciating) Warren has a pretty good collection of mics sampled, but none have the kind of low end that I am looking for. Closest is a vintage U87. Of course, there aren't a lot of boutique mics represented and certainly none of the folks that have been mentioned here who are modding stuff. I guess that's the thing, I dont mind spending $1500-$2000 on a mic that meets what I am looking for, even if I cant resell without a loss (as in a no name modded mic form a great guy working out of his house) but where's my protection that I am getting what I am expecting and what I am paying for? I've heard too many little clips on a variety of forums of bootique modders creations that sound no better than my Rode K2 through a very good Great River pre, using some judicious eq??you can make that rode K2 sound as good as it gets with a couple carefully placed mods, and you'll be at less than 1/2 of your max budget. |
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 22, 2014 15:40:14 GMT -6
...I can tell you from my experience with a tech like Brian Fox, who in my particular case was troubleshooting a prototype clone built by one of the most respected DIY techs, as well as making additional upgrades/modifications as per my request and considering his own recommendations...he also built a dedicated PSU for the mic...by the time we agreed that my M49 clone was ready to be shipped, I had multiple soundclips, a myriad of graphs documenting the frequency response (compared to Neumann's original response charts), both noise and distortion response for each stage of modification...his invoice lists the details of any components needed for modification (or build), and of course pics of the build including capsule... ...I've never seen this level of attention and technical documentation from any other microphone company or builder...if you're really serious, you could consider booking time in a studio that has a mic (or mics) that you feel do your needs justice, and record those vocals and send the soundfiles to Brian for reference...he then can recommend components to best achieve your sonic goal... ...the more reference information you are able to provide the builder, the better likelihood they will be able to provide you with a product you will be pleased with...I am sure this applies to other builders like Shannon and Jim Jacobson, etc...the more you know about what it is you're after in a microphone, the better the odds you will get what you're looking for...do your homework...and familiarize yourself with looking "under the hood"...so many of those who spend big bucks in the quest, never bother to look... |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2014 15:41:58 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 22, 2014 15:53:25 GMT -6
...I can tell you from my experience with a tech like Brian Fox, who in my particular case was troubleshooting a prototype clone built by one of the most respected DIY techs, as well as making additional upgrades/modifications as per my request and considering his own recommendations...he also built a dedicated PSU for the mic...by the time we agreed that my M49 clone was ready to be shipped, I had multiple soundclips, a myriad of graphs documenting the frequency response (compared to Neumann's original response charts), both noise and distortion response for each stage of modification...his invoice lists the details of any components needed for modification (or build), and of course pics of the build including capsule... ...I've never seen this level of attention and technical documentation from any other microphone company or builder...if you're really serious, you could consider booking time in a studio that has a mic (or mics) that you feel do your needs justice, and record those vocals and send the soundfiles to Brian for reference...he can choose components to best achieve your goal...the more reference information you are able to provide the builder, the better likelihood they will be able to provide you with a product you will be pleased with...I am sure this applies to other builders like Shannon and Jim Jacobson, etc...the more you know about what it is you're after in a microphone, the better the odds you will get what you're looking for...do your homework...and familiarize yourself with looking "under the hood"...so many of those who spend big bucks in the quest, never bother to look... funny, of the guys i'm aware of, these three you mentioned are the cream of the crop IMV, dandeurloo knows a reskin guy thats supposed to kick butt, but shann is crazy good at what he does, to think he's gotten the CV4 to sound as good as he did with capsule work ONLY, says a whole lot about his skill set, that said, if the electronics in that mike were to be addressed(electro caps gasp!...) by more capable hands than mine, i'd bet it could be better still, the only thing, is when does it stop being a CV4 all together? Johnkenn could you slide the mic housing off that thing and take a pic of the electronics side of the circuit and post it? |
