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Post by viciousbliss on May 24, 2022 13:13:28 GMT -6
So, after years of experimenting with plug-ins, I finally have a budget to get minimally into hardware.
In my research, I wanted to find something that would give me the most bang for the buck in mastering that I could actually try first.
Black Box, Silver Bullet, and Fusion were at the top of my list.
Ended up paying for a half hour of Fusion to try and master some stuff. Though all three sounded awesome in the preview.
Very impressive. Just crushed the chains of plug-ins I was using.
I could mix and master stuff that translated well on my boombox and car stereo thanks to VSX, but it still sounded a bit thin.
I've also been trying the free devices they have. Daking comp and LH95.
Biggest differences is that hardware doesn't seem to do anything weird to the audio.
Stereo imaging and smoothness are much, much better. The Fusion stereo width stuff actually works, unlike the Brainworx MS stuff that I always thought sounded off.
When compressing with the hardware pieces, the music still sounds natural. Maybe more urgent. With plug-ins, it often sounds like it hit a wall or ended up in the Star Wars
trash compactor.
The instruments and vocals are much more distinct from each other. Hardware makes the vocals sit on top of the mix better.
Adding eq from these devices enhances things and doesn't call attention to itself or create weird artifacts. It blends with the source quite well.
I'd pretty much stopped using most plug-in eq in my mixes. Just a tad of Oxford Eq.
Mostly I was using Satin with the Studer GP9 preset followed by Dopamine on individual tracks.
Then maybe the Lindell 902 and Molot GE in insane mode on vocals.
Sometimes the PA Lindell console on busses. All this Lindell stuff at 16x oversampling.
I have not tried hardware vs an 88/96 session as I stopped using those rates after reading Dan's comments about IMD.
Once I acquire a Fusion, I'll have to try it during mixes too. I'll be trying the M7 from AA against Seventh Heaven Pro too. I'm hoping the fx plug-ins hold up better
against a hardware M7 than the dynamics and eq stuff does against their counterparts.
When I tried to recreate the Fusion hardware quality using Celestial or SSL Vintage Drive and Stereo Imager, it was like comparing a thin-sounding clone to a real U87.
Reminded me of comparisons of the Slate virtual mics with the real ones.
That's the best comparison I can make with plugins vs this hardware I've tried. The plugins may have 8 or 9 of the 10 things that the hardware does, but the
stuff that's missing is pretty crucial.
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Post by drbill on May 24, 2022 15:21:53 GMT -6
You may want to check out the mk2 version of the Silver Bullet before you pull the trigger. Much improved with many new features. EQ, third SSL mojo amp, and Aspect Ratio which is the ultimate height, depth stereo widener for me. Good luck!
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Post by tkaitkai on May 24, 2022 16:29:44 GMT -6
Yep, I absolutely love Access Analog (along with all of my own hardware) for all of the reasons mentioned.
It’s pretty eye-opening when you start using hardware all over a mix and realize how effortlessly things come together. In most cases, it just sounds right. No fuss, no artifacty weirdness, no nasty digital crud. Of course, there are a lot of truly excellent plugins these days, but the best analog gear usually seems to have that je ne sais quois that makes it that much better.
