|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 1, 2020 4:46:24 GMT -6
There seems to be a wave.. Tiny Telephone have also put their neve console for sale and so has Andrew Scheps.. Tiny Telephone is closing their SF facility. The word is that they will continue in Oakland.
Damn San Francisco real estate market, and a city run by people with no sense of history.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 5:31:39 GMT -6
There seems to be a wave.. Tiny Telephone have also put their neve console for sale and so has Andrew Scheps.. Tiny Telephone is closing their SF facility. The word is that they will continue in Oakland.
Damn San Francisco real estate market, and a city run by people with no sense of history.
Yes, i just read the article about the SF facility closing and running at a loss with reduced rent.
I had seen the Dan Alexander Reverb listing with the console a few days ago..
Seems a shame, some really cool records came out of that facility.. Roll on Oakland with the 8088.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Feb 1, 2020 9:49:48 GMT -6
How many clients are prepared to actually pay for the cost and upkeep of vintage gear like Neves and multitrack tape machines? Clients like the cool factor of 'vintage' but getting them pay a premium for it is another thing entirely. Evidently for TT a lot. But how can you keep a studio open for $350 a day. I won't even unlock the doors for $350. That's an insane business plan. And not unexpected.
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Feb 1, 2020 15:31:56 GMT -6
How many clients are prepared to actually pay for the cost and upkeep of vintage gear like Neves and multitrack tape machines? Clients like the cool factor of 'vintage' but getting them pay a premium for it is another thing entirely. Evidently for TT a lot. But how can you keep a studio open for $350 a day. I won't even unlock the doors for $350. That's an insane business plan. And not unexpected. We charged $650 (AUD) per day ($450 USD) split between two of us with no rent (private residential facility) and that was unsustainable. However we didn't work every day. My studio partner had other income from touring, teaching etc. but I didn't. His property and mostly my gear and I did all the maintenance and repairs which I should have charged the studio for but there was not enough income to cover that.
Great mic collection, great pres including Neves, genuine EMT-140, Lexicon 480L etc.
We were even given an Ampex ATR-102 but it was up to me to fix it and maintain it.
In the end his marriage breakup was the final straw but I could not have continued anyway.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 1, 2020 15:35:24 GMT -6
How many clients are prepared to actually pay for the cost and upkeep of vintage gear like Neves and multitrack tape machines? Clients like the cool factor of 'vintage' but getting them pay a premium for it is another thing entirely. Evidently for TT a lot. But how can you keep a studio open for $350 a day. I won't even unlock the doors for $350. That's an insane business plan. And not unexpected. SF is also a relatively small market, especially for making albums on a grand scale.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 1, 2020 15:56:11 GMT -6
I just don't think any mic collection is worth a million dollars, (especially a bunch of weird old mics that are probably unusable which maybe 25 people in the world actually care about), unless it's 75 mint vintage U47's. If anyone can find a use for them it is Sylvia Massey though.. I'm curious to see where that goes.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 1, 2020 16:47:13 GMT -6
I just don't think any mic collection is worth a million dollars, (especially a bunch of weird old mics that are probably unusable which maybe 25 people in the world actually care about), unless it's 75 mint vintage U47's. If anyone can find a use for them it is Sylvia Massey though.. I'm curious to see where that goes. It’s interesting, when she left Weed I assumed she was moving further down market to defray costs. Could be she’s hoping to turn a profit by breaking up the collection and keeping some cream (mics) off the top.
|
|
|
Post by iamasound on Feb 1, 2020 17:17:51 GMT -6
What a beautiful desk!
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Feb 1, 2020 17:20:54 GMT -6
OMG those vu’s: to die for !
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 1, 2020 17:33:26 GMT -6
It'd be cool if there were more Lady AE's. Kinda like Ida Lupino, back in the day with TV/Film.
Always sorry to hear about various "scale backs", within the Recording Industry. Chris
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Feb 1, 2020 17:39:18 GMT -6
Evidently for TT a lot. But how can you keep a studio open for $350 a day. I won't even unlock the doors for $350. That's an insane business plan. And not unexpected. We charged $650 (AUD) per day ($450 USD) split between two of us with no rent (private residential facility) and that was unsustainable. However we didn't work every day. My studio partner had other income from touring, teaching etc. but I didn't. His property and mostly my gear and I did all the maintenance and repairs which I should have charged the studio for but there was not enough income to cover that.
