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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 27, 2020 14:04:13 GMT -6
I'm contemplating switching DAWs. After more than a decade using Cubase as my primary DAW, and using Pro Tools for various situations, I'm at a point where my system just isnt stable. Long story short, I can't upgrade Cubase without updated my OS and Pro Tools. That's a headache and money pit I don't want to go down.
So I've been watching Studio One videos for a day now and I'm pretty impressed so far. I've only heard great things about it. I just downloaded the demo today and am going to try it out.
Anyone have any opinions on it? Strengths and weaknesses vs other DAWs? Things I should check out or avoid?
Thanks in advance
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Post by chessparov on Jan 27, 2020 17:12:16 GMT -6
IMHO Bremmer's MultitrackStudio has better stock vocal 'verbs/effects-just to name one other DAW.
I liked the Studio One workflow otherwise, for my simple needs. MultitrackStudio is even simpler though.
Chris
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Post by drsax on Jan 27, 2020 18:07:57 GMT -6
I'm contemplating switching DAWs. After more than a decade using Cubase as my primary DAW, and using Pro Tools for various situations, I'm at a point where my system just isnt stable. Long story short, I can't upgrade Cubase without updated my OS and Pro Tools. That's a headache and money pit I don't want to go down.
So I've been watching Studio One videos for a day now and I'm pretty impressed so far. I've only heard great things about it. I just downloaded the demo today and am going to try it out.
Anyone have any opinions on it? Strengths and weaknesses vs other DAWs? Things I should check out or avoid?
Thanks in advance
Cubase is as stable as any DAW I’ve used. If there are any driver or hardware issues on your computer it can cause crashes. Video cards going defective tend to really mess with DAW’s. I have and have used Studio One, and Cubase is more stable here. Crashes tend to be hardware or driver issues or improper configuration. Trashing and rebuilding Cubase preferences can help. Sorry that your having issues... that’s no fun. |
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Post by popmann on Jan 27, 2020 18:27:36 GMT -6
I mean I HAVE...if they ever add the ability AUTOMATE the plug ins inside the mastering "workflow"...that's otherwise a GENIUS and unique featureset.
Then there's a new plug in format for global console emulations--but they've attracted no third parties...so, I think you still just have their REDD and whatever other one...
Then there's a the hardware integration: presonus rackmount mixers can scale IO as needed and be controlled from the CS18a along with the playback mixer of S1...but, unless are buying new hardware, that's not really a selling point.
Those are the unique bits, IME/O. Other than that...I'd just as soon use Reaper. It's just kind of 'lite' Cubendo without a dongle or midi.
Is this all about Steinberg saying they're dropping (official) support for Win7?
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 27, 2020 18:47:35 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback. To answer some questions Cubase use to be rock solid, but about 2 years ago I got a new (used) Mac Cheesgrater. And updated to Cubase 9.5 (from v6). Right off the bat the midi latency was horrible. It took a lot of work messing with settings to get it somewhat usable but i can barely get it low enough to play midi part, and then only if disable most plugins from my busses. The “Constrain delay comp” didn’t help at all.
On top of that I get elicenser errors all the time and have to constantly reboot. Did all the elicenser troubleshooting, refreshed, ran the clean up in elicenser and it still does it all the time. And now I’m having trouble opening old sessions. Some of them are incredibly light sessions, singer songwriter stuff with maybe 4 tracks and a few plugins.
I can’t upgrade Cubase with upgrading OS to Mojave, which means I loose PT and to pay their stupid fee all over... hence my search for alternatives
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Post by gwlee7 on Jan 27, 2020 19:25:12 GMT -6
I have the last upgrade of Studio One 3 and like it fine. I also have to admit that I am only a serious hobbyist though and have only scratched the surface of what it can do. The reason I picked it is because it was recommended to me when putting my system together. So, I said, “okay” and that was that.  |
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 27, 2020 20:36:15 GMT -6
S1 can be very cool and I like some of it's features because they aren't bogged down by their own history of a DAW at this point. I will say that I run into some annoying bugs from time to time that kill it for me depending on what they are, but it is a nice DAW for sure.
Cubase is nice, though. Tough call. Maybe try a demo of s1?
