|
Post by notneeson on Jul 27, 2022 8:27:44 GMT -6
Just did my first session tracking with SCM25As, I love how they sound but I’m not totally sure how they translate yet. This in a room where the big speakers were previously Adams that we all hated (in my crew anyway).
They certainly sound expensive…
|
|
|
Post by indrasnet on Jul 27, 2022 8:46:29 GMT -6
Unfortunately I've just been offered a pair of SCM50's for 9K.. I'd love to take them off their hands but I'm really not sure they would work in a 14.5 X 13 X 8.5 room, I'm not even sure I could physically get them to fit. Can they be mounted horizontally and placed on a desk? I'd probably end up with some nasty reflections no? Thoughts, opinions? 50s here ... They do mount horizontal, you just need to move the tweeter to the alt mounting hole. As you say there will be some reflection issues with 8.5 ft ceiling and desk but can work depending on room treatment. I have mine vertical against back wall, about 7ft apart, and built kind of pseudo soffits for them. The 50s are amazing and will work in a space that size but the placement and treatment must be dialed in. They're very picky. You also may need subs depending on your usage. Best to try in your space first. They also take room correction well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 9:00:08 GMT -6
50s here ... They do mount horizontal, you just need to move the tweeter to the alt mounting hole. As you say there will be some reflection issues with 8.5 ft ceiling and desk but can work depending on room treatment. I have mine vertical against back wall, about 7ft apart, and built kind of pseudo soffits for them. The 50s are amazing and will work in a space that size but the placement and treatment must be dialed in. They're very picky. You also may need subs depending on your usage. Best to try in your space first. They also take room correction well. Sweet, thanks. It's just the Core 59's have a DSP desk reflection switch which sorts that out.. The desk has racks and the monitors are placed upon the top of the shelf so they're not facing over the surface of the desk, my current monitors are 6ft apart..
My room is fully treated with a large amount of GIK traps and I had GIK plus an engineer design / ratify it, I'm also still in contact with GIK and I'll do some final tuning when I've selected my monitors. I have considered the SCM 45's as well, it would literally blow the rest of my budget but there's another option. It's not like I'd ever replace them, that's for sure..
Here's my desk but it has a bridge across the middle:
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Jul 27, 2022 9:32:52 GMT -6
Unfortunately I've just been offered a pair of SCM50's for 9K.. I'd love to take them off their hands but I'm really not sure they would work in a 14.5 X 13 X 8.5 room, I'm not even sure I could physically get them to fit. Can they be mounted horizontally and placed on a desk? I'd probably end up with some nasty reflections no? Thoughts, opinions? 50s here ... They do mount horizontal, you just need to move the tweeter to the alt mounting hole. As you say there will be some reflection issues with 8.5 ft ceiling and desk but can work depending on room treatment. I have mine vertical against back wall, about 7ft apart, and built kind of pseudo soffits for them. The 50s are amazing and will work in a space that size but the placement and treatment must be dialed in. They're very picky. You also may need subs depending on your usage. Best to try in your space first. They also take room correction well. I'd be curious to see what those pseudo soffits look like. I'm kicking around doing something similar myself.
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Jul 27, 2022 14:08:10 GMT -6
Unfortunately I've just been offered a pair of SCM50's for 9K.. I'd love to take them off their hands but I'm really not sure they would work in a 14.5 X 13 X 8.5 room, I'm not even sure I could physically get them to fit. Can they be mounted horizontally and placed on a desk? I'd probably end up with some nasty reflections no? Thoughts, opinions? My room is 14ft x 11ft x 8.5ft I have GIK designed full acoustic treatment in it. After great though and discussion and having the budget for 25's 45's or second hand 50's I went for the 25's. They are on huge expensive speakers stands behind my desk (essential in my opinion to avoid unwanted reflections) and towards the back wall to give me enough distance to create a 65" triangle of love audiophile sweet spot I have them as close to the back wall as the amps cooling will allow - this reduces greatly any room bass nulls and slightly loads (by design) the bass response resulting in the 25's in my room having easily enough full articulate bass. I concluded 45's where simply too big width wise - I would of been facing 4 feet of speaker in a room only 11 ft wide!! The 50's I was reliably told would require me to sit in the mid-field to get the best from them and my room simply isn't long enough as I was trying as best as possible to stick to the 38% rule, which in my experience works. The 25's are the right size for my room, no question in my mind and the translation of mixes is simply perfect. My conclusion was, much as I'd loved to have bought 45's or better still 50's - my room is too small.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 14:55:41 GMT -6
My room is 14ft x 11ft x 8.5ft I have GIK designed full acoustic treatment in it. I concluded 45's where simply too big width wise - I would of been facing 4 feet of speaker in a room only 11 ft wide!! The 50's I was reliably told would require me to sit in the mid-field to get the best from them and my room simply isn't long enough as I was trying as best as possible to stick to the 38% rule, which in my experience works. The 25's are the right size for my room, no question in my mind and the translation of mixes is simply perfect. My conclusion was, much as I'd loved to have bought 45's or better still 50's - my room is too small. Similar issues with the Core 59's hence the reason I'm keeping my options open, they're 3.6ft wide (per pair). Despite them being flat down to 42Hz I do prefer a mid 30's frequency response. They thump pretty hard when you go back a meter from the listing position but at 2.5M you're heading towards the back of the 4M room.. They work but only just.