Great mic collection, great pres including Neves, genuine EMT-140, Lexicon 480L etc.
We were even given an Ampex ATR-102 but it was up to me to fix it and maintain it.
In the end his marriage breakup was the final straw but I could not have continued anyway.
To make 2.5k a month a single artist needs 20 million streams in a year. To make 20 million streams you need a super cool marketing strategy and that will cost 3/4 your time if you DIY.
The other way it will cost you money. Time is money but artists should make music and not marketing.
The whole thing is upside down now.
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Feb 1, 2020 18:25:11 GMT -6
Worse: bassackwards !
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Feb 1, 2020 18:37:24 GMT -6
We charged $650 (AUD) per day ($450 USD) split between two of us with no rent (private residential facility) and that was unsustainable. However we didn't work every day. My studio partner had other income from touring, teaching etc. but I didn't. His property and mostly my gear and I did all the maintenance and repairs which I should have charged the studio for but there was not enough income to cover that.
Great mic collection, great pres including Neves, genuine EMT-140, Lexicon 480L etc.
We were even given an Ampex ATR-102 but it was up to me to fix it and maintain it.
In the end his marriage breakup was the final straw but I could not have continued anyway.
To make 2.5k a month a single artist needs 20 million streams in a year. To make 20 million streams you need a super cool marketing strategy and that will cost 3/4 your time if you DIY.
The other way it will cost you money. Time is money but artists should make music and not marketing.
The whole thing is upside down now.
Man...how do you figure that? I get about 1.2 million streams a quarter right now on youtube. That's 4.8 million streams a year. It nets me approximately $45 a month. USD. Yeah, forty five dollars a month. Almost FIVE Million streams a year. 100% writers share. Wahooooo! I'm surprised artists could cover TT's $350 a day. LOL you've got me curious now though. When I've got some time I'm going to cover ALL the streaming services, calculate the numbers. I'm guessing they will push 2M a quarter - that's 8M a year. Right now, my quarterly was approx $500 for all streamers.
|
|
|
Post by damoongo on Feb 1, 2020 18:47:04 GMT -6
To make 2.5k a month a single artist needs 20 million streams in a year. To make 20 million streams you need a super cool marketing strategy and that will cost 3/4 your time if you DIY.
The other way it will cost you money. Time is money but artists should make music and not marketing.
The whole thing is upside down now.
Man...how do you figure that? I get about 1.2 million streams a quarter right now on youtube. That's 4.8 million streams a year. It nets me approximately $45 a month. USD. Yeah, forty five dollars a month. Almost FIVE Million streams a year. 100% writers share. Wahooooo! I'm surprised artists could cover TT's $350 a day. LOL you've got me curious now though. When I've got some time I'm going to cover ALL the streaming services, calculate the numbers. I'm guessing they will push 2M a quarter - that's 8M a year. Right now, my quarterly was approx $500 for all streamers. The streaming services pay out to the Master owner. Your record deal will dictate how much you see. Maybe you have an unfavourable split with the master owner (label)? EDIT: Sorry, I just saw that you said YouTube. I was talking Spotify/Apple etc...
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Feb 1, 2020 19:20:48 GMT -6
Man...how do you figure that? I get about 1.2 million streams a quarter right now on youtube. That's 4.8 million streams a year. It nets me approximately $45 a month. USD. Yeah, forty five dollars a month. Almost FIVE Million streams a year. 100% writers share. Wahooooo! I'm surprised artists could cover TT's $350 a day. LOL you've got me curious now though. When I've got some time I'm going to cover ALL the streaming services, calculate the numbers. I'm guessing they will push 2M a quarter - that's 8M a year. Right now, my quarterly was approx $500 for all streamers. The streaming services pay out to the Master owner. Your record deal will dictate how much you see. Maybe you have an unfavourable split with the master owner (label)? EDIT: Sorry, I just saw that you said YouTube. I was talking Spotify/Apple etc... I talk Spotify too most people don't understand how Spotify works. I have a few friends which make a living form Spotify without any label deal. One first thing is don't post your music with services who don't report to collecting societies, or pay out near to nothing.
YT is for real the last one I would make business with its good for getting attention not more.
YT lost a litigation in Germany they are committed by law to report the streams to German GEMA they know the exact numbers, but they don't hand them out. Its another mean trick by YouTube to get the music for free.