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Post by popmann on Jan 27, 2020 20:49:26 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback. To answer some questions Cubase use to be rock solid, but about 2 years ago I got a new (used) Mac Cheesgrater. And updated to Cubase 9.5 (from v6). Right off the bat the midi latency was horrible. It took a lot of work messing with settings to get it somewhat usable but i can barely get it low enough to play midi part, and then only if disable most plugins from my busses. The “Constrain delay comp” didn’t help at all. On top of that I get elicenser errors all the time and have to constantly reboot. Did all the elicenser troubleshooting, refreshed, ran the clean up in elicenser and it still does it all the time. And now I’m having trouble opening old sessions. Some of them are incredibly light sessions, singer songwriter stuff with maybe 4 tracks and a few plugins. I can’t upgrade Cubase with upgrading OS to Mojave, which means I loose PT and to pay their stupid fee all over... hence my search for alternatives Mac. Say no more...After using v6 until I couldn't any more, I demo'd 9.5...it was such an unstable POS on my MacBook I uninstalled Cubase all together (from the MacBook). I've been meaning to install v10, since I did BUY that... Check compatibility with 8.5. I remember that running fine on OSX. If they'll give you (or you can find) the installer, it will run with your 9.5 license--you can always run down-level versions. I just checked. I dont' have it. I bet someone here does, though. For audio, Studio One will be fairly familiar. For MIDI...do you use: score editing, articulation mapping, drum mapping...? If not, you might be ok with the MIDI. I feel like there's some limitations if you use the VST rack, too, vs all instrument tracks. It's VI latency easily as good as Cubase on the good side. |
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Post by forgotteng on Jan 28, 2020 7:39:07 GMT -6
I use Studio One 4 in a commercial studio. I moved from Pro Tools about 5 years ago and never looked back. Studio One was much more stable for me and handles outboard hardware way better than the light version of PT ever did. I don't use any plugins from Studio One since I am heavy with hardware and UAD and third party plugs. I also do very little MIDI work. Factor those things in but I love Studio One.
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Post by mikec on Jan 28, 2020 7:51:54 GMT -6
I started messing with Studio One when the first version came out and now after almost 18 years with Pro Tools I've moved over to Studio One full time and the latest version has been rock solid for me. It was a pretty easy transition from Pro Tools since you can just select the Pro Tools key commands settings in Studio One.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 28, 2020 9:29:33 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback. To answer some questions Cubase use to be rock solid, but about 2 years ago I got a new (used) Mac Cheesgrater. And updated to Cubase 9.5 (from v6). Right off the bat the midi latency was horrible. It took a lot of work messing with settings to get it somewhat usable but i can barely get it low enough to play midi part, and then only if disable most plugins from my busses. The “Constrain delay comp” didn’t help at all. On top of that I get elicenser errors all the time and have to constantly reboot. Did all the elicenser troubleshooting, refreshed, ran the clean up in elicenser and it still does it all the time. And now I’m having trouble opening old sessions. Some of them are incredibly light sessions, singer songwriter stuff with maybe 4 tracks and a few plugins. I can’t upgrade Cubase with upgrading OS to Mojave, which means I loose PT and to pay their stupid fee all over... hence my search for alternatives Mac. Say no more...After using v6 until I couldn't any more, I demo'd 9.5...it was such an unstable POS on my MacBook I uninstalled Cubase all together (from the MacBook). I've been meaning to install v10, since I did BUY that... Check compatibility with 8.5. I remember that running fine on OSX. If they'll give you (or you can find) the installer, it will run with your 9.5 license--you can always run down-level versions. I just checked. I dont' have it. I bet someone here does, though. For audio, Studio One will be fairly familiar. For MIDI...do you use: score editing, articulation mapping, drum mapping...? If not, you might be ok with the MIDI. I feel like there's some limitations if you use the VST rack, too, vs all instrument tracks. It's VI latency easily as good as Cubase on the good side. Well at least I know I'm not the only one with issues on v9.5 lol. I dont do anything midi wise that requires score editing or articulation mapping so I'm good there. My initial impressions with the drum mapping in S1 have been great, but so far I've only used their built in VSTi's, I'll see how it works with 3rd party drum vsti's. The latency has been incredibly good. Trying the demo yesterday was the first time in 2 years where I could just plug in my midi controller, pull up a drum rack, and just play. Exactly like it should be. I need to record more audio and try out the editing features...and so far I really miss Cubase's listen bus. I really like how cubase has a separate control room section with control over cue mixes, control room outs etc, and how its separate from the main mixer. I wish everyone did that. |
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Post by bradd on Jan 28, 2020 10:46:57 GMT -6
Cubase is a Windows first, Mac second program. For Macs, I think Logic is really hard to beat. Haven't used Studio One, so I can't comment on it.
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Post by mcirish on Jan 28, 2020 11:03:09 GMT -6
I've heard some bad reports on Cubase 10.5 on Mac. I'm on Windows 10 with Cubase 10 and Nuendo 10. Rock solid for me. I've looked at other DAWs but Nuendo does everything I want and I know it pretty well, so changing would be hard.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 28, 2020 14:07:41 GMT -6
So far I really like the workflow of S1. Its more conducive to songwriting than Cubase, at least thats my initial impression. I have to do a lot more testing, but it's definitely more "fun" than cubase.