I like the SCM 25's and they're comfortably within budget but they just do not have enough bass for me. I'm at a bit of a loss, if the HEDD Type 20's don't work out *shrugs dunno..
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Jul 27, 2022 15:38:05 GMT -6
My room is 14ft x 11ft x 8.5ft I have GIK designed full acoustic treatment in it. I concluded 45's where simply too big width wise - I would of been facing 4 feet of speaker in a room only 11 ft wide!! The 50's I was reliably told would require me to sit in the mid-field to get the best from them and my room simply isn't long enough as I was trying as best as possible to stick to the 38% rule, which in my experience works. The 25's are the right size for my room, no question in my mind and the translation of mixes is simply perfect. My conclusion was, much as I'd loved to have bought 45's or better still 50's - my room is too small. Similar issues with the Core 59's hence the reason I'm keeping my options open, they're 3.6ft wide (per pair). Despite them being flat down to 42Hz I do prefer a mid 30's frequency response. They thump pretty hard when you go back a meter from the listing position but at 2.5M you're heading towards the back of the 4M room.. They work but only just.
I like the SCM 25's and they're comfortably within budget but they just do not have enough bass for me. I'm at a bit of a loss, if the HEDD Type 20's don't work out *shrugs dunno..
The bass is there - with all ATC monitors the bass is so clean (the distortion of their new sub is like 0.003%) that you think it's not loud but it really is there when you realise the sheer level of clarity. The bass lines on Hey Nineteen by the Dan are just amazing on the 25's - like the guy is playing in the room - so tight and articulate, you sense the strings vibrating .... within the mix - I personally find them amazing monitors - truly like X Ray Vision. For me the HEDD's just don't offer the mid range resolution of the ATC famed mid driver and that's were the 25's have that ability to scream at you to fix things in the mix - nothing get's past them and it's all in that mid driver imho. It there's not enough bass for your taste then ATC have just released a 300W sub to go with them (or 12's ,20's, 45's even 50's) that will give you trouser flapping bass if your require it. I honestly don't need it though - it would be too much bass for my room. The sub is priced quite reasonably in a relative way - the 25's and the sub come in around the price of those 50's you were offered. I think as a 2.1 system you'd be blow away ..... literally if you turned that sub up too high!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 16:05:13 GMT -6
The bass is there - with all ATC monitors the bass is so clean (the distortion of their new sub is like 0.003%) that you think it's not loud but it really is there when you realise the sheer level of clarity. The bass lines on Hey Nineteen by the Dan are just amazing on the 25's - like the guy is playing in the room - so tight and articulate, you sense the strings vibrating .... within the mix - I personally find them amazing monitors - truly like X Ray Vision. For me the HEDD's just don't offer the mid range resolution of the ATC famed mid driver and that's were the 25's have that ability to scream at you to fix things in the mix - nothing get's past them and it's all in that mid driver imho. It there's not enough bass for your taste then ATC have just released a 300W sub to go with them (or 12's ,20's, 45's even 50's) that will give you trouser flapping bass if your require it. I honestly don't need it though - it would be too much bass for my room. I'm not a speaker designer so it doesn't make sense to me how a monitor that's -6dB @ 47Hz could reproduce a proper bass response, I understand the concept of bass loading but it only goes so far, if said speaker can not physically reproduce certain notes how's that helping? If I tune a bass down to D the frequency is 36.8Hz, E is 41.2Hz so what are you actually hearing? The fundamental or the harmonic?
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 27, 2022 16:50:28 GMT -6
I’ve been staying out of this, but my dream is for the Atc 25.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 20:18:59 GMT -6
I’ve been staying out of this, but my dream is for the Atc 25. Staying out of what?
I'm just honestly trying to figure out if they'd work, there seems to be a couple of ATC bargains around for whatever reason at the moment. I've just seen a local disti with an SCM25 ex-demo set for sale, 6.5K.. That's quite a bit off new and only 1800 more than the Dyn's.
If there were ever a time to go ATC it would be now. It's the picky bit I'm very aware of, there's no pseudo soffit mounts here and I'm limited in terms of placement. Originally I was meant to use a much larger room and in that one the ATC's would have worked well (probably).. Unfortunately I wasn't able to use it in the end. I'll sleep on it..