Not always the case, of course. I’ve used my fair share of crappy analog. And I can absolutely craft a great mix with plugins. If money were no issue, you bet I’d buy 64 channels of AD/DA plus analog summing and have racks upon racks of gear ready to go. But I’ll probably always be mixing mostly ITB, and I’m cool with it.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2022 17:24:06 GMT -6
Yep, I absolutely love Access Analog (along with all of my own hardware) for all of the reasons mentioned. It’s pretty eye-opening when you start using hardware all over a mix and realize how effortlessly things come together. In most cases, it just sounds right. No fuss, no artifacty weirdness, no nasty digital crud. Of course, there are a lot of truly excellent plugins these days, but the best analog gear usually seems to have that je ne sais quois that makes it that much better. Not always the case, of course. I’ve used my fair share of crappy analog. And I can absolutely craft a great mix with plugins. If money were no issue, you bet I’d buy 64 channels of AD/DA plus analog summing and have racks upon racks of gear ready to go. But I’ll probably always be mixing mostly ITB, and I’m cool with it. HW generally either works or it doesn't / shows obvious signs, with ITB there can be lots of potential issues. I was roaming the other site recently and the amount of delay comp issues (in one way or another), bugs, plug reporting issues, DAW issues, interface zero latency console issues etc. Yeesh! In Logic they've only very recently fixed issues with side chain delay comp. I was having these comb filtering induced scenario's caused by DAW's / plugs back in the Pro Tools 7/8/9 native days, sure a lot of DAW's don't have these issues today but one still has to be careful. Plus there's a smorgasbord of quality out there and sometimes it's pretty easy to be fooled. I mean even the best engineers have tweaked an EQ that has been in bypass. On the other hand I've had quite a bit of success with tracking HW, Tokyo Dawn, Izotope and UA plugs. Especially the newer stuff, I was using UAD-1 back in 2007? We've come a fair way, for example with my BM in M/S plus Gainlab it's really easy to widen a track without any stereo field breaking methods and that was something I struggled with ITB. Enter Chandler Curve Bender UAD style, awesome plugin and problem solved. Ultimately I just think HW is easier to deal with and it's one of the reasons I wanted to run with a desk. Not for its superior audio quality, it just hands you less pitfalls. I've delved into a lot of none emulated HW from the likes of Bettermaker, Chandler, Gainlabs etc. and I'm enjoying it. The cost of putting all this together though is absolutely eye watering and as you said some HW does not necessarily guarantee an improvement over a plug, in some cases it can be even worse. I've got a fair amount of HW on loan currently (bought quite a bit as well) but when it comes time to clear the invoice I can still see a UA Octo sneaking its way in somewhere..
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Post by viciousbliss on May 24, 2022 18:15:48 GMT -6
Dr. Bill, I found someone local to me who will sell me a mint Fusion for $1900. I have to keep my budget as low as possible.
If $695 for a Zulu Tape would do the trick, I'd get that, but I have no way of testing it.
But I did read your posts about the Silver Bullet on GS.
If I did a lot of tracking, I think it'd be about the best thing I could buy. And you were right, there are not a lot of them for sale used.
I've got an Apollo twin and most of the Unison preamps. Right now I'm just recording vocals on it, so my need to track is pretty small.
Silver Bullet MK2 will be at the top of my list when I do get into tracking.
One thing for me that's held true even listening to hardware examples is that I still don't like the sound of the Distressor when it's using a lot of compression.
Saw that in one of the Youtube videos where someone had the one from AA going. When I use the UAD version, I am very conservative.
Using Fusion was almost effortless. Chaining stuff like Satin, Magenta, Black Box, Unisum, DS-1, FireTheClip, PA VSC-2, and PA Shadow Hills Class A just doesn't compare.
It can take a lot of effort to make plug-ins achieve certain things, if you can get them to achieve them at all.
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Post by OtisGreying on May 24, 2022 19:58:18 GMT -6
The stuff that’s missing is hugely crucial
Presence without harshness Bottom end without mud Taming dynamics while retaining natural sound
These were all the things missing from my ITB mixes that hardware cured and I’m so glad I dive headfirst into HW when I did. Primarily cause I’m an artist also and it’s just impossible to have a session where you’re creating the music AND having it mixed and not CPU overloading ITB.
I often shout this loud on the forum cause I was totally confused what the hell I was doing wrong and it really does come down to good gear, good recordings and not messing it up. Not less than stellar gear, less than stellar recording and figuring out some complex riddle. At least for the sound I’m always searching for in my head that seems true.
