ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 1, 2021 19:32:48 GMT -6
Don't say "room treatment." Let's assume that we're talking about the typical "better than novice, but it's still a home studio" type here. Someone like myself. Workable mic collection. Some room treatment. Enough tools to get the job done. Mostly recording myself but picking up more external projects and looking to increase that. What is the one thing that is probably more important that I realize? And the only reason I'm saying "don't say room treatment" is that I think we all already know that. That's the stock answer on every similar post to this one so let's just assume that there can always be more and better room treatment. Thoughts? Forget treatment how about just ROOM!!! Seriously I don’t care how much or who treats my bedroom it will never sound like the big room at Sound City!
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Post by srb on Mar 1, 2021 20:18:36 GMT -6
I'm not a home studio, but probably the greatest asset about my studio is speed. I've always got a great kit mic'd up and ready to go. Band comes in, get some quick levels, and off the the races. I've got a bass cab ready in an iso booth. Guitar cab ready in an iso booth. Flea47 plugged in and ready for vox. Whatever the band is looking to accomplish, I'm basically ready to roll. A lot of bands don't want to screw around with setup and levels for 3 hours at the top of the day. Let's get in and get cookin. My studio is located where I live...same edifice. So I guess I do have a "home studio", but mine's not a typical one. I built so I could do both. Man's gotta have a place to lay his head down. I am very well equipped. I'd like to have more space sometimes, but the space I have sounds good. Room sounds are part of the equation here. Proud to have seen today a review of an album I engineered and co-produced recently that gave credit to, "...the precision production values that keep getting harder to come by.” I also keep a great sounding kit mic'ed up 95% of the time, and all the other accouterments ready to go, too. Come on in, and let's get to work. Clients appreciate that very much. On a personal note: I'm enjoying this community very much after having registered years ago and then just read and lurked until more recently. Thanks for allowing me to be here and to participate. I feel I've had a warm and pleasant welcome.
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Post by popmann on Mar 1, 2021 20:30:39 GMT -6
The cumulative effect of all "the little things". Whether you're talking Neve preamp vs interface...NOS tubes vs new production...this 36 layer piano vs that 18 layer piano sample...this plug in compressor vs this other one, vs the analog equivalents...pick any given one--it doesn't make THAT much difference. None of those are deterministic of good or bad sound.
I believe that they believe there's ONE "secret" to any given pursuit. Like good vocal tone on a record? It's this ONE thing--very often it's whichever they are "lacking" themselves, but will soon buy...the secret to killer guitar tone is...the amp? Better modeling? Pickups? Tape? An ISO cab because obviously all amps sound better on 10?!
And sometimes when there IS a "secret"...and it's technique and not a box, well--it can't be THAT...which is the other manifestation: underestimating the cumulative effect of engineering knowledge and experience. I just did some work for an old buddy--hadn't worked with him in 20 years. He says he's "blown away...have you been practicing?" --I mean, I've been doing this 20 years since we last worked. I just said "I guess so".
So, the debate rages about any given topic: it's the gear...no, it's the technique...because it can't be BOTH, right? In no logical world could those both be true(sic)--that there IS gear that sounds better than other gear...AND it's important to know how to use it and have the ears to dynamically change settings as needed?
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Post by jmoose on Mar 1, 2021 20:48:46 GMT -6
...having a clean bong... May seem like a funny answer but stuff like that can make all the difference. It's like the old Bob Clearmountain quote... What do you look for in a studio? A clean bathroom. Working on your own at home is one thing. When you start taking peoples money it's another. #1 thing is to learn how to handle clients and pace a session. There are expectations... I've been in studios with great, experienced engineers that can get excellent sounds but have zero skills outside of that. Couldn't produce a screwdriver to fix a strap button... couldn't produce a ham sandwich or bowl of popcorn. Couldn't produce a bag of weed or even a lighter... And if you can't produce any of that then surely, producing an actual record just ain't gonna happen. Some of it is basic creature comforts and simple needs to keep things moving. As said having a table & place for someone to put their keys, write lyrics, eat that ham & cheese... or even change guitar strings. Even just a place to sit that's not in front of the speakers and or used as horizontal junk storage. Anyone can hang a mic and answer the phone. Having people that want to work with you again takes a bit more.