SCV wants to get content for free.
I hope this ends by laws worldwide in the future.
The Spotify model can work for independent musicians, they report back, and they pay out the money. They now also have some kind of QC.
In the end of the day it all comes down to great marketing to get attention and that is my struggle point. Spotify is a technology I did not like in first, but it made click one day and now I know how it works. There is a whole industry around Spotify which most people ignore.
I also have seen some serious numbers by a label consultant. They make money, but they also want to reduce costs and that is IMO the main reason for studio closings. In a drunken talk someone told me that he gets commission if he cuts cost down on a project.
I like capitalisim but sometimes it just makes no sense to meet the ends.
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Feb 1, 2020 19:43:50 GMT -6
Sure capitalism is the problem. That’s why the Soviet Union was the pinnacle of music production, and Venezuela has been cranking out the hits lately. 😜
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Feb 1, 2020 19:49:31 GMT -6
The streaming services pay out to the Master owner. Your record deal will dictate how much you see. Maybe you have an unfavourable split with the master owner (label)? EDIT: Sorry, I just saw that you said YouTube. I was talking Spotify/Apple etc... I talk Spotify too most people don't understand how Spotify works. I have a few friends which make a living form Spotify without any label deal. One first thing is don't post your music with services who don't report to collecting societies, or pay out near to nothing.
YT is for real the last one I would make business with its good for getting attention not more.
YT lost a litigation in Germany they are committed by law to report the streams to German GEMA they know the exact numbers, but they don't hand them out. Its another mean trick by YouTube to get the music for free.
SCV wants to get content for free.
I hope this ends by laws worldwide in the future.
The Spotify model can work for independent musicians, they report back, and they pay out the money. They now also have some kind of QC.
In the end of the day it all comes down to great marketing to get attention and that is my struggle point. Spotify is a technology I did not like in first, but it made click one day and now I know how it works. There is a whole industry around Spotify which most people ignore.
I also have seen some serious numbers by a label consultant. They make money, but they also want to reduce costs and that is IMO the main reason for studio closings. In a drunken talk someone told me that he gets commission if he cuts cost down on a project.
I like capitalisim but sometimes it just makes no sense to meet the ends.
mrholmes : it gets worse..... Apple Music, Spotify, Pandora, you name it. I'm in all of em. The real numbers - quantified, paid out - no guessed at or calculated before being paid. realgearonline.com/thread/10909/streaming-talk-future
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921
|
Post by ericn on Feb 1, 2020 20:08:08 GMT -6
Let’s see I can do it all in the box, at home and 99% of the public doesn’t care about the Sonics as the listen on AirPods? I get recall and automation for dealing with all those stupid little changes? Hell yeah Im selling off that money pit.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Feb 1, 2020 20:13:40 GMT -6
I talk Spotify too most people don't understand how Spotify works. I have a few friends which make a living form Spotify without any label deal. One first thing is don't post your music with services who don't report to collecting societies, or pay out near to nothing.
YT is for real the last one I would make business with its good for getting attention not more.
YT lost a litigation in Germany they are committed by law to report the streams to German GEMA they know the exact numbers, but they don't hand them out. Its another mean trick by YouTube to get the music for free.
SCV wants to get content for free.
I hope this ends by laws worldwide in the future.
The Spotify model can work for independent musicians, they report back, and they pay out the money. They now also have some kind of QC.
In the end of the day it all comes down to great marketing to get attention and that is my struggle point. Spotify is a technology I did not like in first, but it made click one day and now I know how it works. There is a whole industry around Spotify which most people ignore.
I also have seen some serious numbers by a label consultant. They make money, but they also want to reduce costs and that is IMO the main reason for studio closings. In a drunken talk someone told me that he gets commission if he cuts cost down on a project.
I like capitalisim but sometimes it just makes no sense to meet the ends.
mrholmes : it gets worse..... Apple Music, Spotify, Pandora, you name it. I'm in all of em. The real numbers - quantified, paid out - no guessed at or calculated before being paid. realgearonline.com/thread/10909/streaming-talk-future
I still can do math payout per stream Spotify ø 0,0039 cents * 20.000.000 = 79.400
OK I take your numbers 0.000256748278683 from one quarter with 20 Million plays it still would be around 5 K- still bad true.