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Post by drbill on May 24, 2022 21:23:22 GMT -6
Silver Bullet MK2 will be at the top of my list when I do get into tracking. Haha! I rarely use mine for tracking - but a TON for mixing which is where most of my work is happening these days. LOL It's a super sweet unit that by far (IMO) eclipses the mk1 versions - which I still love and use daily as well. But they get pulled up second string now....
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Post by viciousbliss on May 24, 2022 22:26:36 GMT -6
The stuff that’s missing is hugely crucial Presence without harshness Bottom end without mud Taming dynamics while retaining natural sound These were all the things missing from my ITB mixes that hardware cured and I’m so glad I dive headfirst into HW when I did. Primarily cause I’m an artist also and it’s just impossible to have a session where you’re creating the music AND having it mixed and not CPU overloading ITB. I often shout this loud on the forum cause I was totally confused what the hell I was doing wrong and it really does come down to good gear, good recordings and not messing it up. Not less than stellar gear, less than stellar recording and figuring out some complex riddle. At least for the sound I’m always searching for in my head that seems true. That about sums it up. I took the rock band oggs for Ride the Lightning and recorded some vocals over it with an SM7 some years back, either through my ID14 or Zoom R16. Even with those cruddy source files, Fusion really put the finishing touches on it so it is neck-in-neck with the album version from one of the first pressing cds. The mix didn't sound like it had glaring issues, probably because I kept the plugins to a minimum. I've kept trying to equal the quick Fusion master tests I did with plugins and Celestial is probably what gets me closest. But it definitely sounds like a Slate Virtual mic vs the real deal. Or the Warm 87 vs a U87. When I start to add most plugins to master the mix, there seems to be some degradation going on. The harsh cymbals get pushed to the background and smoothed out with Fusion, and to a lesser extent Celestial. The vocals cut through more as a result. Bass retention and extension is also much better with Fusion. I don't think Celestial is 90% of Fusion. Maybe 65-70% with some critical things missing. I don't think 2k is a lot for a hardware piece that can do a lot. I'll probably cease buying more plugins unless something revolutionary comes out. Maybe even start selling some and get Zulu Tape and Silver Bullet. It's possible to mix all ITB, but I think that maybe only the best people could make an all-ITB production sound good. And by that I mean not using any samples recorded with hardware.
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Post by viciousbliss on May 24, 2022 22:29:00 GMT -6
Silver Bullet MK2 will be at the top of my list when I do get into tracking. Haha! I rarely use mine for tracking - but a TON for mixing which is where most of my work is happening these days. LOL It's a super sweet unit that by far (IMO) eclipses the mk1 versions - which I still love and use daily as well. But they get pulled up second string now.... The info you gave on GS about how versatile it was made it sound really impressive. At this point in time, I'm only going with Fusion since I have no way to test the Silver Bullet MK2 and because of my limited budget. The one at AA looks like the original. The MK2 does sound really impressive.
