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Post by Chad on Sept 21, 2020 11:03:55 GMT -6
Building a hybrid setup with 30 channels of outboard EQ's and 23 channels of compressors plus two summing mixers in series (RND 5059 + Heritage Audio MCM32).
I wasted far too much money & time attempting to wrangle "that sound in my head" out of plugins & DAWs with a 100% ITB process. That frustration I experienced was probably the #1 reason I set aside my project studio for well over a decade. I kept writing music during that period, but abandoned recording altogether. The process was too frustrating.
I've only done test mixes for the past couple of years in which I've been building my studio with outboard gear, but... What little I've done has been night & day so far.
In the old days of 100% ITB mixing/mastering, I'd go out to my car, and my mix was horrible. Recently (before we moved to a new house in the Spring), I was able to nail a mix and have something I was happy with in my car right out of the gate and with only some minor "tweaks" for artistic purposes, rather than "trouble-shooting" and "hair-pulling" and questioning my ability to even produce anything of value whatsoever.
PS: I know of people who can use plugins and 100% ITB setups and do AMAZING mixes. What I'm saying is... For some reason, that never worked for me, and I'm so grateful I've finally found a way to work that fits the way I am "wired". (Pun intended.)
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Post by drbill on Sept 21, 2020 12:10:35 GMT -6
Building a hybrid setup... Hybrid = Magic Heaven!!!! <<thumbsup>>
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 21, 2020 13:49:08 GMT -6
Very hard to say.. For overall mix improvements, probably stepping up to my first pair of real professional monitors after using random cheapies and regular speakers for years. For workflow and general abilities, would be Reaper because before that I used both hardware recorders and random softwares with no real overall DAW capabilities. Reaper is an incredible deal! We went from Nuendo to Reaper and never looked back.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 21, 2020 14:04:45 GMT -6
Room treatment, Focal monitors, Topping DAC, Drawmer MC2.1, Emotiva amp, are the ears of the setup. Puts the demons of worry and fatigue to bed.
The biggest "recent" one has been the Wolfbox DI box. Inspires me to play, wakes up the muse.
And a thousand micro revelations along the way. I guess those world opening gear moments seem to happen pretty often, when I look back. Usually in the sense of awakening some new workflow or style of expression. For example moving to a completely different building or recording space. Or just catching onto why everyone loves limiters, fuzz pedals, or something.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Sept 21, 2020 17:13:32 GMT -6
Going back to RME with the 802. Never have to worry about latency or buffer sizes rock solid in the driver department. Truly set and forget.
The next biggest this i have done is gear reduction to.. 8 pres (neve,tabfunken,jlm,API) and 3 compressors(1176,SSL,dbx160vu).
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 21, 2020 19:49:53 GMT -6
Going back to RME with the 802. Never have to worry about latency or buffer sizes rock solid in the driver department. Truly set and forget. The next biggest this i have done is gear reduction to.. 8 pres (neve,tabfunken,jlm,API) and 3 compressors(1176,SSL,dbx160vu). 8 pres is not enough to track a full band. Not with most people's drum methods. Even with my fairly minimalist drum technique, 8 channels would only leave me 3 open for other things - without room mics. And 8 pres of 4 types means only 2 of each type - not nearly enough; you at least need to have all the same type on every channel of the kit.
