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Post by saltyjames on Jan 21, 2020 14:18:52 GMT -6
Recording a lot of my own songs both alone and with an assistant.
I play mainly guitar, bass and keys pretty well and I can play drums to a lesser degree rhythmically, but I have a good firm hit and so when I record drums they sound fantastic (which makes me want to drum on my own material), but I am much tighter on the melodic instruments mentioned above.
If I track drums first (which I have had some success with) it is hard to get all the inflections and changes a nuance / feel that I get when overdubbing drums on top of more complete tracks. But when I track drums later over more complete tracks there isn't as tight of a sync with the overall music. Drums are more foundational, I guess and really need to go on earlier.
I'm having trouble getting some songs started. If I was a better drummer I could start with the drums. But I am not.
I can put down very tight bass, guitar and piano / key parts. But overdubbing drums is kinda weird to me both feel wise and editing wise.
Any one deal with similar production stuff. If so how do you get started? Got any solutions?
I know I could menu dive logic's drum parts, but I have tried that and nothing ever really fits that well.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 21, 2020 14:37:48 GMT -6
Maybe start with the one you feel like playing that day, scratch track it the best you can and dub over the parts. Listen to all the dubs, grab the one with the tightest groove, and that becomes your master.
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Post by svart on Jan 21, 2020 15:33:16 GMT -6
I'm the opposite. As a drummer, it's the melodic stuff that I'm not good at. I MUST play guitar along with some drums in order to feel it. It makes it really hard to write music since I generally only have a few bars of a melody but the minute I play drums and play guitar to it, it changes my whole intention and outlook and things just get overly complicated.
I have so much music in pieces are parts that I can't seem to do anything with, until I end up deleting it when I eventually listen back and hate it.
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Post by mcirish on Jan 21, 2020 16:25:33 GMT -6
I will use a loop or a click to get scratch guitar or keyboards down. Then, I will add drums to that and go back and replace the scratch stuff.
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Post by saltyjames on Jan 21, 2020 16:29:04 GMT -6
Maybe start with the one you feel like playing that day, scratch track it the best you can and dub over the parts. Listen to all the dubs, grab the one with the tightest groove, and that becomes your master. Spoken like someone who has been through this! I've defaulted to this plan a lot. It has worked, but it takes a lot of time, and is also hard to plan.
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Post by saltyjames on Jan 21, 2020 16:30:59 GMT -6
I'm the opposite. As a drummer, it's the melodic stuff that I'm not good at. I MUST play guitar along with some drums in order to feel it. It makes it really hard to write music since I generally only have a few bars of a melody but the minute I play drums and play guitar to it, it changes my whole intention and outlook and things just get overly complicated. I have so much music in pieces are parts that I can't seem to do anything with, until I end up deleting it when I eventually listen back and hate it. I KNOW what you mean.. I mean in reverse. haha..
Don't delete anything, put those pieces all in one project(s) at least.
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Post by chessparov on Jan 21, 2020 16:58:31 GMT -6
Clips? Thanks, Chris
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 21, 2020 17:31:40 GMT -6
Recording a lot of my own songs both alone and with an assistant.
I play mainly guitar, bass and keys pretty well and I can play drums to a lesser degree rhythmically, but I have a good firm hit and so when I record drums they sound fantastic (which makes me want to drum on my own material), but I am much tighter on the melodic instruments mentioned above.
If I track drums first (which I have had some success with) it is hard to get all the inflections and changes a nuance / feel that I get when overdubbing drums on top of more complete tracks. But when I track drums later over more complete tracks there isn't as tight of a sync with the overall music. Drums are more foundational, I guess and really need to go on earlier.
I'm having trouble getting some songs started. If I was a better drummer I could start with the drums. But I am not.
I can put down very tight bass, guitar and piano / key parts. But overdubbing drums is kinda weird to me both feel wise and editing wise.
Any one deal with similar production stuff. If so how do you get started? Got any solutions?
I know I could menu dive logic's drum parts, but I have tried that and nothing ever really fits that well.
I generally record with a drummer and probably would even if I wasn't so lousy on the instrument.
The reason is that when tracking drums I generally lay down a scratch vocal and rhythm guitar part that the drummer plays along with wearing cans. That way the drummer gets the feeling that I'm trying to communicate in the song.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 21, 2020 17:45:45 GMT -6
I'm the opposite. As a drummer, it's the melodic stuff that I'm not good at. I MUST play guitar along with some drums in order to feel it. +1 Track a ghost track with guitar and vocals first, play drums over this.... problem solved...
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Post by subspace on Jan 22, 2020 12:48:30 GMT -6
Trick I’ve used recording musicians who play it all themselves. Give them a click, have them strum a single chord on the down beat of each part and sing/hum/scat a melody structure over it. Then I play it back with the click only on for the intro and lay drums over the chord/melody changes If they have decent time they can land the ones just hearing the melody/single chords and not playing around a click that won’t be in the final mix. Had good results when shooting for a more organic feel and avoiding the invisible click syndrome.
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Post by stratboy on Jan 22, 2020 18:45:33 GMT -6
Some variation on Svart, mrholmes and subspace posts. I lay down a guitar/vocal guide to a click track, then record my ‘drum’ part to that. Then build up everything else in whatever order I feel like at the time. I was just listening to McCartney’s first solo album today. Good example of what can be done with some pretty rudimentary drumming and building up parts while self-recording. Inspirational.
