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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 15, 2021 19:33:52 GMT -6
Good to hear from you Ragan and Mark.
Funny you should say that Jesse, I was saying to a friend this morning it would be cool if Toontrack had a tutorial dept. and you could pay a fee, like $49 for a series of lessons. I know of many teachers who've done just that kind of thing. I was just getting a little bit enthusiastic about spending some time with SD3 this week but just got news I'll probably need a surgical procedure this week. That will set me back a few weeks. It'll be my fourth in 15 months.
One of the scary parts is they put huge tubes down my throat while I'm under anesthesia and it's already made my voice a little raspy, so I hope it doesn't do yet more damage. Better than being dead though ;-)
I'll try to sneak some time in if I'm well enough, but will be glad to hear more of your great tips and suggestions.
I wonder if any big hits were done with Superior Drummer.
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 15, 2021 19:58:23 GMT -6
Good to hear from you Ragan and Mark. Funny you should say that Jesse, I was saying to a friend this morning it would be cool if Toontrack had a tutorial dept. and you could pay a fee, like $49 for a series of lessons. I know of many teachers who've done just that kind of thing. I was just getting a little bit enthusiastic about spending some time with SD3 this week but just got news I'll probably need a surgical procedure this week. That will set me back a few weeks. It'll be my fourth in 15 months. One of the scary parts is they put huge tubes down my throat while I'm under anesthesia and it's already made my voice a little raspy, so I hope it doesn't do yet more damage. Better than being dead though ;-) I'll try to sneak some time in if I'm well enough, but will be glad to hear more of your great tips and suggestions. I wonder if any big hits were done with Superior Drummer. Wow, tough news, Martin. I sure hope the procedure goes well. Keep us updated. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 15, 2021 21:35:37 GMT -6
Thanks Mark. Luckily I'm in NYC and go to Mt. Sinai hospital. The doctors there are truly the best of the best.
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Post by wiz on Feb 15, 2021 22:03:11 GMT -6
Get well bud
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Post by ragan on Feb 15, 2021 22:05:28 GMT -6
Yeah hang in there, Martin. Nothing like chasing some musical/audio goals to refresh yourself and take your mind off of other struggles, at least for me.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 15, 2021 22:55:46 GMT -6
Also, I just have to say that this thread made me visit the Toontrack website to take a look at all their drum MIDI packs. It really is pretty hilarious the imbalance there. They have them grouped by category of drum style: Metal: 26 different MIDI packs Rock: 20 different MIDI packs Pop & Modern: 12 different MIDI packs Blues, Soul, & Roots: 10 different MIDI packs Country & Americana: 7 different MIDI packs, though: - one of those is actually called "Soul Grooves," so is misplaced in the wrong category
- another is called "Blues MIDI," also misplaced in the wrong category
- another is called "Session Drums," and listening to the previews of it, I would unfortunately have to fire the drummer as being inappropriate for the style were he to show up as the session drummer on a recording date for either a Country or an Americana gig (at least if he only played the parts he plays in this expansion pack)
So in actuality, there are really only 4 different MIDI packs for Country & Americana, which I just find to be laughable. The other regrettable thing is that of these MIDI packs, only 2 (maybe 3?) of them feature a drummer known for playing this style. The others feature a drummer primarily known for metal or hard rock. I'm not saying a metal drummer can't play Americana, no more than I would argue a metal guitarist can't play a banjo, it's just that TT really need to get some more diversity going. There are nuances to playing Americana and Country that drummers who are devoted to the genre bring, just like metal drummers who specialize in their genre. ALSO also: Last night I ended up doing what I recommended to Martin John Butler and spent a couple hours going through all the MIDI grooves in my Groove Browser (I have a lot) and favoriting the ones that stood out to me. It had been a pretty long while since I'd done that, and I found more usable ones than I had in the past. I liked quite a few in the MIDI pack that comes with the Nashville EZX. I don't remember liking those grooves much in years past, but I liked some of them last night. And I always like a number of Chris Whitten's grooves in both Custom & Vintage and in The Classic. Also some of the most usable, unobtrusive fills around for Americana/songwriter-style music. Unfortunately, I don't think you can buy Chris's MIDI apart from those expansions. Yeah, those Harry Stinson grooves in the Nashville EZX are great. The “Push” ones are standard grooves with ghost notes and I swear it’s one of the only packs that has them. The Soul one I think is Chad Cromwell’s kits and grooves. One of my favorite drummers. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 15, 2021 22:56:31 GMT -6
Yeah get well man.