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Post by popmann on Jan 28, 2020 14:11:43 GMT -6
15+ years, I have no idea what Cubase's "listen bus" is....as to the control room monitoring section, Mixbus32c has that, and one ups it by being able to put in whatever room correction DSP plug ins. I'm not really into that--but, anyway....
I always like to remind people when I give a review that the only thing I DO with MIDI is string arranging. My keyboards are played live and recorded as audio most of the time. There ARE exceptions....but, the drum mapping is an example of something they may have changed--largely "the" feature is the ability to change the channel/VI mapping per note so I can send the cymbals to BFD, where they're simply more realistic....even though I might love the kick/snare/toms from something else...that might be outdated on my part--because I haven't actually USED MIDI drums for a LONG LONG time....
But, the score editing and articulation management IS....IMO, the only thing that's changed/improved in MIDI sequencing since Performer in the 1990s. Keep that in mind when I'm waxing philosophic about MIDI sequencing "features". I can work without the score editing--that's just super nice....I can't work without articulation management--or more accurately, I refuse to go backwards on that.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 28, 2020 15:16:53 GMT -6
15+ years, I have no idea what Cubase's "listen bus" is....as to the control room monitoring section, Mixbus32c has that, and one ups it by being able to put in whatever room correction DSP plug ins. I'm not really into that--but, anyway.... Yeah you can add plugins to the monitoring section in cubase too, which I love. I use it for room correction plugins and a melda audio plugin that allows me to audition reference tracks in-session. Super convenient and I'm missing those features in S1 so far. The Listen Bus in cubase is that "L" on each channel that allows you to, for example, solo aux tracks with fx on them (ie reverbs/delays etc) without having to listen to the source feeding them. Its a pretty simple be useful feature when eqing reverbs. There's other ways of doing that of course, but its a nice, and easily overlooked feature. |
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Post by Ned Ward on Jan 28, 2020 17:46:50 GMT -6
Can you comment on why you'd "lose" Pro Tools if you upgrade to Mojave? what version do you own? Regardless of whether or not you're paying the subscription, if it worked under high Sierra then PT should work under Mojave without issue.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 28, 2020 18:33:17 GMT -6
Can you comment on why you'd "lose" Pro Tools if you upgrade to Mojave? what version do you own? Regardless of whether or not you're paying the subscription, if it worked under high Sierra then PT should work under Mojave without issue. I have PT 12.xx (don't remember off the top of my head). I've checked compatibility with Avid and it's listed as not compatible with Mojave. I never re-instated my upgrade plan (or whatever they used to call it) so now I have to pay alot more money to upgrade to a version that is. If your experience is that it will still work on Mojave I'd love to know more, that would be awesome. I don't use PT for much more than transferring sessions when I track at outside studios, as well as some comping and editing before file transfer. Edit: I'm running PT 12 and Cubase 9.5 on El Capitan (not High Sierra) |
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Post by popmann on Jan 28, 2020 20:32:01 GMT -6
15+ years, I have no idea what Cubase's "listen bus" is....as to the control room monitoring section, Mixbus32c has that, and one ups it by being able to put in whatever room correction DSP plug ins. I'm not really into that--but, anyway.... Yeah you can add plugins to the monitoring section in cubase too, which I love. I use it for room correction plugins and a melda audio plugin that allows me to audition reference tracks in-session. Super convenient and I'm missing those features in S1 so far. The Listen Bus in cubase is that "L" on each channel that allows you to, for example, solo aux tracks with fx on them (ie reverbs/delays etc) without having to listen to the source feeding them. Its a pretty simple be useful feature when eqing reverbs. There's other ways of doing that of course, but its a nice, and easily overlooked feature. Learn something new everything....FWIW--it's a minor frustration of mine that that's the ONLY way to listen to busses in Mixbus. I'm so used to being able to solo, say the drum bus and hear everything....solo the main room reverb and hear it WITH all the direct signals. But, they have a "Spill" feature that spills everything sent to the bus (hiding all the other channels) so it's still not that hard to ID and solo everything sent to the reverb bus.... |
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Post by Bender on Jan 28, 2020 20:42:04 GMT -6
It seems to me every person who has an issue with cubase is
1) using cubase on a Mac & /or usually in combo with 2) aren’t paying the piper to be up to date for “insert reason here”
I never have issues with cubase on my windows system, grew up with a Mac but I’m the weirdo who prefers windows over macs.
In any case at this point why dump ship for something else/relearn? I’d personally just lay for the machine/ os upgrade and get everything up to date and go from there.