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Post by OtisGreying on May 24, 2022 22:50:17 GMT -6
The stuff that’s missing is hugely crucial Presence without harshness Bottom end without mud Taming dynamics while retaining natural sound These were all the things missing from my ITB mixes that hardware cured and I’m so glad I dive headfirst into HW when I did. Primarily cause I’m an artist also and it’s just impossible to have a session where you’re creating the music AND having it mixed and not CPU overloading ITB. I often shout this loud on the forum cause I was totally confused what the hell I was doing wrong and it really does come down to good gear, good recordings and not messing it up. Not less than stellar gear, less than stellar recording and figuring out some complex riddle. At least for the sound I’m always searching for in my head that seems true. That about sums it up. I took the rock band oggs for Ride the Lightning and recorded some vocals over it with an SM7 some years back, either through my ID14 or Zoom R16. Even with those cruddy source files, Fusion really put the finishing touches on it so it is neck-in-neck with the album version from one of the first pressing cds. The mix didn't sound like it had glaring issues, probably because I kept the plugins to a minimum. I've kept trying to equal the quick Fusion master tests I did with plugins and Celestial is probably what gets me closest. But it definitely sounds like a Slate Virtual mic vs the real deal. Or the Warm 87 vs a U87. When I start to add most plugins to master the mix, there seems to be some degradation going on. The harsh cymbals get pushed to the background and smoothed out with Fusion, and to a lesser extent Celestial. The vocals cut through more as a result. Bass retention and extension is also much better with Fusion. I don't think Celestial is 90% of Fusion. Maybe 65-70% with some critical things missing. I don't think 2k is a lot for a hardware piece that can do a lot. I'll probably cease buying more plugins unless something revolutionary comes out. Maybe even start selling some and get Zulu Tape and Silver Bullet. It's possible to mix all ITB, but I think that maybe only the best people could make an all-ITB production sound good. And by that I mean not using any samples recorded with hardware. I personally only buy plug-ins that are focused on being digital tools now. No more emulations. A huge reason for that is what you touched on which is asking yourself how "close" your getting. It's such a distracting hole to go down. It's hard to avoid cause having a real 2,000$ hardware sound for 50$ is such a huge no brainer but... as you've experienced its not quite that simple.
Tokyo Dawn and Leapwing Dynone 3 were my last plug-in purchases. Both super useful. Both focused on being digital tools. But the slow build-up of hardware has really helped hugely in my mixes getting to the finish line - great sound of the highest level and it doesn't make my sessions become un-workable and slow from CPU bottlenecks. And if you buy used market in good condition you often are hardly losing any money as good hardware retains its value. Silver bullet was my first piece of real mixing gear and its terrific, I bought it used and in great shape and can sell it today for what I paid.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2022 7:54:29 GMT -6
The stuff that’s missing is hugely crucial Presence without harshness Bottom end without mud Taming dynamics while retaining natural sound These were all the things missing from my ITB mixes that hardware cured and I’m so glad I dive headfirst into HW when I did. Primarily cause I’m an artist also and it’s just impossible to have a session where you’re creating the music AND having it mixed and not CPU overloading ITB. I often shout this loud on the forum cause I was totally confused what the hell I was doing wrong and it really does come down to good gear, good recordings and not messing it up. Not less than stellar gear, less than stellar recording and figuring out some complex riddle. At least for the sound I’m always searching for in my head that seems true. It's just not that binary though.. I honestly must have gone through most things out there by now (sad as that is), desks? SSL 4K, Toft ATB, A&H Zed-R16, Mackie Onyx 1640i, Soundcraft MTK (just curious).. HW? Manley, Tele, UA, SH, FMR, ART, Chandler, SSL, API, DBX etc. etc. I've had two Kempers, one AXE FX, about 10 amps at one point and a shed load of instruments.. I've owned most of Neumann's back catalogue, Gefell's, blah blah.. I think you're getting the picture by now. My first ever "real" recording session was on an AWS w/ HDX (college), I freelanced on API and Tridents. At this point I've seen it from all angles and you know what? There's no magic sauce, just a lot of crap, mediocre and good equipment out there. My worst setup of all time was a Pro Tools LE box with cheap plugs, IMO it just ruined everything that went through it. One of the best was two Shelford's / 2A's / 1176's through an MOTU with UA / TDL and Izo plugs. For me there's no and / or, you just find what works the best at all levels, from guitar picks to monitors all the way over to FX. I wish it was as simple as buying an all in one console and being done with it but it's not. ITB can do some things analog can't and vice versa, a setup does not have to be expensive it just has to be good. Also it's not a revelation to me that a bit of good HW helps because we are so lucky today, you can take the strength's of both mediums and make the best out of it. From there on it's all talent yeahh..