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Jul 27, 2022 20:34:55 GMT -6
If/when I ever upgrade from the current monitors I'm still making a decision about, I'm pretty sure ATC will be at the top of my list.
$6.5k for SCM25s? Man, I'd have to think about it. Is that in the UK, I take it?
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 28, 2022 2:52:59 GMT -6
A couple of years ago, I went to Studio Economik, to demo Adams in their professionally designed control room.
A pair of atc25’s were there too, so,of course, I turned them on too, also comparing to pmc and those Swiss monitors .
I had not heard good 3 way monitors before and as people say,that Atc mid was exceptional. I joked with the salesman, that if I could sell a kidney, I’d take the Atc.
A year or so later, I demoed the dyn lyd48 and thought them excellent value but was starting to lean towards closed monitors( amphion).
|
|
|
Post by christophert on Jul 28, 2022 4:46:32 GMT -6
My room is 14ft x 11ft x 8.5ft I have GIK designed full acoustic treatment in it. I concluded 45's where simply too big width wise - I would of been facing 4 feet of speaker in a room only 11 ft wide!! The 50's I was reliably told would require me to sit in the mid-field to get the best from them and my room simply isn't long enough as I was trying as best as possible to stick to the 38% rule, which in my experience works. The 25's are the right size for my room, no question in my mind and the translation of mixes is simply perfect. My conclusion was, much as I'd loved to have bought 45's or better still 50's - my room is too small. Similar issues with the Core 59's hence the reason I'm keeping my options open, they're 3.6ft wide (per pair). Despite them being flat down to 42Hz I do prefer a mid 30's frequency response. They thump pretty hard when you go back a meter from the listing position but at 2.5M you're heading towards the back of the 4M room.. They work but only just.
I like the SCM 25's and they're comfortably within budget but they just do not have enough bass for me. I'm at a bit of a loss, if the HEDD Type 20's don't work out *shrugs dunno..
|
|
|
Post by christophert on Jul 28, 2022 4:48:52 GMT -6
The Dutch and Dutch 8c's are what I went for - after testing the ATC's, the lack of bass left me not wanting to pay for the ATC monitors with not enough low end. A sub is not something I want to have on all of the time - only rarely. Much prefer to hear below 30hz at a minimum on a two way speaker.
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Jul 28, 2022 10:39:30 GMT -6
The bass is there - with all ATC monitors the bass is so clean (the distortion of their new sub is like 0.003%) that you think it's not loud but it really is there when you realise the sheer level of clarity. The bass lines on Hey Nineteen by the Dan are just amazing on the 25's - like the guy is playing in the room - so tight and articulate, you sense the strings vibrating .... within the mix - I personally find them amazing monitors - truly like X Ray Vision. For me the HEDD's just don't offer the mid range resolution of the ATC famed mid driver and that's were the 25's have that ability to scream at you to fix things in the mix - nothing get's past them and it's all in that mid driver imho. It there's not enough bass for your taste then ATC have just released a 300W sub to go with them (or 12's ,20's, 45's even 50's) that will give you trouser flapping bass if your require it. I honestly don't need it though - it would be too much bass for my room. I'm not a speaker designer so it doesn't make sense to me how a monitor that's -6dB @ 47Hz could reproduce a proper bass response, I understand the concept of bass loading but it only goes so far, if said speaker can not physically reproduce certain notes how's that helping? If I tune a bass down to D the frequency is 36.8Hz, E is 41.2Hz so what are you actually hearing? The fundamental or the harmonic? I was sceptical too as the 25's only has 6.5" bass drivers - but in my room, they are the most forgiving monitor position wise I have ever owned and when I switch between my Blue Sky 2.1 system which is satellite's and a small sub the ATC's sound no less big, no less bass. It makes no sense to me either but they honestly do provide more than adequate articulate full bass response save for providing a trouser flapping experience - which is something I'm not looking for. My mixes are in no way bass light and in fact I'm finding bass to be very accurate in translation now I'm used to hearing bass with so much clarity and so little distortion. I have the budget for their new sub but it's a fact - I simply don't need it in my room. Bass aside, the magic for me is that ATC mid driver - it goes further into the low mids than any other mid driver I've ever heard or read specs on - I'd hate to mix without it as for me 80+% of the issues mixing music lie in the mids and low mids. That said, if your looking for a dance music, EDM club playback kind of experience and don't want to add an ATC sub then yeah, the 25's are not going to cut it on their own. I'm keen to hear about what you do eventually choose
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 10:48:25 GMT -6
I was sceptical too as the 25's only has 6.5" bass drivers - but in my room, they are the most forgiving monitor position wise I have ever owned and when I switch between my Blue Sky 2.1 system which is satellite's and a small sub the ATC's sound no less big, no less bass. It makes no sense to me either but they honestly do provide more than adequate articulate full bass response save for providing a trouser flapping experience - which is something I'm not looking for. I have the budget for their new sub but it's a fact - I simply don't need it in my room. Bass aside, the magic for me is that ATC mid driver - it goes further into the low mids than any other mid driver I've ever heard or read specs on - I'd hate to mix without it as for me 80+% of the issues mixing music lie in the mids and low mids. I'm keen to hear about what you do settle on Yeah, I'm completely stumped. On the back there's a +3dB for 40Hz and I'm like hang on, it doesn't go down that low.
