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Post by gouge on Nov 8, 2021 22:45:26 GMT -6
awesome mic. just do it.
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Post by ragan on Nov 8, 2021 23:02:05 GMT -6
I like em. I like a 441 better but I really like SM7s.
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 8, 2021 23:32:43 GMT -6
Reasons to buy one: - very good resale value - works well on rock shouters - versatile--nice on amps and kick drum too - rightly or wrongly some clients worship them - kind of idiot proof--durable and hard to screw up a vocal Reasons not to buy: - it's not likely to be your all time favorite - low mids can sound full or muddy depending on what mood you're in - you might need to buy a Cloudlifter These are good - my only personal tweaks would be: - removing the foam windscreen can take out some of those low mids.
- John won't need a Cloudlifter with the pres he's got. Honestly, anyone who has good preamps really shouldn't need a Cloudlifter.
I agree about the pres. I just don't like having to crank the gain way up.
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Post by bgrotto on Nov 9, 2021 0:19:14 GMT -6
If it works for you, it's worth considering. But you might also wanna try an SM5b first, which kicks ass all over the SM7 100% of the time (I have both and the SM5 is one of my go-to mics for male vocals, especially in a 'rootsy' or 'country' context, which i think is maybe your thing?)
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Post by chessparov on Nov 9, 2021 0:22:23 GMT -6
Best vocal chain for me with a SM7 was... SM7>Little Labs LMNO Pre. QRS as to how is sounded. I was surprised, that I may actually prefer such a detailed "clean" Pre (LMNO Pre)... Versus something like a 1073 or UA 610 style Pre. Made it sound rather "condenser-ish) The 'ol RNP is supposed to complement the 545/57/58/SM7's too. Chris P.S. I like the Launcher, for these Unidynes also. On assertive vocals. A little goes a long way!
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Post by chessparov on Nov 9, 2021 0:26:32 GMT -6
(Best Peter Falk/Det. Columbo voice)... "Just one more thing".
My sense John, on your voice, sometimes the SM7 will be the ticket. But other times, you may well prefer one of your condensers. Chris
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 9, 2021 0:42:57 GMT -6
These are good - my only personal tweaks would be: - removing the foam windscreen can take out some of those low mids.
- John won't need a Cloudlifter with the pres he's got. Honestly, anyone who has good preamps really shouldn't need a Cloudlifter.
I agree about the pres. I just don't like having to crank the gain way up. Understood. IME, though, a "Cloudlifter" device often introduces more noise than the pre cranked up. I seem to remember EmRR mentioning this at some point, too.
Obviously if you've got something like an original V72 or a 40dB-max preamp, you'll have to pick up gain somewhere else. But for how many people is that actually the case?
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Post by jampa on Nov 9, 2021 1:18:56 GMT -6
just go ahead and get an SM7b
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Post by theshea on Nov 9, 2021 2:49:41 GMT -6
buy it. try it. its cheap. for my part i can suggest the GAP R1 mkii, it gives me a „sm7 vibe alternative but different“ for recording vocals. i do really like the R1 on certain vocals.
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Post by javamad on Nov 9, 2021 2:56:53 GMT -6
+1 on getting one to try.
Especially as you live in Easy-Returns-Land :-)
I have one thatI have used on vocal when doing live off the floor recordings which had really low spill. I have also used it on HH, bass amp and a bunch of sibilant or shouty singers.
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Post by enlav on Nov 9, 2021 7:42:55 GMT -6
I'm curious if there's reason to cause the hesitation; do you already have too many mics (in your opinion)? Is the locker/cabinet getting a little full?
I'm probably one of the folks who has a bit of a bias towards the 7b, but it was mostly for the following reasons:
1) I personally don't sound good on it. (But plenty of clients have in the past)
2) As bizarre as it sounds, I worked at a couple studios that didn't have one, but had killer mics in general, and seeing clients disheartened that we didn't have a 7b, but we had a Manley Ref, Neumann M149, U87AI's, TLM193's, Peluso 2247 LE, P12, P67, and then basically every other dynamic (MD441, MD421, RE20, RE27)... just... I dunno. I'm still puzzled, both as to why at least one 7b didn't make its way to those rooms, and how someone was extremely familiar with what the SM7B was but not any of the previously mentioned microphones or their modeled counterparts.