In another thread we've been discussing the concept of "glue" - to achieve glue you should have the same preamps on most, if not all, channels. Tape helps, but without some consistency of preamps it's not nearly enough. I have 2x 4 channel boutique CRS-IND 4412 outboard preamps (hand made by Carl Johnson) and 32 preamps in the board. I also have a Neve copy preamp that usually lives in my live guitar rig and an A-Designs Ventura (Quad-8 derived) channel strip that I can patch in if need be. I could use a few more, especially a couple tube preamps for ribbon mics, but am not in a rush, I'm pretty well covered. I think I've got about 16 channels of working compression, plus a couple or three waiting for me to get up off my ass and put them on the bench - 4 Allison Gain Brains, one Spectra-Sonics (NOT the software company) 610 (could definitely use another), 2 different types of ADR SCAMP (2 FET, 2 VCA), a Daking FET III, an old ART opto that is the only prosumer comp I have left, a dbx 160X that lives in my guitar rig most of the time, and a couple more that slip my mind at the moment. What I DON'T have is many of the common types that everybody and their dog run out and buy. I could use a pair of LA2As and a couple of 1176s, maybe a dbx 165A, but again, I'm in no hurry. Also have various other SCAMP modules and a couple of Kepexs. Diversity is far more important in comps than in pres. a dbx 160VU would be nice, but not essential - I tend to use ears, not meters.
I figure it's about equivalent to a decent demo studio of the '80s or early '90s.
I find it difficult to understand why anyone would want to minimalize unless they don't work with others.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Sept 21, 2020 20:15:28 GMT -6
Going back to RME with the 802. Never have to worry about latency or buffer sizes rock solid in the driver department. Truly set and forget. The next biggest this i have done is gear reduction to.. 8 pres (neve,tabfunken,jlm,API) and 3 compressors(1176,SSL,dbx160vu). 8 pres is not enough to track a full band. Not with most people's drum methods. Even with my fairly minimalist drum technique, 8 channels would only leave me 3 open for other things - without room mics. And 8 pres of 4 types means only 2 of each type - not nearly enough; you at least need to have all the same type on every channel of the kit.
In another thread we've been discussing the concept of "glue" - to achieve glue you should have the same preamps on most, if not all, channels. Tape helps, but without some consistency of preamps it's not nearly enough. I have 2x 4 channel boutique CRS-IND 4412 outboard preamps (hand made by Carl Johnson) and 32 preamps in the board. I also have a Neve copy preamp that usually lives in my live guitar rig and an A-Designs Ventura (Quad-8 derived) channel strip that I can patch in if need be. I could use a few more, especially a couple tube preamps for ribbon mics, but am not in a rush, I'm pretty well covered. I think I've got about 16 channels of working compression, plus a couple or three waiting for me to get up off my ass and put them on the bench - 4 Allison Gain Brains, one Spectra-Sonics (NOT the software company) 610 (could definitely use another), 2 different types of ADR SCAMP (2 FET, 2 VCA), a Daking FET III, an old ART opto that is the only prosumer comp I have left, a dbx 160X that lives in my guitar rig most of the time, and a couple more that slip my mind at the moment. What I DON'T have is many of the common types that everybody and their dog run out and buy. I could use a pair of LA2As and a couple of 1176s, maybe a dbx 165A, but again, I'm in no hurry. Also have various other SCAMP modules and a couple of Kepexs. Diversity is far more important in comps than in pres. a dbx 160VU would be nice, but not essential - I tend to use ears, not meters.
I figure it's about equivalent to a decent demo studio of the '80s or early '90s.
I find it difficult to understand why anyone would want to minimalize unless they don't work with others.
I have a pretty busy job outside of audio so i just have a home studio. My time with doing audio is pretty minimal so streamlining the way i work is fairly important to actually getting things done. I don't have the capacity to record a whole band where i am and i'm not sure that I want to with the skill level of most bands around. Stereo pairs of mic pres is fine for what I am recording... acoustic/electric/bass guitars, piano, vocals, percussion, occasional brass or woodwind. When i need to record drums or do live tracking of a whole band I go to a real studio.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 21, 2020 21:23:36 GMT -6
The only things I have consistently used for many years that felt like game changers were my first Gates SA-70's, the Dolby 740, and the Samar MF-65's. Lots of other stuff has been around here forever and had long periods of constant usage, but most has been subbed out for something else along the way, only sometimes returned to. Lots of things I'd have called game changers at certain points, that I no longer own.