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Post by chessparov on Mar 1, 2021 22:14:41 GMT -6
Great thread. Thanks guys. Chris
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 2, 2021 0:14:20 GMT -6
I am a home recordist. I used to underestimate TRACKING. But now, for me tracking is king. It is amazing how easy something is to mix if it is tracked right. Here is what made that light bulb come on for me. drumsound (Tony S) has done some drum work for me. He sends me the individual tracks. I pull them into my DAW, I push the faders up and follow the rough panning guide he sent me. I listen. I say to myself “holy fuck they sound great just like they are...they have mixed themselves”. I tell Tony how the drums “mixed themselves” and he says it’s because he made sure he tracked them right in the first place. To me this cannot emphasized enough. Tracking is king. Oh well there you go, it's easy! Just make sure everything sounds great at the point of tracking and you're done. Nothing to it! Seriously though, this is great advice. I wonder how much we are seduced by all the "fun" tools to mix and fix and how much that directs our attention to the wrong place.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 2, 2021 0:30:54 GMT -6
I wonder how much we are seduced by all the "fun" tools to mix and fix and how much that directs our attention to the wrong place. I use those tools during tracking. Get it working before rolling tape.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 2, 2021 0:42:28 GMT -6
I wonder how much we are seduced by all the "fun" tools to mix and fix and how much that directs our attention to the wrong place. I use those tools during tracking. Get it working before rolling tape. I've been thinking a lot about this and experimenting with committing more going in. I don't know if it sounds better or not but I'm certainly focusing more on making it sounds good and less on making sure it can sound good someday. And having a lot more fun.
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Post by askomiko on Mar 2, 2021 2:43:54 GMT -6
Player skills and song arrangement. Two SM57's and kickass players is just a vacation for nerves compared to bunch of clueless players with any gear.
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Post by drumsound on Mar 2, 2021 9:44:19 GMT -6
I am a home recordist. I used to underestimate TRACKING. But now, for me tracking is king. It is amazing how easy something is to mix if it is tracked right. Here is what made that light bulb come on for me. drumsound (Tony S) has done some drum work for me. He sends me the individual tracks. I pull them into my DAW, I push the faders up and follow the rough panning guide he sent me. I listen. I say to myself “holy fuck they sound great just like they are...they have mixed themselves”. I tell Tony how the drums “mixed themselves” and he says it’s because he made sure he tracked them right in the first place. To me this cannot emphasized enough. Tracking is king. Thanks for this Greg. I was lucky enough to come up in a fairly modest room, but with some key things, like nice amps and instruments. I learned that it was always worth it to get out of the chair to work on a sound. Wether that meant moving or swapping a mic, or adjusting a guitar amp, or plugging in a pedal, or working with the players to get them more locked in, or sometimes just saying "hey, lets take a few minutes without headphones on."
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Post by Vincent R. on Mar 2, 2021 22:18:24 GMT -6
The benefit of being in a room with more experienced engineers than yourself, who can be more objective than you are working on your music and who bring a different view point to the table, but whose goal is still to make the best recording they can of your work.
Also, the benefit of not having to be the producer, engineer, and talent all at once.
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 2, 2021 22:45:01 GMT -6
Dynamic mics are not "less than."
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Post by bluegrassdan on Mar 2, 2021 23:05:26 GMT -6
Intonation
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 3, 2021 10:48:25 GMT -6
Dynamic mics are not "less than." Ok, I'll bite. Can you elaborate?