Also I'm going to nod super hard until I get a slight headache, LMF is a PITA and the bit I always struggle with. ATC's are still on my list despite the confusion.. I appreciate the response and the lack of trouser flapping.
|
|
|
Post by nudwig on Jul 28, 2022 13:49:29 GMT -6
The Dutch and Dutch 8c's are what I went for - after testing the ATC's, the lack of bass left me not wanting to pay for the ATC monitors with not enough low end. A sub is not something I want to have on all of the time - only rarely. Much prefer to hear below 30hz at a minimum on a two way speaker. I went with 8c's in one room and have 20's with a sub in the other. The 8c's will flap your trousers more by themselves and are easier to integrate with the room via all the internal correction but the ATC's take to the sub well and I don't feel lost switching back and forth. Or moving from mixing on 8c's to mastering which has ATC 110's
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Jul 28, 2022 13:58:22 GMT -6
I was sceptical too as the 25's only has 6.5" bass drivers - but in my room, they are the most forgiving monitor position wise I have ever owned and when I switch between my Blue Sky 2.1 system which is satellite's and a small sub the ATC's sound no less big, no less bass. It makes no sense to me either but they honestly do provide more than adequate articulate full bass response save for providing a trouser flapping experience - which is something I'm not looking for. I have the budget for their new sub but it's a fact - I simply don't need it in my room. Bass aside, the magic for me is that ATC mid driver - it goes further into the low mids than any other mid driver I've ever heard or read specs on - I'd hate to mix without it as for me 80+% of the issues mixing music lie in the mids and low mids. I'm keen to hear about what you do settle on Yeah, I'm completely stumped. On the back there's a +3dB for 40Hz and I'm like hang on, it doesn't go down that low.
Also I'm going to nod super hard until I get a slight headache, LMF is a PITA and the bit I always struggle with. ATC's are still on my list despite the confusion.. I appreciate the response and the lack of trouser flapping.
I was reading a couple of my posts thinking, I sound like a salesman for ATC I'm not! But gear is like your favourite sports teams or favourite old bands of your youth - you become a super fan. My ATC's are my All Blacks (my wifes a Kiwi) and my Coil CA-70 tube pre is my Earth Wind and Fire .... if that makes sense
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 14:02:44 GMT -6
The Dutch and Dutch 8c's are what I went for - after testing the ATC's, the lack of bass left me not wanting to pay for the ATC monitors with not enough low end. A sub is not something I want to have on all of the time - only rarely. Much prefer to hear below 30hz at a minimum on a two way speaker. The 8c's will flap your trousers. Is this a thing now? Well done heightenor ..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 14:26:33 GMT -6
I was reading a couple of my posts thinking, I sound like a salesman for ATC It's cool, I know you don't work for a disti or retail group. If it wasn't for the likes of you or Nudwig I'd have wiped them off the choice map completely, it might not seem like it sometimes but I do listen.
I said to the retailer that ATC will either work or they won't (due to their "analog" presentation) but there's only one way to find out. DSP and modern techniques like group delay compensation and cardioid bass disperion can do a lot of awesome things especially as rooms are downsizing in modern productions, I guess we'll see.. The 8C's have definitely piqued my interest as well (thanks christophert ), a few others are in there just to discard certain choices.
The retailer though seems to believe the SCM45's will work in my room, another thing we'll see about.
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Jul 29, 2022 0:37:51 GMT -6
The 8c's will flap your trousers. Is this a thing now? Well done heightenor .. Seemingly. When I was really young .... we're taking a very long time ago back when bands used Marshall stacks! I used to rehearse at a school - hard to imagine now but the head of the school used to open up the school at the weekends to let bands have a free rehearsal space - amazing really. Anyways, I was like about 17 and had a little drumkit and my friend a DIY amp and we went down to practice Rush covers (2112, Farewell to Kings :-) and in a classroom a few doors down were some older guys with a "pro" band, or so it seemed to us as they had large multiple Marshall stacks. Their amps went to 11 - honestly they did - 1 louder than 10 We used to love standing in the room listening to them play as there's amps were, as we then used to say "trouser flapping" Good job we only went in there a few times as it was probably dangerous levels for our hearing - they played for hours at that level! Sorry, trip down memory lane there for me .... I was just remembering when I first heard that phrase.
|
|