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 22, 2020 19:09:04 GMT -6
Same here...track a rough acoustic/vocal thing to a click, then lay down drums. Then I start layering new parts. The trick I’ve found is to really nail the arrangement with your “demo” track, that way when you layer, you’re putting down stuff that all builds together. If I keep things too simple the track can sound a little stale in the end. I posted my ep in the what are you working on section of the forum with the title “my record” if you wanna check it out.
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Post by gwlee7 on Jan 22, 2020 21:00:31 GMT -6
nick8801Those songs sound outstanding. I love the vibe. To me sort of George Harrison’s hanging out with Elvis Costello.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 24, 2020 9:18:55 GMT -6
Some variation on Svart, mrholmes and subspace posts. I lay down a guitar/vocal guide to a click track, then record my ‘drum’ part to that. Then build up everything else in whatever order I feel like at the time. I was just listening to McCartney’s first solo album today. Good example of what can be done with some pretty rudimentary drumming and building up parts while self-recording. Inspirational.
This trick also works with virtual drumming aka LogicDrummer. I first lay down the song structure and then logic drummer gets his drumming advises. There is no easier way to get good sounding drums at a low budget.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 24, 2020 10:24:26 GMT -6
I think you just have to land on your process. I usually get a rudimentary drum beat down and then follow with acoustic guitars. Then I'll add electric guitar beds - chunks and rakes on one side, moving part on the other. Then maybe keys...then main drums, then bass...etc.
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Post by chromies on Jan 24, 2020 11:31:07 GMT -6
I feel your pain. On top of the challenges you talk about, throw in the engineering. Sometimes i would give anything for another person to just hit the damn snare for me while i adjust pres eq comp input level and monitor mix, before hitting play and sprinting behind the set to throw the headphones on in time for the start of the song 🙄
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Post by saltyjames on Jan 25, 2020 19:12:51 GMT -6
I feel your pain. On top of the challenges you talk about, throw in the engineering. Sometimes i would give anything for another person to just hit the damn snare for me while i adjust pres eq comp input level and monitor mix, before hitting play and sprinting behind the set to throw the headphones on in time for the start of the song 🙄 This is why I never move my drum (and many other spot) mics. And I write down my settings quite carefully.
I also use comp and eq to tape.. so I know exactly where and what to change when I need to. Getting good sounds is not my problem! I can kinda get any sound I want pretty easy now.
My problem is getting thru that initial phase of getting the first 2-5 tracks down.
Once the basic tracks are down o'dubbing is easy. It's always the start that is so hard.
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danm
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by danm on Jan 30, 2020 23:37:51 GMT -6
Trying to do an A+ job of engineering and performing on the same session is just not a sane proposition.
Doesn't mean you can't make a hit record as a one-man everything: look at Billie Eilish, who just swept the grammys, or at Foster the People's "Pumped up Kicks", or a gazillion other recent hits with various flavors of actual recorded parts that are imperfectly engineered.
To me, if you want to record yourself making music, you have to let go of the pursuit of technical fidelity. Just set all the mic inputs so you're at like -18 peak or something, and then enable all tracks and hit record.
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Post by Quint on Jan 31, 2020 0:48:47 GMT -6
Some variation on Svart, mrholmes and subspace posts. I lay down a guitar/vocal guide to a click track, then record my ‘drum’ part to that. Then build up everything else in whatever order I feel like at the time. I was just listening to McCartney’s first solo album today. Good example of what can be done with some pretty rudimentary drumming and building up parts while self-recording. Inspirational. Is that how Paul's first album was tracked? Didn't know that.
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Post by Quint on Jan 31, 2020 0:56:46 GMT -6
I'm the opposite. As a drummer, it's the melodic stuff that I'm not good at. I MUST play guitar along with some drums in order to feel it. It makes it really hard to write music since I generally only have a few bars of a melody but the minute I play drums and play guitar to it, it changes my whole intention and outlook and things just get overly complicated. I have so much music in pieces are parts that I can't seem to do anything with, until I end up deleting it when I eventually listen back and hate it. I used to always be a drummer first, as that's what I started playing first, so I get it. But then I started playing bass, and then guitar and that actually transitioned me into more of a guitar player/writer over being a drummer. All that being said, I must have a real drum track to play guitar/bass over when I'm recording my own stuff. When recording others, it just depends. I still always focus on the drums, no matter what. So, yeah, without a good drum track to listen to, my guitar and bass playing suffers for it, and I approach overdubs for other people the same way. Do whatever it takes to get a good drum take down. And then go from there.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 31, 2020 6:22:02 GMT -6
Trying to do an A+ job of engineering and performing on the same session is just not a sane proposition. Doesn't mean you can't make a hit record as a one-man everything: look at Billie Eilish, who just swept the grammys, or at Foster the People's "Pumped up Kicks", or a gazillion other recent hits with various flavors of actual recorded parts that are imperfectly engineered. To me, if you want to record yourself making music, you have to let go of the pursuit of technical fidelity. Just set all the mic inputs so you're at like -18 peak or something, and then enable all tracks and hit record. I’m not so sure that is true. It’s entirely possible to do, you just have to take the time to get good at it and have the patience to push through. Honestly after years of getting 10 things thrown at me from musicians, producers, people in on the hang etc while being an assistant on large sessions, sitting in a room alone is pretty damn peaceful and almost allows me to think better. Juggling my own mind is far more simple than juggling the requests of 10 different people - most of whom have no clue what they are asking for hahaha
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