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Post by viciousbliss on May 25, 2022 10:40:59 GMT -6
I'm sure there is a lot of bad analog out there. Maybe I'll never have a chance to hear it. At the moment, I'm just amazed at what one properly designed piece of hardware is capable of vs top-rated plug-ins like Satin, Unisum, DS-1, Magenta, Black Box MS, and Shadow Hills Class A.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2022 11:29:44 GMT -6
I'm sure there is a lot of bad analog out there. Maybe I'll never have a chance to hear it. At the moment, I'm just amazed at what one properly designed piece of hardware is capable of vs top-rated plug-ins like Satin, Unisum, DS-1, Magenta, Black Box MS, and Shadow Hills Class A. Yup, good hardware is good.. Not sure what else you can say about it .
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2022 12:01:22 GMT -6
Yep, I absolutely love Access Analog (along with all of my own hardware) for all of the reasons mentioned. It’s pretty eye-opening when you start using hardware all over a mix and realize how effortlessly things come together. In most cases, it just sounds right. No fuss, no artifacty weirdness, no nasty digital crud. Of course, there are a lot of truly excellent plugins these days, but the best analog gear usually seems to have that je ne sais quois that makes it that much better. Not always the case, of course. I’ve used my fair share of crappy analog. And I can absolutely craft a great mix with plugins. If money were no issue, you bet I’d buy 64 channels of AD/DA plus analog summing and have racks upon racks of gear ready to go. But I’ll probably always be mixing mostly ITB, and I’m cool with it. HW generally either works or it doesn't / shows obvious signs, with ITB there can be lots of potential issues. I was roaming the other site recently and the amount of delay comp issues (in one way or another), bugs, plug reporting issues, DAW issues, interface zero latency console issues etc. Yeesh! In Logic they've only very recently fixed issues with side chain delay comp. I was having these comb filtering induced scenario's caused by DAW's / plugs back in the Pro Tools 7/8/9 native days, sure a lot of DAW's don't have these issues today but one still has to be careful. Plus there's a smorgasbord of quality out there and sometimes it's pretty easy to be fooled. I mean even the best engineers have tweaked an EQ that has been in bypass. On the other hand I've had quite a bit of success with tracking HW, Tokyo Dawn, Izotope and UA plugs. Especially the newer stuff, I was using UAD-1 back in 2007? We've come a fair way, for example with my BM in M/S plus Gainlab it's really easy to widen a track without any stereo field breaking methods and that was something I struggled with ITB. Enter Chandler Curve Bender UAD style, awesome plugin and problem solved. Ultimately I just think HW is easier to deal with and it's one of the reasons I wanted to run with a desk. Not for its superior audio quality, it just hands you less pitfalls. I've delved into a lot of none emulated HW from the likes of Bettermaker, Chandler, Gainlabs etc. and I'm enjoying it. The cost of putting all this together though is absolutely eye watering and as you said some HW does not necessarily guarantee an improvement over a plug, in some cases it can be even worse. I've got a fair amount of HW on loan currently (bought quite a bit as well) but when it comes time to clear the invoice I can still see a UA Octo sneaking its way in somewhere.. The problem with hardware is most new hardware is an ersatz for something from decades ago like emulations, most of the workhorse stuff is discontinued (the 60s-70s classics, dbx, ssl, Aphex, bss, old Klark technics), and most new design hardware is just designed to sound cool rather than be functional and solve a problem. And often the “cool” sounds like plastic or forward metallic grinding crap even from huge names. And then most plugins are crap. There are companies with dozens of plugs and only a couple of good ones. Not everyone is Sonnox, Sound Radix, or Tokyo Dawn. Now some plugins have caught up with hardware but the amount of technically good ones or ones programmed in a way that makes them usable in a session is very slim. Lots of the “technically good ones” are boring as hell static wave shapers that sound worse than old Waves and Oxford fx (better waveshapers lol) where yeah they’re aliased but sound cool. Even recent plugs are. It’s jokey. Then you hear the moaning about the cost of Softube and U-he plugs from guys who buy Warm gear.
