Anybody here ever take a songwriting course?

I'm BMI now, but started with ASCAP...ASCAP has songwriter workshops every year...Usually with a guy that has had a bunch of success. I went to one of those before I got a deal. But, you know, it's kind of hard to teach something like that. The best thing I got out of it was the critiques - and you have to try and take good criticism, but still remain yourself. I think you can definitely learn from what's out there. Take your favorite songs and copy the structure, e.g. intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-outro...There are tons of different song structures - or rondeau's - Intro-verse-push to chorus-half verse-chorus-solo-breakdown-chorus...etc. I think the biggest mistake new writers make is the lack of structure - rambling verses, too slow to the chorus, etc. Also - avoiding cliche is so important. Try and say the something familiar to someone, but say it in a way or turn of phrase that is new and fresh. Of course, pictures are great...but I think that has gone overboard a little...all you hear on Country radio are pictures - "dirt road, six pack, hank jr, party, truck, jacked up truck," etc. I love to hear the TRUTH in a song. Something that makes you go, "holy shit - ain't that the truth..."

I was actually looking into this one. I might go for it.

agreed, or if your lazy, just write bro country songs, any asshole can do that 8)

Well said.

On the same topic, I got a chance recently to speak briefly with Gary Burr regarding "the rules." He said, "I learned them, now I know when to break them."

I didn't mention it to him, but what he said reminded me of a quote by Nadia Boulanger, who was one of, if not the most, celebrated music teachers in history, having taught musical giants like Philip Glass, Burt Bacharach, Quincy Jones, and Aaron Copland. She said,


"To study music, we must learn the rules. To create music, we must forget them."

I don't think writing a song is much different than writing a creative story. I've never taken a songwriting coarse but did have creative writing in college. Loved that class. Had a good prof too. Jk keeps saying it above and it echoes the same thing I was taught in writing class: get to the point. Cut out every word that is unnessecary. That's sometimes harder to do in songwriting than in creative writing because of the rhyme scheme. But the idea is still the same.

My prof was big on this: don't pester the reader. Always be thinking of the reader as you write and get to the point. No one likes to stand and listen to long winded people talk and the same can be said for writers who break this rule.

I tried to read a novel a few months back and couldn't finish it for this reason. The writer took 10 pages to ramble on about something that could have been said in 1. He was trying to build suspense but instead, just pissed me off to the point I put the book down. This happens to bad songs too. People don't listen to the end on some because it rambles.

Another good writing tool I was taught was the fine art of eavesdropping. Everyone loves to eavesdrop on a good conversation. This can be a wonderful tool for songwriting as well. I gaurentee a song will be more interesting with the occasional I said, she said or he said. Think Hank and Wayland's "The Conversation". Impossible to turn off, doesn't matter if you like country or not I'll bet you'll listen to the end just to hear what is said.

Good thread.

Well, I struggle with both. But words are definitely a struggle to avoid cliche etc. 

I find when I'm out walking the dog sometimes the words seem to flow. Should figure out how to use my phone as a voice recorder - I'm pretty sure it must be able to do that. Anyhow, I think the fairly mindless nature of that task allows the mind to wander and for whatever reason I don't try to filter too much in the moment. 

For me, words and music don't usually come to me together if I'm sitting down with a guitar. I do sometimes hear complete(ish) ideas when I'm out walking though. Weird.

Cheers,
Geoff