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Post by Ward on May 15, 2020 11:50:46 GMT -6
You know whats impossible to find?
A used Cloud Microphone. 44, 44a JRS34 or JRS34a
That tells me something.
Anyone using these and have a report to share? I'm halfway between getting a Tul or a Cloud. 97 mics isn't enough.
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Post by Vincent R. on May 15, 2020 12:37:01 GMT -6
Curious myself.
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Post by EmRR on May 15, 2020 12:39:14 GMT -6
Sometimes it means they haven't sold that many.
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Post by drbill on May 15, 2020 13:45:59 GMT -6
Sometimes it means they haven't sold that many. haha! That's exactly what I was thinking.... I'm a gnat's hair from buying a real 44bx. The only thing holding me back is the current status of the worldwide economy, which I feel is about ready to take a REAL adjustment.
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Post by teejay on May 15, 2020 13:58:59 GMT -6
You can't say "enough" until you've hit three figures.
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Post by tasteliketape on May 15, 2020 13:59:11 GMT -6
Just a suggestion but you might check out the Stager Sr1a .
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Post by chessparov on May 15, 2020 14:00:19 GMT -6
Dr. Bill, how do you like the AEA's in comparison, to an RCA?
I "fell in love" with one of Wes' 44's first, so that initial impression, left me biased towards the AEA line. But I'd really need to spend time shooting out AEA vs. Cloud, to have a more intelligent comparison.
The little time I spent singing/trying the Clouds, convinced me they were of a very high quality too. Not a 44, but I also love the sound of the Sontronics Sigma 2. That's my "budget alternative". Chris
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Post by drbill on May 15, 2020 14:30:32 GMT -6
Dr. Bill, how do you like the AEA's in comparison, to an RCA? I "fell in love" with one of Wes' 44's first, so that initial impression, left me biased towards the AEA line. But I'd really need to spend time shooting out AEA vs. Cloud, to have a more intelligent comparison. The little time I spent singing/trying the Clouds, convinced me they were of a very high quality too. Not a 44, but I also love the sound of the Sontronics Sigma 2. That's my "budget alternative". Chris A trusted friend who has close ties to AEA told me to buy the RCA. Said "no comparison". Don't know myself as I have not tried the AEA 44, but I trust my friend who has close access to both the AEA's and dozens of 44's in a private collection.
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Post by Ward on May 15, 2020 15:11:08 GMT -6
Dr. Bill, how do you like the AEA's in comparison, to an RCA? I "fell in love" with one of Wes' 44's first, so that initial impression, left me biased towards the AEA line. But I'd really need to spend time shooting out AEA vs. Cloud, to have a more intelligent comparison. The little time I spent singing/trying the Clouds, convinced me they were of a very high quality too. Not a 44, but I also love the sound of the Sontronics Sigma 2. That's my "budget alternative". Chris A trusted friend who has close ties to AEA told me to buy the RCA. Said "no comparison". Don't know myself as I have not tried the AEA 44, but I trust my friend who has close access to both the AEA's and dozens of 44's in a private collection. That 44 you liked on my intagram? It was made whole by Wes Dooley. Whether or not the AEA is every bit an old RCA isn't a question, it isn't. But I'll vouch for Mr Dooley's incredible talent for making a near 80 year old microphone sound like it's come back on steroids!! I note the advice of several folks here . . . I have to say, when I 'auditioned' them at January NAMM, I preferred the passive JRS34 over their other mics, As for Stager? The 2 is a FREAKING GEM!
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Post by aremos on May 15, 2020 15:19:57 GMT -6
Dr. Bill, how do you like the AEA's in comparison, to an RCA? I "fell in love" with one of Wes' 44's first, so that initial impression, left me biased towards the AEA line. But I'd really need to spend time shooting out AEA vs. Cloud, to have a more intelligent comparison. The little time I spent singing/trying the Clouds, convinced me they were of a very high quality too. Not a 44, but I also love the sound of the Sontronics Sigma 2. That's my "budget alternative". Chris A trusted friend who has close ties to AEA told me to buy the RCA. Said "no comparison". Don't know myself as I have not tried the AEA 44, but I trust my friend who has close access to both the AEA's and dozens of 44's in a private collection. And here I was, ALL this time, thinking they were not even clones but replicas
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Post by hadaja on May 15, 2020 15:30:21 GMT -6
So yes i own a cloud 44a . Also had it against my 44bx. And i also have the stager sr1a. I have not owned a AEA 44c yet but thought whst the heck i msy as well eventually get one. I have used one for a brief moment in a noisy environment. What did you want to know.? Can write a brief experience with them uf you like later todsy.