3) Probably the most returned microphone at my sales/retail gig years back. It's absolutely not a bad microphone, but I think for a variety of reasons, it just sold like hot cakes to people weren't being qualified for the purchase (not saying you have to "prove" you should be able to buy something, but maybe this microphone isn't going to sound the way you want it going into an M-Audio Solo, Presonus Audiobox; you don't sell someone something without making sure they have the knowledge and any additional accessories necessary to succeed).
-------------------
But you're a professional with high quality gear, you'll definitely find good uses with the SM7B.
I don't think it's been mentioned, but in my experience, the SM7b is better than other microphones at off-axis rejection. That coupled with its tone/sound makes it a good scratch vocal microphone, and if the RE20 doesn't cut it on a particular bandmember in that setting, the 7b usually does.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 9, 2021 7:46:47 GMT -6
I agree about the pres. I just don't like having to crank the gain way up. Understood. IME, though, a "Cloudlifter" device often introduces more noise than the pre cranked up. I seem to remember EmRR mentioning this at some point, too.
Obviously if you've got something like an original V72 or a 40dB-max preamp, you'll have to pick up gain somewhere else. But for how many people is that actually the case?
I just drew blood in a CrapShifter conversation elsewhere. Use compressor make-up gain instead. Far better. For most preamps, full gain is actually the quietest noise floor; counterintuitive, masked by the fact so much gain has been added to the mic level. You have to have a really noisy crappy preamp to show a SmogShitter doing better on noise. Every Mackie/etc has approached theoretical lowest possible noise for decades already. That $150 is better spent on a proper preamp, not a band-aid for a shitty one. Now - a ShartLifter may improve the sound of a ribbon with some pre’s, by providing a lighter impedance loading. This is not universal, also fixed by just buying the right damn preamp in the first place.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 9, 2021 9:36:48 GMT -6
Reasons to buy one: - very good resale value - works well on rock shouters - versatile--nice on amps and kick drum too - rightly or wrongly some clients worship them - kind of idiot proof--durable and hard to screw up a vocal Reasons not to buy: - it's not likely to be your all time favorite - low mids can sound full or muddy depending on what mood you're in - you might need to buy a Cloudlifter These are good - my only personal tweaks would be: - removing the foam windscreen can take out some of those low mids.
- John won't need a Cloudlifter with the pres he's got. Honestly, anyone who has good preamps really shouldn't need a Cloudlifter.
that's good to know
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Post by Guitar on Nov 9, 2021 9:41:58 GMT -6
I agree about the pres. I just don't like having to crank the gain way up. Understood. IME, though, a "Cloudlifter" device often introduces more noise than the pre cranked up. I seem to remember EmRR mentioning this at some point, too.
Obviously if you've got something like an original V72 or a 40dB-max preamp, you'll have to pick up gain somewhere else. But for how many people is that actually the case?
It's the people using 2i2's, Zoom H6, things like that, trying to use the SM7B with quiet singers, that has created the myth of the Cloudlifter. Basically a super low end studio setup, with a mic like this that's not very sensitive. I've never needed one of the things but I bought the KT CM-2 just to have one to play with, since I have a Zoom H6 (terrible preamps, noisy.)
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 9, 2021 9:52:54 GMT -6
I'm curious if there's reason to cause the hesitation; do you already have too many mics (in your opinion)? Is the locker/cabinet getting a little full? I'm probably one of the folks who has a bit of a bias towards the 7b, but it was mostly for the following reasons: 1) I personally don't sound good on it. (But plenty of clients have in the past)
2) As bizarre as it sounds, I worked at a couple studios that didn't have one, but had killer mics in general, and seeing clients disheartened that we didn't have a 7b, but we had a Manley Ref, Neumann M149, U87AI's, TLM193's, Peluso 2247 LE, P12, P67, and then basically every other dynamic (MD441, MD421, RE20, RE27)... just... I dunno. I'm still puzzled, both as to why at least one 7b didn't make its way to those rooms, and how someone was extremely familiar with what the SM7B was but not any of the previously mentioned microphones or their modeled counterparts. 3) Probably the most returned microphone at my sales/retail gig years back. It's absolutely not a bad microphone, but I think for a variety of reasons, it just sold like hot cakes to people weren't being qualified for the purchase (not saying you have to "prove" you should be able to buy something, but maybe this microphone isn't going to sound the way you want it going into an M-Audio Solo, Presonus Audiobox; you don't sell someone something without making sure they have the knowledge and any additional accessories necessary to succeed). ------------------- But you're a professional with high quality gear, you'll definitely find good uses with the SM7B.