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Post by theshea on Feb 16, 2021 1:26:30 GMT -6
One annoying thing, does every Massenberg produced chorus have a ride cymbal? aarrgghh, it sound soooo dated. i would try a tamburine or some handclaps instead. i would play them live myself, no loops. get well soon. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 16, 2021 11:22:36 GMT -6
Thanks guys, I'm off for some testes and will be at the hospital either tomorrow or the next day. I'll give you all a shout when I get back.
Thanks for mentioning those grooves on EZ-X John. I'll have to check when I get home later tonight, I may already have them.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 16, 2021 11:34:20 GMT -6
Thanks guys, I'm off for some testes and will be at the hospital either tomorrow or the next day. I'll give you all a shout when I get back. Thanks for mentioning those grooves on EZ-X John. I'll have to check when I get home later tonight, I may already have them. Rooting for you brother. Good luck. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 16, 2021 12:04:19 GMT -6
Thanks guys, I'm off for some testes and will be at the hospital either tomorrow or the next day. I'll give you all a shout when I get back. Thanks for mentioning those grooves on EZ-X John. I'll have to check when I get home later tonight, I may already have them. Good luck getting your new testicles... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 16, 2021 13:17:34 GMT -6
I'd correct that, but it's too funny. We need all the laughs we can get these days.
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Post by notneeson on Feb 16, 2021 13:17:53 GMT -6
Thanks guys, I'm off for some testes and will be at the hospital either tomorrow or the next day. I'll give you all a shout when I get back. Thanks for mentioning those grooves on EZ-X John. I'll have to check when I get home later tonight, I may already have them. Good luck getting your new testicles... His voice is gonna drop an octave! |
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Post by geoff738 on Feb 16, 2021 15:51:02 GMT -6
Best wishes on a speedy recovery.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 16, 2021 16:37:52 GMT -6
Good luck getting your new testicles... His voice is gonna drop an octave! At least I'll finally be able to do the full Johnny Cash! I'm told I'm a baritone, but I don't have all the power I'd like in the lower keys. James Taylor gets a full tone in the key of D, I'm good in E. James Taylor sounds better. |
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Post by notneeson on Feb 17, 2021 10:55:58 GMT -6
His voice is gonna drop an octave! At least I'll finally be able to do the full Johnny Cash! I'm told I'm a baritone, but I don't have all the power I'd like in the lower keys. James Taylor gets a full tone in the key of D, I'm good in E. James Taylor sounds better. Rooting for you Martin, hope all goes smoothly and you're back to making music ASAP. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Feb 17, 2021 20:04:37 GMT -6
I might have to check SD3 out after all of this. Wasn't a fan of the sample sounds they put up when it came out, but if it's working this well for you guys playing live -> MIDI, that would be cool.
The setup I tried a few years ago is a Roland TD-20 brain, triggered hi-hat stand and triggers on mesh heads on a real kit. Plays great, but wasn't getting good results in the computer, especially with snare flams, ghost notes and such. Spent so much time editing and adding to it that I just gave up on the idea.