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Post by Ward on May 15, 2020 15:34:41 GMT -6
So yes i own a cloud 44a . Also had it against my 44bx. And i also have the stager sr1a. I have not owned a AEA 44c yet but thought whst the heck i msy as well eventually get one. I have used one for a brief moment in a noisy environment. What did you want to know.? Can write a brief experience with them uf you like later todsy. Please do! Write the experience. Use your experienced and educated ears to write the review for you. I'll ask questions! And thanks for replying!
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Post by nobtwiddler on May 15, 2020 15:43:37 GMT -6
I did a demo for Cloud a few years ago at my place. Using 4 x of their (44) mics to record a drum kit on an alt / rock song. If I remember correctly, 3 x were passive, and one, (the room) was active. Kick, a little above the rim, about a foot away, tilted slightly down facing the kick... Snare, between the snare & hi hat aimed at the snare, at snare height. Floor tom, facing across the tom, looking at the snare.. And room, just a few feet away from the kit. (6ft) compressed!
Video HAS BEEN pulled because at the time it was Wave Distribution (Gil Griffith) who paid for the sessions and video shoot, then for whatever reason, Cloud decided to go with another distributor ..SO Wave pulled the vid, rightfully so.
Ok, so that said, the mics were great, did exactly what you'd expect a 44 type ribbon to do, and they were half the price of originals. A very, very, good deal!
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Post by drbill on May 15, 2020 17:08:05 GMT -6
A trusted friend who has close ties to AEA told me to buy the RCA. Said "no comparison". Don't know myself as I have not tried the AEA 44, but I trust my friend who has close access to both the AEA's and dozens of 44's in a private collection. And here I was, ALL this time, thinking they were not even clones but replicas honestly, I have no idea. One man's "no comparison" is another man's "I think I can tell a difference....." one thing is for sure, the RCA will go up in value, and it's guaranteed to have a patina mojo for days...
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Post by EmRR on May 15, 2020 17:25:38 GMT -6
There's certainly people who prefer their AEA over the RCA's they've used. And vice versa. Too many factors in any old RCA to call anything apples to apples. Like drbill's U67 experience, take any dozen and there will be standouts and stinkers. And how many people have heard enough to know the difference.
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Post by chessparov on May 15, 2020 18:27:53 GMT -6
Hi Ward. I never go on Instagram, but if you have a clip you can share with us, feel free. Honestly, before I'd ever shell out the money for an AEA vs. Cloud vs. Stager... I'd shoot them out in person for a while, somewhere like VK. The good news (for me) is that I might just be perfectly happy, with the Sontronics Sigma 2 someday. At "only" $1150 street. FWIW my other shootout comparison, in this $1200 or less ribbon range vs. the Sigma 2, would have to be the AEA R84. I'm too chicken to mess around with a 4038! The Sigma 2 ribbon (or AEA R84) is definitely NOT the ideal vocal mic, for Modern Pop and R&B/Hip Hop/Rap. Sorry to disappoint you John Eppstein! (I know how much he loves that music ) Chris P.S. IMHO yes the RCA 44, is an excellent investment. Almost as good as a 414 B-ULS! (kidding kidding)
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Post by hadaja on May 15, 2020 19:15:48 GMT -6
Just refining my response, too busy to write an large response to the Cloud thread today, will get back to that shortly. But ther eis a larger conversation about what room and what sources you want to use it on. RCA 44bx loves big rooms, I didnt have a big room. Cloud works better in small room, Have not really gotten back to the Stager even though I have owned it for over 2x years. The bottom on that is just huge. But I will say nothing beats a RCA44bx. The AEA 44CE did not have the sweetness of my RCA 44bx. Plus the whole Alnico VS Neo magnets plays a big role in the sound. It's a bit like the changing pickups in guitars do you want Cobolt, Neo,Alnico, etc. All reproduce the sound with a different signature. When you talk about the 5-10% difference in $2K mics VS $4K+ mics its the same with things like ribbon thickness, ribbon length and even ribbon construction like the Shure KSM313 (which I own and love). SO with the ribbons and the different magnet materials there are very small noticeable differences in sound. To briefly sum up (and this is generally speaking), I find a lot of NEo magnets will produce a more modern sound think Stager SR2N, Samar AL95,some AEa stuff, Extinct Audio, Cloud. Modern sound meaning extended frequency range over the older stuff. Less extended bass low end and a clearer sound. Alnico magnets (which loose there Gauss factor over time, but dont get me started there) like RCA 44BX, Melodium 42B, Reslo, a lot of other older RCA (extremely impressed with KB2 series), AEA 44 series, Stager SR1A etc have this thick weighty low end (way too big and messy in a small room) but dont have the extended high end. Dont get me wrong you can still hear the highs but they dont capture the LDC type highs which can tend to make them sound more natural. Anyway I did not want to spend too much time onthis as I am suppose to be looking after the son today whilst the wife is working so I will get back to this if you have any questions. RCA 44bx has this massive low end. Nice sweetness I have yet tp find on another ribbon mic. Melodium 42b comes close to the sweetness but not quiet there. Stager SR1a a more low end - ridiculous overpowering for small room. I need to spend more time with that one. Cloud 44a controlled low end good. Very quiet, niuce touch with the Music. Voice slector which seems more then a simple EQ switch - maybe tilt eq happening here. It does have good high end and still sounds natural. Very workable in small room. But dont exclude the Shure KSM313 it is like a mini controlled version of the RCA 44BX. I need to find where I have put that mic as I have been in midst of moving studio gear for the last 12 months. Hope this all makes sense as I am not going back to check spelling and grammar. I will be getting another RCA 44bx at some stage. Was it Dr Bill that mentioned he had a contact who was clearing off some 44bx's shortly? Grab one of those if that is the case.