I don't think it's been mentioned, but in my experience, the SM7b is better than other microphones at off-axis rejection. That coupled with its tone/sound makes it a good scratch vocal microphone, and if the RE20 doesn't cut it on a particular bandmember in that setting, the 7b usually does. Just because I don't "need" it. I've really kind've hit the sweet spot on my gear. I've bought enough, sold enough, bought back again, re-sold, rinse repeat. Nothing makes me sound like Paul on Blackbird.lol But absolutely nothing is holding me back. I'm also to the point where I don't like to have redundant stuff. It bothers me. If I have more mic pres than I need - it bothers me. The more I do this stuff, the less precious I've gotten about everything. "I have to have that $5000 U47 clone and set it up in my hermetically sealed and measured room..." Now I'm so lazy, I sit in front of the computer and set the mic up to sing. Because - nobody can tell the effing difference. Ok - if I were making a major record - I would stand up... But to get to the point - I've just avoided it because it would be redundant. I've got a main vocal mic that sounds great...little heavy to move around because of the Triad Orbit stand and it's a 47...but I could see myself permanently setting up the SM7 and never touching the other one again lol. I'm just making conversation - not really struggling with anything.
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Post by brenta on Nov 9, 2021 9:59:52 GMT -6
I’ve got 2 SM7B’s, an SM7, and an RE20. Besides everything that’s been mentioned, they also have better shielding than SM57’s and the like, so if you have EMI in your studio like I do, they will have a much quieter noise floor. They get used on all kinds of stuff here.
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Post by chessparov on Nov 9, 2021 10:02:39 GMT -6
Hmm... Maybe I should compare my Launcher, running line level through it. Thanks Doug. Chris
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Post by bossanova on Nov 9, 2021 10:03:26 GMT -6
Many people either don’t know or forget this, but the 1st Gen 2i2 has terribly noisy pre’s, especially past 1:00 or so. The Cloudlifter on that one Is a major improvement.
On a different topic, y’all have begrudgingly inspired me to retrieve my SM7B from the mic “vault” and leave it set up on a stand. It doesn’t have any air/space/depth to the sound and that drives me crazy, but it also wins the “small/bad room” shootout more often than not. It always feels like a mic that was very much suited for the dry 90s/2000s sound, if not so much other eras of production aesthetics.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 9, 2021 10:04:26 GMT -6
Just because I don't "need" it. I've really kind've hit the sweet spot on my gear. I've bought enough, sold enough, bought back again, re-sold, rinse repeat. Nothing makes me sound like Paul on Blackbird.lol But absolutely nothing is holding me back. I'm also to the point where I don't like to have redundant stuff. It bothers me. If I have more mic pres than I need - it bothers me. The more I do this stuff, the less precious I've gotten about everything. "I have to have that $5000 U47 clone and set it up in my hermetically sealed and measured room..." Now I'm so lazy, I sit in front of the computer and set the mic up to sing. Because - nobody can tell the effing difference. Ok - if I were making a major record - I would stand up... But to get to the point - I've just avoided it because it would be redundant. I've got a main vocal mic that sounds great...little heavy to move around because of the Triad Orbit stand and it's a 47...but I could see myself permanently setting up the SM7 and never touching the other one again lol. I'm just making conversation - not really struggling with anything. That's why I sold mine. I don't need it, don't need the options, mostly recording myself. I already have this wonderful vocal mic I use. If it's sitting on a shelf it's fair game to sell. Now, if I were busy recording the public, I would absolutely have one on hand, pronto.
