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Post by mrholmes on Apr 18, 2020 13:17:45 GMT -6
How do you decide in removing resonances wolf tones by instruments?
Resonances are so obvious with one of my acoustics it made me revisiting files/mixes which were taken in pro places, with some of my more expensive guitars as well as some which my guitar store gave me for tracking.
I can't find a single acoustic guitar without resonances.
On the more expensive ones they may sound nicer that's it. Seems to be pretty much the same case as with room acoustics - you can't have it perfect.
Removing resonances often removes the character of the instrument as well.
Very often I remove them switch on and of the EQ and I decide to go with the resonances.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 18, 2020 13:27:21 GMT -6
I’d be careful with this, presuming you have captured things well, no boominess?
I’d go the opposite way and just get guitars with different bought widths, which naturally controls their resonance?
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 18, 2020 13:30:17 GMT -6
I’d be careful with this, presuming you have captured things well, no boominess? I’d go the opposite way and just get guitars with different bought widths, which naturally controls their resonance?
Remember I am not a native speaker like you ... meaning???
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 18, 2020 13:39:17 GMT -6
Sorry:, the width of the guitar: dreadnought is a large bought, a parlour guitar is small ?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 18, 2020 13:46:47 GMT -6
Guitars that sound great and guitars that record great are often two different things.
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Post by m03 on Apr 18, 2020 14:22:17 GMT -6
I’d be careful with this, presuming you have captured things well, no boominess? I’d go the opposite way and just get guitars with different bought widths, which naturally controls their resonance?
Remember I am not a native speaker like you ... meaning???
I think he means "bout", not "bought".
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 18, 2020 14:54:39 GMT -6
Mobile phone auto correct !
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Post by rowmat on Apr 18, 2020 18:06:07 GMT -6
How do you decide in removing resonances wolf tones by instruments?
Resonances are so obvious with one of my acoustics it made me revisiting files/mixes which were taken in pro places, with some of my more expensive guitars as well as some which my guitar store gave me for tracking.
I can't find a single acoustic guitar without resonances.
On the more expensive ones they may sound nicer that's it. Seems to be pretty much the same case as with room acoustics - you can't have it perfect.
Removing resonances often removes the character of the instrument as well.
Very often I remove them switch on and of the EQ and I decide to go with the resonances. The acoustic guitars that had the least resonances especially in the low-mids were the original Ovations with the molded fiberglass bodies. IMO they were also amongst the worst sounding acoustic guitars ever made. Designed by aerospace engineers.
Bland and lacking in warmth and character. Made popular by the likes of Glenn Campbell who was a great guitarist but I could never stand his sound when using Ovations.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Apr 18, 2020 19:11:34 GMT -6
I hear you. I have this martin that i need to put a narrow multiband in the lower mids most times i record with it without a capo. Apart from that one resonance is sounds beautiful.
Martins comment is so true.
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 19, 2020 8:40:47 GMT -6
I just use super tight Notching filters and lower it.
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Post by svart on Apr 19, 2020 9:00:41 GMT -6
Guitars that sound great and guitars that record great are often two different things. I purposely bought a guitar that sounds almost too thin, for this purpose. When you mic it up, it doesn't have strong proximity effect issues and a lot less boomy anti-nodes.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 19, 2020 9:03:04 GMT -6
I've found smaller guitars, like an 000 size record nicely. My Martin D-41 was the best sounding guitar I've ever heard, but a bit too boomy in a track.
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 19, 2020 12:09:58 GMT -6
Guitars that sound great and guitars that record great are often two different things. I purposely bought a guitar that sounds almost too thin, for this purpose. When you mic it up, it doesn't have strong proximity effect issues and a lot less boomy anti-nodes.
Interesting I saw German hired-guns often using cheap Yamaha's around 400-500 bucks.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 19, 2020 12:42:13 GMT -6
Yes, it's about fitting in not standing out. Perhaps if a song was mainly acoustic and a vocal a fine dreadnaught would be the best choice, but in songs with lots of tracks, a slightly flatter more even guitar can often do a better job. I prefer a Martin to a Gibson, but their J45 records nicely because it has a softer smaller sound.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 19, 2020 13:11:06 GMT -6
Those old Gibson LG-2 guitars record wonderfully as well. Wish I had picked one up when everybody thought they were junk about 10-15 years ago.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 19, 2020 13:44:50 GMT -6
Just to resonate with Adam, tight, high Q notch filters at specific frequencies are your friend in the mix window. I often use Waves Q10 or T Racks Equal for this kind of thing.