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Post by drbill on May 15, 2020 20:13:17 GMT -6
Was it Dr Bill that mentioned he had a contact who was clearing off some 44bx's shortly? Grab one of those if that is the case. yes, that was me. A chance to cherry pick from a couple dozen. Thanks for the great description above. ^^^
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Post by aremos on May 15, 2020 20:49:03 GMT -6
Chris P.S. IMHO yes the RCA 44, is an excellent investment. Almost as good as a 414 B-ULS! (kidding kidding) Nothing to kid about. I love 414's! The EB was the first mic I ever sang into in a recording studio & the B-ULS was the first mic I ever bought. I'll take the B-ULS over an 87 any day. After that (well, maybe the TL's) AKG "stopped" making good 414's.
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Post by damoongo on May 15, 2020 21:13:31 GMT -6
I have a couple RCA 44bx's here. A few years ago a client brought in an AEA 44 version, freshly back from a tune up with Wes. It sounded great but not quite as "larger than life" as the RCA's. But the noise floor on the AEA was lower than mine. In fact it had a very healthy signal to noise ratio. It inspired me to delve into refurbing mine a bit. Wes at AEA was kind enough to sell me some NOS RCA ribbons and the cross shaped puff guard for one of mine. I cleaned them up, twisted some leads, and re ribboned and they are now beautifully quiet. All the mojo, with amazingly low noise floor and nice frequency response. I think a lot of peoples impressions of 44's (including mine own impressions) were based on specimens in less than ideal condition.
Anyway, I'd pick my RCA's over the AEA's. Especially now.
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Post by chessparov on May 15, 2020 22:44:05 GMT -6
Partly due to the current "situtation". Am expecting any eventual ribbon to be used in a smaller room/Studio. So thanks Hadaja, regarding the small room/Cloud ribbon insight.
General Active vs. Passive thoughts anyone? Thanks,Chris
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Post by hadaja on May 15, 2020 23:02:14 GMT -6
So the active ribbons have a jfet amp in them from memory. No big deal if you have a quality preamp it makes no difference if its passive. Hang on does the jfet amp change the ohms it sees coming in? Maybe the passive ones will react more to changes in impedance mode on some preamps which is also a great option for adjusting an cheating "EQ" type setting. But if you have an vintage type Ribbon you going to introduce noise if you use a low gain low quality preamp and getting a Triton FEThead or Cloudlifter or in Chris's case the "Launcher" will prove to be useful.
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Post by EmRR on May 16, 2020 9:12:57 GMT -6
So the active ribbons have a jfet amp in them from memory. No big deal if you have a quality preamp it makes no difference if its passive. Hang on does the jfet amp change the ohms it sees coming in? Maybe the passive ones will react more to changes in impedance mode on some preamps which is also a great option for adjusting an cheating "EQ" type setting. Exactly, an active output on a ribbon essentially blocks any interaction from preamp input Z with respect to frequency, for better or worse. If you are chasing some vintage tones and/or like experimenting with varying preamp EQ contributions to a ribbon, it's not gonna happen with the active output. But if you have an vintage type Ribbon you going to introduce noise if you use a low gain low quality preamp and getting a Triton FEThead or Cloudlifter or in Chris's case the "Launcher" will prove to be useful. And any of those devices block the same interactions.
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Post by jamiesego on May 16, 2020 10:03:56 GMT -6
It’s strange to me that a company would go to great lengths to recreate the look of vintage RCA mics and then use different magnets. In guitar world people often mention Alnico speakers and pickups having some built in compression. I wonder if that’s the case with ribbon mics.
Anyone know what Coles are using?
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Post by chessparov on May 16, 2020 10:22:51 GMT -6
Fortunately, the Soyuz Launcher has an excellent tonality, so I'm confident it'll be fine on a ribbon. Nice complement to 1073/API IMHO. Chris
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