Avoid those services who pay bad and try to reach more plays on services who pay good.
The trick is to get plays...
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Feb 1, 2020 20:21:13 GMT -6
I still can do math payout per stream Spotify ø 0,0039 cents * 20.000.000 = 79.400
OK I take your numbers 0.000256748278683 from one quarter with 20 Million plays it still would be around 5 K- still bad true.
Avoid those services who pay bad and try to reach more plays on services who pay good.
The trick is to get plays...
You seem to be completely missing my point. And BTW, I'm not getting 20M plays per quarter. In the AudioInternet realm, I'm getting 2M. $500 bucks. I'm in all (ok, probably not all but most) of the streamers. I am not promoting ANYthing. My publishers are. I'm considering it, but I can make way more money working at Home Depot or McDonalds.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Feb 1, 2020 20:38:28 GMT -6
I still can do math payout per stream Spotify ø 0,0039 cents * 20.000.000 = 79.400
OK I take your numbers 0.000256748278683 from one quarter with 20 Million plays it still would be around 5 K- still bad true.
Avoid those services who pay bad and try to reach more plays on services who pay good.
The trick is to get plays...
You seem to be completely missing my point. And BTW, I'm not getting 20M plays per quarter. In the AudioInternet realm, I'm getting 2M. $500 bucks. I'm in all (ok, probably not all but most) of the streamers. I am not promoting ANYthing. My publishers are. I'm considering it, but I can make way more money working at Home Depot or McDonalds.
May I ask back why having a label if they don't take care for many millions of spinns on Spotify. Times changed and many are stuck in the old roles.
BTW music biz also sucked in the old times. Ripping of the artist is an old game. I heard enough stories form the past....
The true discussion is fair deals.
|
|
|
Post by tasteliketape on Feb 1, 2020 22:12:46 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Feb 2, 2020 12:16:40 GMT -6
I just don't think any mic collection is worth a million dollars, (especially a bunch of weird old mics that are probably unusable which maybe 25 people in the world actually care about), unless it's 75 mint vintage U47's. If anyone can find a use for them it is Sylvia Massey though.. I'm curious to see where that goes. Let's see, those original RCA and WE condensers are $5000+ on regular basis, 50 of those is 1/4 of the nut alone. At that price, way more than 25 people care about them. Then there are the really rare early RCA ribbons that'll bring U47 type prices. And the rare Neumanns. Etc. Then there are the priceless prototypes. Some of those would stun and amaze at auction. More than 1000 mics left to account for after that. If you were interested, what would it take to put that collection back together? There it is in one shot. You gotta be a collector in the first place, if you aren't of that mentality of course it's not worth that to you.
|
|
|
Post by m03 on Feb 2, 2020 13:02:06 GMT -6
Then there are the priceless prototypes. Some of those would stun and amaze at auction. More than 1000 mics left to account for after that. If you were interested, what would it take to put that collection back together? There it is in one shot. You gotta be a collector in the first place, if you aren't of that mentality of course it's not worth that to you. If purchased, you're also now in possession of reference material that can be used to publish articles and books on the history of recording, and information that others might want to pay in order to have access to for the purpose of reverse engineering etc. It's a minor but not insignificant point of value. Imagine what could come out of collaboration with the various mic modeling suppliers (Slate, Townsend Labs, etc). In the realm of "probably wont happen", it would make a fun addition to Audio Test Kitchen too.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Feb 2, 2020 14:03:02 GMT -6
Then there are the priceless prototypes. Some of those would stun and amaze at auction. More than 1000 mics left to account for after that. If you were interested, what would it take to put that collection back together? There it is in one shot. You gotta be a collector in the first place, if you aren't of that mentality of course it's not worth that to you. If purchased, you're also now in possession of reference material that can be used to publish articles and books on the history of recording, and information that others might want to pay in order to have access to for the purpose of reverse engineering etc. It's a minor but not insignificant point of value. Imagine what could come out of collaboration with the various mic modeling suppliers (Slate, Townsend Labs, etc). In the realm of "probably wont happen", it would make a fun addition to Audio Test Kitchen too. Right! Original paper auctions for large money. I was talking to a guy about buying the first decade of the RCA trade magazine from his collection, which is where you find the best quality pictures 'in situ' of original equipment setups. Turned out he had over $5K in 34 issues of a magazine. Those mags auction for hundreds per issue.
|
|