Why all the worrying/issues/research in the meantime? Time is money and both are precious.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 28, 2020 22:14:20 GMT -6
It seems to me every person who has an issue with cubase is 1) using cubase on a Mac & /or usually in combo with 2) aren’t paying the piper to be up to date for “insert reason here” I never have issues with cubase on my windows system, grew up with a Mac but I’m the weirdo who prefers windows over macs. In any case at this point why dump ship for something else/relearn? I’d personally just lay for the machine/ os upgrade and get everything up to date and go from there. Why all the worrying/issues/research in the meantime? Time is money and both are precious. Your point is well taken, but regarding point 2) I don't pay the piper for upgrades unless something is wrong with my current system or its been soooo long that the new features sets will undeniably better my productions/workflow/stability etc.
Basically, once I have a great running system I leave it alone and do nothing (if I can help it). My CPU/software systems run a good 5+ years before I have to upgrade, and often much longer.
Been doing it that way for 20 years and with rare occasion (this being of them) its fine.
As for your other point, Cubase used to rock solid, something about this OS and this version just aint working like it should. So at this point, why not audition something something new that could potentially solve my problems and save me a little money?
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Post by Omicron9 on Jan 29, 2020 8:35:59 GMT -6
I know you didn't mention Reaper, but if you're thinking of moving to a new DAW, it's very deserving of investigation. Rock-solid, no dongle, great price, highly flexible; recommended.
Good luck with your switch!
-09
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 29, 2020 8:46:44 GMT -6
I know you didn't mention Reaper, but if you're thinking of moving to a new DAW, it's very deserving of investigation. Rock-solid, no dongle, great price, highly flexible; recommended. Good luck with your switch! -09 and it can actually fit and run off a dongle if you want it to. |
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Post by Ned Ward on Jan 29, 2020 12:07:50 GMT -6
It seems to me every person who has an issue with cubase is 1) using cubase on a Mac & /or usually in combo with 2) aren’t paying the piper to be up to date for “insert reason here” I never have issues with cubase on my windows system, grew up with a Mac but I’m the weirdo who prefers windows over macs. In any case at this point why dump ship for something else/relearn? I’d personally just lay for the machine/ os upgrade and get everything up to date and go from there. Why all the worrying/issues/research in the meantime? Time is money and both are precious. Your point is well taken, but regarding point 2) I don't pay the piper for upgrades unless something is wrong with my current system or its been soooo long that the new features sets will undeniably better my productions/workflow/stability etc.
Basically, once I have a great running system I leave it alone and do nothing (if I can help it). My CPU/software systems run a good 5+ years before I have to upgrade, and often much longer.
Been doing it that way for 20 years and with rare occasion (this being of them) its fine.
As for your other point, Cubase used to rock solid, something about this OS and this version just aint working like it should. So at this point, why not audition something something new that could potentially solve my problems and save me a little money?
Trying to help figure out things... Have you done a clean install of El Capitan and a Clean install of Cubase, no updating over existing installs? I can't tell you how much legacy crap is left over in the System with updaters vs. clean installs. Definitely worth trying. I know in the past with pro tools that was an issue. Try clean install with stock plugins only - then add in whatever you're using. You may find the clean install helped, or you may find one of your VSTs or VSTi's is the culprit, not Cubase. |
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Post by popmann on Jan 29, 2020 12:09:29 GMT -6
It seems to me every person who has an issue with cubase is 1) using cubase on a Mac & /or usually in combo with 2) aren’t paying the piper to be up to date for “insert reason here” You can stop with #1. When I couldn't get Cubase 9.5 to be stable it was the most recent version...thus I didn't buy it...and when I wanted to upgrade to v10, I only even bothered to demo it on Windows, where I've never NOT had a stable version. He has a 10+ year old computer. He can't upgrade to the latest OSX. Nor would I EVER advise that (on 10 year old hardware-beefy as the Xeon's might be)...now, if the suggestion is that he needs to buy a new Mac of the DSP level....and modern peripherals...maybe an inferior audio interface...so he can run the latest OSX, so that he can THEN pay both Steinberg AND Avid (because I'd bet 9.5 won't run at all on a new Mac) for updates...sure, it's because he "isn't paying the piper". I still think it's a better idea to get a version of Cubase that runs well on OSX.11. I don't know what that is(see below-looks like 8 was current with the OS)...but, I know 8.5 ran perfectly fine here on 10.12. helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/206090224-Mac-OS-X-10-11-El-Capitan-Product-Compatibility-InfoI don't really know what it gains him to switch to Studio One. The problem is Apple. If he just wants an app that runs well on his current machine, which he'll then stay with until the hardware dies...I mean, again--his Cubase license allows him to run any down level version. I'd start with 8.5. If they "announced" 8 being compatible, it means it was current when OSX.11 shipped...which means 8.5 would be the first one made specifically FOR El Capitain. |
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