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Post by OtisGreying on May 25, 2022 16:53:05 GMT -6
The stuff that’s missing is hugely crucial Presence without harshness Bottom end without mud Taming dynamics while retaining natural sound These were all the things missing from my ITB mixes that hardware cured and I’m so glad I dive headfirst into HW when I did. Primarily cause I’m an artist also and it’s just impossible to have a session where you’re creating the music AND having it mixed and not CPU overloading ITB. I often shout this loud on the forum cause I was totally confused what the hell I was doing wrong and it really does come down to good gear, good recordings and not messing it up. Not less than stellar gear, less than stellar recording and figuring out some complex riddle. At least for the sound I’m always searching for in my head that seems true. It's just not that binary though.. I honestly must have gone through most things out there by now (sad as that is), desks? SSL 4K, Toft ATB, A&H Zed-R16, Mackie Onyx 1640i, Soundcraft MTK (just curious).. HW? Manley, Tele, UA, SH, FMR, ART, Chandler, SSL, API, DBX etc. etc. I've had two Kempers, one AXE FX, about 10 amps at one point and a shed load of instruments.. I've owned most of Neumann's back catalogue, Gefell's, blah blah.. I think you're getting the picture by now. My first ever "real" recording session was on an AWS w/ HDX (college), I freelanced on API and Tridents. At this point I've seen it from all angles and you know what? There's no magic sauce, just a lot of crap, mediocre and good equipment out there. My worst setup of all time was a Pro Tools LE box with cheap plugs, IMO it just ruined everything that went through it. One of the best was two Shelford's / 2A's / 1176's through an MOTU with UA / TDL and Izo plugs. For me there's no and / or, you just find what works the best at all levels, from guitar picks to monitors all the way over to FX. I wish it was as simple as buying an all in one console and being done with it but it's not. ITB can do some things analog can't and vice versa, a setup does not have to be expensive it just has to be good. Also it's not a revelation to me that a bit of good HW helps because we are so lucky today, you can take the strength's of both mediums and make the best out of it. From there on it's all talent yeahh.. Definitely shadow, I probably should have said “good” hardware rather than just hardware. I definitely am not referring to any piece of hardware guitar center will sell you. I haven’t bought any prosumer hardware for the same reason as I currently don’t buy plug-in emulations - I really like to buy once and be happy with the result. And that’s what these forums are for so if you do your research you’ll find which pieces fall under that category that are really helpful
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2022 20:54:47 GMT -6
It's just not that binary though.. I honestly must have gone through most things out there by now (sad as that is), desks? SSL 4K, Toft ATB, A&H Zed-R16, Mackie Onyx 1640i, Soundcraft MTK (just curious).. HW? Manley, Tele, UA, SH, FMR, ART, Chandler, SSL, API, DBX etc. etc. I've had two Kempers, one AXE FX, about 10 amps at one point and a shed load of instruments.. I've owned most of Neumann's back catalogue, Gefell's, blah blah.. I think you're getting the picture by now. My first ever "real" recording session was on an AWS w/ HDX (college), I freelanced on API and Tridents. At this point I've seen it from all angles and you know what? There's no magic sauce, just a lot of crap, mediocre and good equipment out there. My worst setup of all time was a Pro Tools LE box with cheap plugs, IMO it just ruined everything that went through it. One of the best was two Shelford's / 2A's / 1176's through an MOTU with UA / TDL and Izo plugs. For me there's no and / or, you just find what works the best at all levels, from guitar picks to monitors all the way over to FX. I wish it was as simple as buying an all in one console and being done with it but it's not. ITB can do some things analog can't and vice versa, a setup does not have to be expensive it just has to be good. Also it's not a revelation to me that a bit of good HW helps because we are so lucky today, you can take the strength's of both mediums and make the best out of it. From there on it's all talent yeahh.. Definitely shadow, I probably should have said “good” hardware rather than just hardware. I definitely am not referring to any piece of hardware guitar center will sell you. I haven’t bought any prosumer hardware for the same reason as I currently don’t buy plug-in emulations - I really like to buy once and be happy with the result. And that’s what these forums are for so if you do your research you’ll find which pieces fall under that category that are really helpful What is prosumer hardware now? Lots of things that cost thousands of dollars are mainly toys for the prosumer market while Art and Audio Technica make some very good stuff mostly used by pros because they are boring but highly effective or made to a price point based on OEM parts commonly available but with designs intended for modification.