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Post by popmann on Feb 17, 2021 20:27:57 GMT -6
I might have to check SD3 out after all of this. Wasn't a fan of the sample sounds they put up when it came out, but if it's working this well for you guys playing live -> MIDI, that would be cool. The setup I tried a few years ago is a Roland TD-20 brain, triggered hi-hat stand and triggers on mesh heads on a real kit. Plays great, but wasn't getting good results in the computer, especially with snare flams, ghost notes and such. Spent so much time editing and adding to it that I just gave up on the idea. Because midi is literally incapable of reproducing what you play. You have to record audio. i recently was doing a “fast” project for a friend that I played a piano—figured Id use midi so i could just piece together idea fast —octave trills....weird AF. Of course I was taking an audio backup. Flip to that-audio, the trill was as I played it. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Feb 17, 2021 20:34:06 GMT -6
I might have to check SD3 out after all of this. Wasn't a fan of the sample sounds they put up when it came out, but if it's working this well for you guys playing live -> MIDI, that would be cool. The setup I tried a few years ago is a Roland TD-20 brain, triggered hi-hat stand and triggers on mesh heads on a real kit. Plays great, but wasn't getting good results in the computer, especially with snare flams, ghost notes and such. Spent so much time editing and adding to it that I just gave up on the idea. Because midi is literally incapable of reproducing what you play. You have to record audio. i recently was doing a “fast” project for a friend that I played a piano—figured Id use midi so i could just piece together idea fast —octave trills....weird AF. Of course I was taking an audio backup. Flip to that-audio, the trill was as I played it. Well, yeah, 100% for sure. That's my first choice and when we need live drums, I track them at my friend's studio because he's got the room and gear for them. Thinking you're right on the MIDI though. Fortunately, most of what we've been liking has been my TR-707 with samples on top. Nothing but good stuff happening. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Feb 17, 2021 21:01:31 GMT -6
I just hire drumsound and let him play whatever he feels like. It works pretty good for me.  I do use EZ drummer 2 for helping with ideas. And the Nashville EZX does have a lot of great, simple beats. I also have a pretty extensive loop library fro Beta Monkey that is pretty cool for using as a “click” too. |
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Post by ragan on Feb 17, 2021 21:20:34 GMT -6
MIDI is plenty capable of translating a performance. I know some people have strong pet opinions of it, which is of course fine, but I don’t have any issues with it. It’s effin’ fantastic. MIDI can go tighter or sloppier than I play, by a wide margin in each direction. The limits are my own playing abilities and the gear doing the encoding. I use a Roland TD-25KV and it’s more than up to the task.
I use the TD-25 preset in SD3 and it’s 95% there with no editing. Add in the velocity shaping you can do on a per drum basis in SD3 (if you want/need) and the sky is the limit. Having tracked live drums for the last 20 years, THAT is much more limiting. It’s awesome, of course, but in terms of getting what you want on tape, MIDI is infinitely more flexible.
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Post by popmann on Feb 17, 2021 22:35:02 GMT -6
To clarify, Bat, I meant the audio output of the digital drum sampler--be that software or hardware, gets recorded, not "record real drums". There's a lot of OTHER factors involved with THAT...there is 1005 explainable reason why it was fine for you when you PLAYED it...but, the MIDI recording required editing and quantizing around rolls and ghost notes. Record the audio AS you play it...you never have that issue again.
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Post by ragan on Feb 17, 2021 22:45:39 GMT -6
To clarify, Bat, I meant the audio output of the digital drum sampler--be that software or hardware, gets recorded, not "record real drums". There's a lot of OTHER factors involved with THAT...there is 1005 explainable reason why it was fine for you when you PLAYED it...but, the MIDI recording required editing and quantizing around rolls and ghost notes. Record the audio AS you play it...you never have that issue again. I know you've expressed this before, Jaime. I think you've even used a second computer just to run the drum software and printed the audio outputs to the main tracking machine. I don't get it. If you're monitoring something like SD3, how is it 'fine' when you're monitoring/performing but not 'fine' when you play it back? You're already hearing the result of your performance being quantized into MIDI data as you monitor 'live'. What's the intended benefit of cutting yourself off from editing anything after the fact? Whatever perceived quantization damage there is has already happened before it hits your cans as you track. Or maybe you mean something else and I'm misunderstanding. |
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Post by drumsound on Feb 17, 2021 22:57:45 GMT -6
I just hire drumsound and let him play whatever he feels like. It works pretty good for me. I do use EZ drummer 2 for helping with ideas. And the Nashville EZX does have a lot of great, simple beats. I also have a pretty extensive loop library fro Beta Monkey that is pretty cool for using as a “click” too. Thanks, brotherman! Playing your tracks is a blast. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Feb 17, 2021 23:02:10 GMT -6
To clarify, Bat, I meant the audio output of the digital drum sampler--be that software or hardware, gets recorded, not "record real drums". There's a lot of OTHER factors involved with THAT...there is 1005 explainable reason why it was fine for you when you PLAYED it...but, the MIDI recording required editing and quantizing around rolls and ghost notes. Record the audio AS you play it...you never have that issue again. I should add that I'm not 100% sure the triggers were doing their thing correctly. Or, that I set them up correctly. It was a process that was fun for straight beats but any nuances got lost fast. Should also add that I wasn't recording the TD-20. I was just using it for the MIDI signals, playing Addictive Drums. So there are a LOT of factors that were at play and any one of them I could have easily screwed up. I think I owned SD2 over a decade ago? It had that feature where it would generate individual wav files for the mics? Pretty damn cool and I got some great results from that back then. I digress. Back to the topic. |
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