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Post by ephi82 on Jun 22, 2014 16:07:52 GMT -6
Wow, loving this new to me, forum. Great suggestions Here is my thing, I have read many recommendations that this mic or that mic sounds like a u47, but whem I have had the rare opportunity to hear samples, they disappoint. The Clipalator at Zen Pro Audio is interesting, but the male vocalist they use is completely without any kind of instrument you would want to put a 47 on. I think that's Warren himself... Ooops, Uh Oh, No disrespect War, but you are not in the crooner/baritone mode that the 47 was made for! Dont hate me, I still love all your posts in all spaces and you seem to run a great business! |
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 22, 2014 16:09:02 GMT -6
And that's fine. I've tried a TON of the other options and none of them have come close. So, I would say it's one man's "informed" opinion. I'm not trying to "trick" anyone...I could care less whether you pay Shannon for a mod or not. I'm sure there are other DIY guys out there doing fantastic work. I just don't know who they are. Shannon was involved intimately with Korby mics, Miktek and performs all the upkeep for the last several years on John McBride's collection at Blackbird - which should speak for itself. Of course, I understand John...I have tremendous respect for Shannon and his work/reputation speak for themselves...it's just, things are changing so damned rapidly right now, with the advent of the GroupDIY projects, that the options under $2500 are exploding...for years no one even attempted to truly duplicate the legendary U67, no less the M49 (b and c versions) and M269 (b and c also)...now, very viable clones for those classics, as well as an ever-expanding selection of options, are becoming available for well within that pricepoint, including in the build equation the best available capsules, transformers, tubes, etc... ...I started with a basic Matachung C12 clone...within 6 months I have sold most of my mic collection including a couple of Beezneez, Rode Classic I, asst. Advanced Audio, Mojave, etc in order to finance a series of what were previously "unobtainium" mics for me...as you feel about your modded Miktek, I can't imagine where I could go from here, other than original classics for which I have no desire, due to their need for constant attention and maintenance... ...the whole microphone paradigm has shifted...and that's why you see guys like Oliver Archut, Ben Sneesby, Tim Campbell and brands like Flea accommodating the GroupDIY needs...it's currently still flying below the radar, but for how much longer?...truly a great time to be a home recordist!... |
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 22, 2014 16:16:02 GMT -6
Johnkenn could you slide the mic housing off that thing and take a pic of the electronics side of the circuit and post it? ...the CV4 uses a simple plate-follower circuit coupling a pentode (EF800) tube to a 6.5:1 output transformer (Oliver's basic BV-8)... ...in stock form: Attachments:
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2014 16:25:45 GMT -6
...I can tell you from my experience with a tech like Brian Fox, who in my particular case was troubleshooting a prototype clone built by one of the most respected DIY techs, as well as making additional upgrades/modifications as per my request and considering his own recommendations...he also built a dedicated PSU for the mic...by the time we agreed that my M49 clone was ready to be shipped, I had multiple soundclips, a myriad of graphs documenting the frequency response (compared to Neumann's original response charts), both noise and distortion response for each stage of modification...his invoice lists the details of any components needed for modification (or build), and of course pics of the build including capsule... ...I've never seen this level of attention and technical documentation from any other microphone company or builder...if you're really serious, you could consider booking time in a studio that has a mic (or mics) that you feel do your needs justice, and record those vocals and send the soundfiles to Brian for reference...he can choose components to best achieve your goal...the more reference information you are able to provide the builder, the better likelihood they will be able to provide you with a product you will be pleased with...I am sure this applies to other builders like Shannon and Jim Jacobson, etc...the more you know about what it is you're after in a microphone, the better the odds you will get what you're looking for...do your homework...and familiarize yourself with looking "under the hood"...so many of those who spend big bucks in the quest, never bother to look... funny, of the guys i'm aware of, these three you mentioned are the cream of the crop IMV, dandeurloo knows a reskin guy thats supposed to kick butt, but shann is crazy good at what he does, to think he's gotten the CV4 to sound as good as he did with capsule work ONLY, says a whole lot about his skill set, that said, if the electronics in that mike were to be addressed(electro caps gasp!...) by more capable hands than mine, i'd bet it could be better still, the only thing, is when does it stop being a CV4 all together? Johnkenn could you slide the mic housing off that thing and take a pic of the electronics side of the circuit and post it? I see Kidy did already - still want me to take any pics? Also, I'd be game for replacing some caps...just have no idea what to do. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2014 16:26:28 GMT -6