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Post by jpanderson80 on Mar 3, 2021 11:22:28 GMT -6
Dynamic mics are not "less than." Ok, I'll bite. Can you elaborate? Dynamics are different but not less than. For some sources, dynamics work the best. It all depends. There's plenty of great vocalists that have used dynamics (MJ used a SM7, Bono used a Beta58, the list goes on...) I'll don't mind a 57 through a nice pre vs. any cheap LDC (read: thin, brittle, crispy) for many sources just about any day.
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Post by chessparov on Mar 3, 2021 11:27:12 GMT -6
Those dynamics are also going through great signal chains... Chris
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 3, 2021 11:44:16 GMT -6
Dynamic mics are not "less than." Ok, I'll bite. Can you elaborate? I've got an SM7 permanently set up on my Mesa 6x10 bass cab in the iso booth.
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Post by Ned Ward on Mar 3, 2021 11:46:01 GMT -6
Objectivity - a studio wants you to have a great track, but isn't emotionally invested in it, so they can suggest changes that serve the song vs. holding onto parts for emotional reasons.
It's not about the gear as much as the person behind the gear. I know that a professional could come to my house and instantly get better recordings and takes because they will give me advice and recommendations I wouldn't have guessed.
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Post by brenta on Mar 3, 2021 12:02:58 GMT -6
My answer is: everything.
A friend of mine that's in a couple bands I engineer/mix is working on a solo record, and he decided he wants to engineer and mix it all himself. He bought some total garbage gear, set it up in his untreated apartment, downloaded a free DAW, watched some YouTube videos on how to engineer, and has been making his record. It sounds absolutely atrocious. His bandmates want me to lead an intervention because they don't have the heart to tell him how bad it sounds. It's really too bad because some of the songs are brilliant, but they will never get any radio play and never get added to a streaming playlist because the sonics are unlistenable. The songs will disappear and never be heard.
The trend over the last couple of decades is everyone wants to have their own studio. Unfortunately, even $5k is just enough to put together a garbage studio. That same $5k could be used to record a full album in a top-tier studio with a seasoned and accomplished engineer. Besides the gear aspect, people who try to get good at everything tend to fail at everything. It takes years to get good at mixing, and every hour you spend learning to mix is an hour you could've spent getting better at your instrument or writing songs, which are things that music fans really care about.
Then there are the less tangible and less noticed things that others have mentioned in this thread that really add up to a big difference: the ambience/mood of the place, the efficiency and workflow of a professional, an engineer with a calm and non-judgemental demeanor that puts musicians at ease and allows them to give their best performances, the little things like coffee, a phone charger, some candles, a clean bathroom...
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 3, 2021 12:17:29 GMT -6
Dynamic mics are not "less than." Ok, I'll bite. Can you elaborate? It’s common for musicians that are new to recording to think they need to “upgrade” to an LDC or ribbon mic to be “pro.” But as others have pointed out dynamic mics are an important tool. A friend of mine just recorded a whole album singing into an RE20. She has a powerful voice and plays acoustic at the same time, and the LDC captured too much unneeded information while the RE20 was focused and powerful (I heard the basic tracks).
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 3, 2021 12:32:41 GMT -6
My answer is: everything. A friend of mine that's in a couple bands I engineer/mix is working on a solo record, and he decided he wants to engineer and mix it all himself. He bought some total garbage gear, set it up in his untreated apartment, downloaded a free DAW, watched some YouTube videos on how to engineer, and has been making his record. It sounds absolutely atrocious. His bandmates want me to lead an intervention because they don't have the heart to tell him how bad it sounds. It's really too bad because some of the songs are brilliant, but they will never get any radio play and never get added to a streaming playlist because the sonics are unlistenable. The songs will disappear and never be heard. The trend over the last couple of decades is everyone wants to have their own studio. Unfortunately, even $5k is just enough to put together a garbage studio. That same $5k could be used to record a full album in a top-tier studio with a seasoned and accomplished engineer. Besides the gear aspect, people who try to get good at everything tend to fail at everything. It takes years to get good at mixing, and every hour you spend learning to mix is an hour you could've spent getting better at your instrument or writing songs, which are things that music fans really care about. Then there are the less tangible and less noticed things that others have mentioned in this thread that really add up to a big difference: the ambience/mood of the place, the efficiency and workflow of a professional, an engineer with a calm and non-judgemental demeanor that puts musicians at ease and allows them to give their best performances, the little things like coffee, a phone charger, some candles, a clean bathroom... Valid points but...most of us worked through the early stage of sounding crappy to get to the place where our recordings inspire the listener. I personally would never discourage a musician from learning how to record even if it sucks the first couple of go arounds. Failure is a great way to learn.