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Post by mcirish on Sept 22, 2020 8:27:30 GMT -6
Not taking into account Nuendo (or any other DAW) I'd say the entire monitoring chain has been the thing that has evolved over the years but is now at the point that when I make a mix decision, I don't have to second guess with a run to the car to hear it. In order: 1) Acoustic panels of OC703 2) Sonarworks 3) Dynaudio LYD48 4) Dangerous Monitor ST
They are the parts that make the whole. Acoustic treatment is always going to be the most important if you mix on speakers. But, my mixes made a huge jump in quality when I picked up Sonarworks last year. Yes, I know it does induce some phase shift or possible smearing but when I get a mix where I think it should be, it doesn't need to be fixed in mastering anymore. I finished an album mix project right before I got Sonarworks. I had to do a few mix modifications per the mastering engineer. I never could dial in the the low/mid exactly right. I was hoping it would be fine but then the matering guy would say, cut 3db at 80hz. In my studio, that sounded like the wrong move, but I did what he said and it was correct. After that, I bought Sonarworks and calibrated the room as best as possible with making the measurements, moving speakers, do more measurements... etc. Sent the next two mixes to the mastering guy and he said he didn't have to do any EQ; just some level adjustments to get it competitive. That's a huge win.
OK, that was long winded..
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Post by ChaseUTB on Sept 22, 2020 8:56:27 GMT -6
1.) Acoustic Treatment - rock wool Traps & 703 panels 2.) Barefoot Sound Footprint 01 - calibrated w / pink noise, must for any monitor imo 3.) Sound Anchor FP01 stands
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 22, 2020 9:46:40 GMT -6
1.) Acoustic Treatment - rock wool Traps & 703 panels 2.) Barefoot Sound Footprint 01 - calibrated w / pink noise, must for any monitor imo 3.) Sound Anchor FP01 stands Glad you’re back
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 10:09:39 GMT -6
Plugin Doctor is helping me pair down my plugs and everything sounds better. Right now I’m 95% Tokyo Dawn, Klanghelm, and Reaper linear processing plugs.
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Post by schmalzy on Sept 23, 2020 0:11:31 GMT -6
Softube's Console1.
I get to use ears only for more decisions and look/read/use the mouse for fewer decisions.
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Post by stormymondays on Sept 23, 2020 2:22:33 GMT -6
Softube's Console1. I get to use ears only for more decisions and look/read/use the mouse for fewer decisions. Actually I’m going to change my reply to this too. There was a definite “before and after” with Console 1.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Sept 23, 2020 6:51:22 GMT -6
1.) Acoustic Treatment - rock wool Traps & 703 panels 2.) Barefoot Sound Footprint 01 - calibrated w / pink noise, must for any monitor imo 3.) Sound Anchor FP01 stands Glad you’re back Thank you! Lots of wonderful ppl and info on this forum!
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Post by mitchkricun on Sept 23, 2020 9:42:34 GMT -6
In addition to Sonarworks, putting an acoustical “cloud” over the mix position. I had a crap load of Real Traps and GIK traps in my room with decent results, but when I put up the cloud, I was shocked at how much tighter things got.
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rpc
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by rpc on Sept 23, 2020 12:07:53 GMT -6
Well, I'm an on-location guy, so "studio" is a misnomer, but a Sound Devices Mixpre-6 changed my life. It doesn't sound quite as good as the ULN-8 I was using before, but the sheer ease of throwing my gear in a backpack, taking the train downtown, and making world-class chamber music recordings can't be beat. Not having to find an outlet (and worry about the power coming from it) is also a plus!
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Post by Guitar on Sept 23, 2020 13:14:09 GMT -6
Well, I'm an on-location guy, so "studio" is a misnomer, but a Sound Devices Mixpre-6 changed my life. It doesn't sound quite as good as the ULN-8 I was using before, but the sheer ease of throwing my gear in a backpack, taking the train downtown, and making world-class chamber music recordings can't be beat. Not having to find an outlet (and worry about the power coming from it) is also a plus! I agree MixPre 6 opened doors for me, literally, and it sounds wonderful and is so functional and well designed. All I could really ask for, more, is a Mix Pre 10 I guess. Someday maybe.