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Post by jaba on May 26, 2022 8:10:46 GMT -6
Y'know what, screw it I'm just gonna spout.. Dan gets to do it! I despise digital (for the most part), recording to the medium is fine but apart from it being a handy tape deck the rest of it can burn on a pyre. You can't give plugins a hug, you can't even warm your face in winter.. Radiators just get too hot so don't start. Serban? Who? Couldn't care less.. In my dream castle in the clouds I'd have an RND mixing console mashed up like a cheesecake with 40 pieces of high end goodness. Shame I can't afford any of that, I've tried to make that SSL Big Six work in numerous ways because I prefer that QA haunted, extremely limited piece of infuriation over any plugin suite. Yes you can buy old but have you every tried to get some pots for a Toft (which last like 5 seconds anyway)? Same issue as Rad Distribution with the 002's, if you get something new than at least there's some guarantee of parts a decade down the line, if it's cheap sweet, bin it.. Also heat, electricity, space.. By Zeus's under beard those old consoles were inefficient goliath's.. A big rack just for PSU's? No thanks. So all of these previous posts has really comes down to budget and how lazy I'm feeling, with a desk I get to twist things and gawk at its shiny latency free construction. Or I could buy lots of outboard and pull lemon faces at the DAW whilst having a sigh of relief when looking up on occasion. It really just depends how many compressors I think I need and again how lazy I wanna be, I/O plug is so much simpler. Expecting some blowback in 3, 2, 1.. I use and like both. Digital is tons more practical, cheaper, and can do some really great stuff you can't in the world of knobs, but I just get better sounds with hardware. I mostly track with hardware and mix ITB these days and I'm lucky that the hardware is generally old classic stuff (3As, 1176s, 2254, API, Pultec). It just does its thing in a way I know and love. But honestly, I think a big part of what I like about working on a console with hardware is that I'm not looking at a screen. My mind get easily distracted and there's just something about grabbing a few faders or knobs and fine tuning something, making it work. I have my computer screen off to the side so when I'm facing the speakers I don't really see it which helps but it's not as fast and that's where I start to lose perspective. Two hands on physical gear really helps with that.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2022 8:29:37 GMT -6
As Jaba quoted me and I deleted the post: It needed more explanation, I get the practicalities, cost benefits etc. but still..
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2022 10:56:20 GMT -6
As Jaba quoted me and I deleted the post: It needed more explanation, I get the practicalities, cost benefits etc. but still.. Of course you're right dude. The amount of plugins that are good is scarcely better than it was in 2010, when there were about 5-6 digital compressors that compressed and didn't junk up the high end and low mids and half of them were hardware. Now we have stuff that's basically a marketing scheme with static waveshapers and dynamic convolutions atop static waveshapers (all have been exposed as junk if you care to look) and component models that still cannot run in a session on the highest quality, which they need to function, on an i9-12900k or M1 Ultra. All of this old or cheap stuff or flavor of the month? Most of it is a maintenance nightmare. They're not Yamaha or Avedis. And that RND stuff is pro as hell even if selectable transformers and silk is just a marketing thing that can break to get it to move. and the cost cutting has hit API and SSL. There's little money in this industry so everything needs to be tank and efficient. Streaming took out another bite that piracy, corporate radio, and 360 deals did.