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Post by enlav on Nov 9, 2021 10:09:33 GMT -6
Nothing makes me sound like Paul on Blackbird. That rings too true to me. I know I'll never hit "Golden Slumber" levels of quality, but I always hope that some combination of age/fitness/gear will get me even a degree closer. But I completely understand what you mean now. I'd get it just for the convenience -- I imagine the 7b will handle transients very differently from your 47, and certainly fit some songs and performances better than any condenser. Many people either don’t know or forget this, but the 1st Gen 2i2 has terribly noisy pre’s, especially past 1:00 or so. The Cloudlifter on that one Is a major improvement. ^This -- Even my Scarlett 18i6 (not to be mistaken for an 18i8) would generate a horrible noise floor around that same point. My cloudlifter was very useful doing remote gigs on that with an MD441 and RE20, but I stopped using it entirely after I got my Daking Mic Pre One.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2021 10:19:50 GMT -6
The SM7B is the ultimate bedroom / metal / heavy rock mic, it doesn't sound all that good but it's probably the handiest mic ever made. Because of its RF / off-axis rejection properties you can get a decent take pretty much anywhere. Also because it strips a lot of nuance out of a vocal, has the stereo width of a pin head and can be warped beyond recognition it works better than it should do in a wall of sound type mix.
Plus it's pretty good on guitar cabs / kick drum, I prefer it over the SM57. However if you want a vocal to shine in a studio setting with a medium / low density mix there's a metric ton of better options. If price isn't an issue then the MD441-U is probably one of the best sounding dynamic mics out there and can pretty much do everything the SM7B can, however it's not quite as durable (the SM7B really is a mobile tank).
Just to note, even without the presence boost function it can get a bit piercing on some vocalists. However if you're using an SM7B chances are you'll crush the vocal into a sine wave anyway and EQ the daylights out of it so I guess that doesn't really matter.
In summary, I'll tell you just to go ahead and buy a Sennheiser MD-441U. It's what you're looking for without a trade off in quality, that mic will honestly beat out some high end condensers dependant on the vocalist.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 9, 2021 10:41:28 GMT -6
@soriantis that's funny, you made a great case for the SM7B, then recommend something else. I laughed.
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 9, 2021 11:56:08 GMT -6
I agree about the pres. I just don't like having to crank the gain way up. Understood. IME, though, a "Cloudlifter" device often introduces more noise than the pre cranked up. I seem to remember EmRR mentioning this at some point, too.
Obviously if you've got something like an original V72 or a 40dB-max preamp, you'll have to pick up gain somewhere else. But for how many people is that actually the case?
Probably not for most of us here. But if a newbie with an entry level interface is tuning in to gain knowledge about getting an SM7b they should be aware that it's a low gain mic. I've never noticed any noise issues with a Cloudlifter. Also, sometimes in my studio certain dynamic mics suffer from EMI which is another reason for me not to raise the the noise floor of a pre. This isn't an issue where I'm right and your wrong--just pointing out a different perspective.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 9, 2021 12:04:52 GMT -6
The SM7B is the ultimate bedroom / metal / heavy rock mic, it doesn't sound all that good but it's probably the handiest mic ever made. Because of its RF / off-axis rejection properties you can get a decent take pretty much anywhere. Also because it strips a lot of nuance out of a vocal, has the stereo width of a pin head and can be warped beyond recognition it works better than it should do in a wall of sound type mix. Plus it's pretty good on guitar cabs / kick drum, I prefer it over the SM57. However if you want a vocal to shine in a studio setting with a medium / low density mix there's a metric ton of better options. If price isn't an issue then the MD441-U is probably one of the best sounding dynamic mics out there and can pretty much do everything the SM7B can, however it's not quite as durable (the SM7B really is a mobile tank). Just to note, even without the presence boost function it can get a bit piercing on some vocalists. However if you're using an SM7B chances are you'll crush the vocal into a sine wave anyway and EQ the daylights out of it so I guess that doesn't really matter. In summary, I'll tell you just to go ahead and buy a Sennheiser MD-441U. It's what you're looking for without a trade off in quality, that mic will honestly beat out some high end condensers dependant on the vocalist.
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Post by earlevel on Nov 9, 2021 12:16:31 GMT -6
There's a youtube video...can't quite think of the engineer/producer conducting it, I'd have to actually stop and think. it's a mic shootout, female singer, the usual high-end-studio suspects and a visually-impressive and expensive boutique mic. After the recording session, she picks the mic she likes—"that one", points to the SM7B. He says, "you picked the 'do no harm' mic..." I thought that was a good way to put it.
It may not be the perfect mic for a given vocalist, but it's unlikely to be a bad mic for any. It may not deliver every nuance, but the story you get from it sounds honest (without ornamentation) and I think that's one reason rockers like it. It takes EQ well, too, if you want to bring out a little more crispness. It's also a can't-go-wrong for background vocals, where you can get too much attention-seeking and build-up of frequencies from more "interesting" mics.
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