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Post by brenta on Mar 3, 2021 12:43:50 GMT -6
My answer is: everything. A friend of mine that's in a couple bands I engineer/mix is working on a solo record, and he decided he wants to engineer and mix it all himself. He bought some total garbage gear, set it up in his untreated apartment, downloaded a free DAW, watched some YouTube videos on how to engineer, and has been making his record. It sounds absolutely atrocious. His bandmates want me to lead an intervention because they don't have the heart to tell him how bad it sounds. It's really too bad because some of the songs are brilliant, but they will never get any radio play and never get added to a streaming playlist because the sonics are unlistenable. The songs will disappear and never be heard. The trend over the last couple of decades is everyone wants to have their own studio. Unfortunately, even $5k is just enough to put together a garbage studio. That same $5k could be used to record a full album in a top-tier studio with a seasoned and accomplished engineer. Besides the gear aspect, people who try to get good at everything tend to fail at everything. It takes years to get good at mixing, and every hour you spend learning to mix is an hour you could've spent getting better at your instrument or writing songs, which are things that music fans really care about. Then there are the less tangible and less noticed things that others have mentioned in this thread that really add up to a big difference: the ambience/mood of the place, the efficiency and workflow of a professional, an engineer with a calm and non-judgemental demeanor that puts musicians at ease and allows them to give their best performances, the little things like coffee, a phone charger, some candles, a clean bathroom... Valid points but...most of us worked through the early stage of sounding crappy to get to the place where our recordings inspire the listener. I personally would never discourage a musician from learning how to record even if it sucks the first couple of go arounds. Failure is a great way to learn. That's true, I certainly went through the beginner stage of bad gear and learning to engineer. But I was focused on trying to be a great engineer and nothing else. I wasn't trying to be a great musician and artist and also a great engineer. And all my money went to recording gear, instead of trying to divide it between recording gear and instruments and marketing an album. So I guess that's where I see the problems, is when people try to spread their time and money too thin amongst too many different things.
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Post by plinker on Mar 3, 2021 12:46:16 GMT -6
2006: I'm listening to tracks that I captured during my first live recording of a 7-piece trad Irish band.
Me: I'm really disappointed in how these came out
Friend: I think those horns sound pretty good.
Me: Those are violins...
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Post by jpanderson80 on Mar 3, 2021 13:08:04 GMT -6
2006: I'm listening to tracks that I captured during my first live recording of a 7-piece trad Irish band. Me: I'm really disappointed in how these came out Friend: I think those horns sound pretty good. Me: Those are violins... That one made me laugh out loud.
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Post by Pueblo Audio on Mar 3, 2021 16:19:25 GMT -6
COMMUNITY
Having the fortune of coming up through various studios, it’s Community which is the strongest element absent for the Home recordist.
So what do I mean?
You don’t find at 1234 East MyHouse St. a complex of studios with, say, DuranDuran in B, Joni Mitchell in C, and a “Movie of the Week” score going down in A. Imagine the quantity and quality of talent present on that single evening. Not just the artist, but the engineering staff, arrangers, contractors, cartage, piano tuners, session musicians, technicians, etc..
The exposure and cross-pollination is just beyond. Hanging out in the lounges or hallways rubbing elbows, sharing ideas and experiencing that hive energy... no substitute on earth. Nothing comes close.
Community
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