Not just guitars, either, but nearly any instrument could need "notching" to get rid of annoying prominent frequencies.
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Post by Ward on Apr 19, 2020 14:10:21 GMT -6
Variable depth notch filters? Also, miking above the sweet spot and on an angle with a Neumann KM84 that doesn't exaggerate the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 14:32:16 GMT -6
I don’t like to notch it out totally. It’s part of the sound of the guitar. Sometimes not at all unless it creates room for other instruments. Consider a few db cut at most with surgical eq or a single db or two with a wider but still somewhat natural eq. Whatever solves your problem, fits it in the mix, and still sounds natural. Use your ears not your eyes. As for not sounding like the original raw track, who cares but hear it with the other instruments too, not just soloed. A guitar that sounds great irl might not sound great recorded or great live in a band when not being filtered by the brain’s visual cortex or not having to cut through the stage noise. A Gibson might sound better irl but a Fender better on the record. So many resonant wood guitars now are totally destroyed on records when another guitar would’ve been better in the first place or the rest of the sound should’ve been tailored around it if it was the primary voice.
PS, sometimes just a compressor or soft limiter catching the muddying resonance can be awesome. Multibands rule at this when nothing else works. Great weapon of last resort when not even an 1176 or a limiter are working.
For midrange resonances that aren’t muddying, often they might look awful or sound bad on their own soloed but cause the guitars to cut through a dense mix. Think many acoustics and strats. Mercyful Fate - Don’t Break the Oath has the strats cut through the speaker. Modern mixers with smart ai resonance killing eqs or mixing based on seeing wave forms would never get that effect.
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Post by reddirt on Apr 19, 2020 16:48:50 GMT -6
Distance and mic choice/placement in the first instance then dynamic eq at mix time are my tools. And to run against the tide, my KM 84 can be difficult from a resonance point of view; I'll often swap it out for that reason. Cheers, Ross
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Post by Guitar on Apr 19, 2020 16:49:41 GMT -6
Yeah, a little ugly goes a long way when it comes to making music sound good. I believe that firmly.
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Post by drumsound on Apr 19, 2020 22:22:22 GMT -6
I find that mics with really crazy frequency charts that "shouldn't" sound good are really good for this. I've often swapped out a really full sounding mic on an acoustic in a dense production with something less pretty. The AT Pro37 is the PERFECT mic for this. It doesn't have a ton of low end, its peaky in some spots, kinda bright in a mostly good way in context.
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Post by iamasound on Apr 19, 2020 23:28:53 GMT -6
I always need to back off the mic recording my dreadnoughts no matter which woods that they are made of. The guitar that doesn't sound particularly good and isn't as much fun to play as the others but sounds really nice parked in front of a microphone is my jumbo spruce topped and maple bodied 1980 Ibanez J-540 NT. Even though there's lots of air volume in that big boned gal, the maple seems to temper the bottom end and the guitar captures wonderfully.
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Post by Omicron9 on Apr 20, 2020 8:09:11 GMT -6
IME, cardioids can accentuate the boom of a dreadnaught. Omnis are better in this application to eliminate the boom due to the omni's lack of proximity effect. Again, just my experience.
-09
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Post by the other mark williams on Apr 20, 2020 8:31:01 GMT -6
Though they’re not particularly en vogue these days, this was one of the things I initially loved about Taylors back in the 90s. Brighter, less boomy than a Martin or Gibson. Seemed to get out of the way a bit more in a full production. Though a bit less complexity of character in a more minimal production.
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Post by theshea on Apr 20, 2020 10:17:11 GMT -6
sometimes i point the SCD at the 8th fret from above, not at the usual 12th fret or where the neck joints the body. that, some micng distance, choosing the right guitar, pick and dynamic EQ (tokyo dawn here) usually helps. biut not always as it's like you say, a very common problem me thinks.
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