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Post by soundintheround on Sept 23, 2020 16:37:38 GMT -6
I’d agree with you John.... Sonarworks (and some decent monitors) game changer for me.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 23, 2020 21:44:21 GMT -6
If I had to pick one thing, I'd have to say the UAD Apollo. It's been rock solid since 2012, and does what they say it does. I had zero gear when I bought it, and then I had a studio in a box. I made my recent album with it. But assuming you have your interface worked out, I've had two game changers, the first was the Avantone Abbey 3 way monitors. The difference between the Avantone's and the Adam Audio A7X and a few other mid priced monitors was transparency compared to hash. I could finally listen to the mix and not the speakers. I had to sell them for medical bills . I'm sure the Barefoot's and ATC's have the same effect, maybe even more so. Game changer 2, higher end mics. For my recent album, "What the Heart Only Knows" I borrowed 2 Neumann KM84's and used the Blackspade UM17R, Soyuz 0-17, Soyuz 0-19 FET, Soyuz 0-13 FET SDC, and then the Chandler REDD and the Stam SA67 on newer tracks yet to be released. My motto is "mics first". I had a proper home studio in the mid 80's, and used a 1980 Neumann U87 on everything, every day. Made over one hundred radio and TV commercials, music for TV shows, and my own songwriting projects, and it always sounded good, on anything. The easiest way to sound professional is to get a great mic. The rest is up to you.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 23, 2020 23:10:51 GMT -6
Renting an actual studio space.
I've got a 14x14 control room, 20x30 live room, and 3 iso booths. Amazing what this setup will do for results and workflow improvements. I can track guitar, bass, and drums as the same time, while keeping everything isolated. By far the biggest game changer.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 24, 2020 7:47:39 GMT -6
That's a distant dream of mine Jesse. Good luck with that!
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Sept 24, 2020 8:21:13 GMT -6
Grace M 905 for me. Amazing DA solution.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Sept 24, 2020 8:27:04 GMT -6
I’d have to say the V Drums/SD3 setup. As a dude that just records his own music because he wants to, drums have always been a challenge. I love mic’ing/using acoustic drums and I’ve lugged them all over this state to various rooms and scenarios to get something cool tracked. But I’m in school and have two little kids. Those hours of mic’ing/lugging/being super loud don’t exist anymore. And when I’m done with school I’ll be working as an EE. Not really gonna have that time then either. The fact that I can take a break from studying and be tracking drums in 30 seconds, seamlessly punching into whatever track I’ve been working on, getting my actual drumming tracked, silently, is mind blowing. It would be a revelation for me even if the sonics were just passable. The fact that they’re the best drum sounds I’ve ever gotten make it absolutely amazing. Which kit version did you go with, Ragan?
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Post by ragan on Sept 24, 2020 9:02:16 GMT -6
I’d have to say the V Drums/SD3 setup. As a dude that just records his own music because he wants to, drums have always been a challenge. I love mic’ing/using acoustic drums and I’ve lugged them all over this state to various rooms and scenarios to get something cool tracked. But I’m in school and have two little kids. Those hours of mic’ing/lugging/being super loud don’t exist anymore. And when I’m done with school I’ll be working as an EE. Not really gonna have that time then either. The fact that I can take a break from studying and be tracking drums in 30 seconds, seamlessly punching into whatever track I’ve been working on, getting my actual drumming tracked, silently, is mind blowing. It would be a revelation for me even if the sonics were just passable. The fact that they’re the best drum sounds I’ve ever gotten make it absolutely amazing. Which kit version did you go with, Ragan? I have the TD-25KV, Herbie.
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