I think that's Warren himself... Ooops, Uh Oh, No disrespect War, but you are not in the crooner/baritone mode that the 47 was made for! Dont hate me, I still love all your posts in all spaces and you seem to run a great business! He won't post here for fear of Gearslut reprisal...so screw it... |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 22, 2014 16:38:02 GMT -6
I see Kidy did already - still want me to take any pics? Also, I'd be game for replacing some caps...just have no idea what to do. I'd like to see a clear pic of whats going on above the tube socket pcb, and below the capsule deck? if you can shoot a clear pic of whats going on there, it'd be great. anyone have a schematic for this mic? |
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Post by Shannon on Jun 22, 2014 16:40:19 GMT -6
Hey guys sup, if you guys have any questions shoot me a email. Shannon@micrehab.com. Wish I had a lil more time to jump in but the family is coming in and let's just say it's not even close to ready. God forbid they try to come in the lab ! . Thanks for all with kind words. I'll try to check back in later
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Post by wiz on Jun 22, 2014 16:58:53 GMT -6
I'm really interested in this too. I'm looking for a vocal mic and $2k give or take would be my budget. The Pearlman TM-47 is a contender. I'm waiting to hear solid clips of how it compares to the TM-1 since I owned that mic and had thoughts about it. Cowboy, when you get around to it I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on the modded CV4. I'm wondering how it stacks up to your U67. Here's a quick mock up of a tune I started writing a few days ago using the new mod on the CV4. The vocal is with the CV4 and the acoustic recorded in stereo beside the U 67. It sure sounds like a big league mic to me. What are your thoughts? db.tt/HqincZ9DCowboy..... ....... that bud.... is jaw droopingly good. Great song and heartfelt performance. That mic sounds really great on your voice, but I more came in to comment that I loved the whole thing cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on Jun 22, 2014 17:04:02 GMT -6
I tried a CV4 here, that the distributor in Oz was really nice and let me have it here to demo for a week.
At the time, I thought it was OK. But still had the "zing" that I didn't like (btw I don't hear one bit of that in Cowboys vocal take he posted, none)
I have owned a few Beesneez mics, T1 with K7 and then M7 capsules, Arabella with K7 capsule.. I have sung through 1 U47 and 1 251. I now own a old P48 U87.
The U87 is just the mic for me. I struggled with each of the others...on my voice, on people I have come through the studio some of them worked well with each of the mics.
But I found my mic in my U87.
MJB hit the nail on the head, that sometimes they can sound awesome on their own.. big .. full.. round... (the T1 was like that) but as soon as you get the vocal into a mix, you are carving the daylights out of the EQ.
I don't think I will ever bother sinking money into chasing a "U47" sound again. My experience was it was expensive, and rather pointless.
I would love to try the CV4 that shannon has modded, but thats never gonna happen this side of the pond.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 22, 2014 17:20:44 GMT -6
couple of +1's here; for Brain Fox, Group diy c12, Tim Campbell, of course, max and his 47 (wow!)
if there was ever a time to invest in a good iron and to learn to solder now is it, cat5 encouraged me and cautioned me not to start with teh c12 clone but I didi anyway; only made one mistake but I sent it to Brian Fox for QC andto install the campbell cap. Brain confirmed that the cap and mike was so good that my mike was spot on akg original specs and then I upgraded tubes from Christian and from Cat5 got me a military grade NOs 6702 Ge 1954 tube; sweet !
I'd encourage people to try one of the diy mike build projects !
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2014 19:12:19 GMT -6
I see Kidy did already - still want me to take any pics? Also, I'd be game for replacing some caps...just have no idea what to do. I'd like to see a clear pic of whats going on above the tube socket pcb, and below the capsule deck? if you can shoot a clear pic of whats going on there, it'd be great. anyone have a schematic for this mic? Cool Will do...Gear porn. |
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