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Post by christopher on May 26, 2022 11:03:45 GMT -6
I’m really glad these services exist. It can be hard for me to break habit of ALWAYS using my same go to plugins. Even after I bounce through analog, I find myself trying to “improve” it more. And almost every single time I’m less happy than if I had left it alone. There’s something intimate about working with limitations that can be ok.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2022 13:48:59 GMT -6
As Jaba quoted me and I deleted the post: It needed more explanation, I get the practicalities, cost benefits etc. but still.. Of course you're right dude. The amount of plugins that are good is scarcely better than it was in 2010, when there were about 5-6 digital compressors that compressed and didn't junk up the high end and low mids and half of them were hardware. Now we have stuff that's basically a marketing scheme with static waveshapers and dynamic convolutions atop static waveshapers (all have been exposed as junk if you care to look) and component models that still cannot run in a session on the highest quality, which they need to function, on an i9-12900k or M1 Ultra. All of this old or cheap stuff or flavor of the month? Most of it is a maintenance nightmare. They're not Yamaha or Avedis. And that RND stuff is pro as hell even if selectable transformers and silk is just a marketing thing that can break to get it to move. and the cost cutting has hit API and SSL. There's little money in this industry so everything needs to be tank and efficient. Streaming took out another bite that piracy, corporate radio, and 360 deals did. I might just take up golf, bowling anyone? Up for some croquet?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2022 14:14:56 GMT -6
Of course you're right dude. The amount of plugins that are good is scarcely better than it was in 2010, when there were about 5-6 digital compressors that compressed and didn't junk up the high end and low mids and half of them were hardware. Now we have stuff that's basically a marketing scheme with static waveshapers and dynamic convolutions atop static waveshapers (all have been exposed as junk if you care to look) and component models that still cannot run in a session on the highest quality, which they need to function, on an i9-12900k or M1 Ultra. All of this old or cheap stuff or flavor of the month? Most of it is a maintenance nightmare. They're not Yamaha or Avedis. And that RND stuff is pro as hell even if selectable transformers and silk is just a marketing thing that can break to get it to move. and the cost cutting has hit API and SSL. There's little money in this industry so everything needs to be tank and efficient. Streaming took out another bite that piracy, corporate radio, and 360 deals did. I might just take up golf, bowling anyone? Up for some croquet? Once you've been replaced by Izotope Nectar, a Line 6, and uneqed drum sample packs, it's time for musical terrorism.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on May 26, 2022 22:27:16 GMT -6
I personally only buy plug-ins that are focused on being digital tools now. No more emulations. Such a great point. Completely how I've been approaching plugins for a while now.
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Post by viciousbliss on May 30, 2022 11:11:21 GMT -6
Well I picked up the Fusion from a guy who had just about every studio staple. Racks and racks of gear. The top Neumann mics. Fusion just wasn't a necessity to have and he was trying to lighten the amount of stuff for his move to LA. Operating a real Fusion is definitely different than using it with AA. Lots more freedom to turn knobs, so I can work faster than using the AA plugin. The recall is kinda a pain. Now I'm making notes of settings, taking pictures, etc. The transformer on this thing adds a lot. Makes the music more urgent and dynamic. The listen mic comp can definitely work on mixes that need compression. The only plugins I've found necessary to add at times are the DS-1 and Unisum. Satin with the 102 setting just seems to make as many things worse as it makes better.
I'll probably try mixing with it and see what happens. I think it adds enough of what plugins seem to lack, so I can largely mix ITB, but I'm definitely curious what else this thing can pull off.
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Post by viciousbliss on May 31, 2022 11:48:50 GMT -6
Having some problems routing this with the Apollo Twin. Whenever I add the hardware insert into a track in a mix, all I can hear is the track being processed by the Fusion.
So, I deactivated my Black Box MS instances thinking I'd replace them with Fusion. Then it occurred to me that I could mix with much less saturation and just use the Fusion for that in mastering.
It's hard to make a good mix sound bad with this thing, even if I get carried away with the drive and clip the peaks on accident.
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