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Post by soundintheround on Jan 20, 2020 18:08:39 GMT -6
Not sure what State everyone lives in here, but are the good ol' days of buying and selling used gear on eBay (or Reverb/etc) past us?
For the most part, I could usually find a good deal and if I change my mind, sell it for mostly what I paid (accounting for the fees/etc). But now that Uncle Sam wants a cut and taxes are part of the equation, it makes it pretty difficult to not incur some loss on basically almost every purchase.
How are you all handling this? Some loop hole to the rule? Is gear trading on classified/forums going to come back more?
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 20, 2020 18:31:20 GMT -6
I sell from Canada and I have noticed that people want to pay less and less for quality used gear to the point of why bother trying to sell it?
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Post by saltyjames on Jan 20, 2020 18:36:02 GMT -6
Ebay ain't what it used to be.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 20, 2020 18:47:39 GMT -6
Patience is key I think. I've gotten some amazing deals in the last year or so.
Some times also helps if you offer to do business off the platform to avoid all the fees.
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 20, 2020 18:53:40 GMT -6
Maybe wasn't clear. I just changed the Thread title... I'm specifically referring to platforms like eBay and Reverb and the new Tax laws.
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Post by wiz on Jan 20, 2020 19:01:09 GMT -6
In Oz they changed the tax law on bringing stuff in from OS. Killed a lot of my purchases..
Facebook Marketplace seems to be okay for deals, no protection though.
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 20, 2020 19:03:37 GMT -6
Well I've still found great deals on reverb. Haven't noticed much about the tax thing least not yet.
Certainly have noticed some thing siy rocket in price that I want compared to what they were going for a bit a go. But some stuff come down .
I don't really ever go in with the mind set that I'll break even with a piece of gear though. The only equipment that tends to really hold value is microphones. Otherwise it's kind of random on what get popular and is "cool" and then that will hold value. Otherwise I just assume I'll loose money no matter what. Then on the off chance I make money it's great.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 20, 2020 19:04:36 GMT -6
Maybe wasn't clear. I just changed the Thread title... I'm specifically referring to platforms like eBay and Reverb and the new Tax laws. Well, then where are you gonna sell it? Taxes are taxes.
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Post by winetree on Jan 20, 2020 19:14:43 GMT -6
I could tell you about the great deals I bought from the 80's like 4 - Urei 1176s ( D versions ) for $150.00 apiece. and much more. No tax. There have been some major Ebay purchases I was considering, looking a few days later they started charging tax and I didn't buy the items. With the world eBay market anything with a tube or is old is Gold. Half the stuff I wouldn't buy when it was new and now that's it old or has a tube it's worth 10X the amount. You have be carful not to purchase overseas goods over $800. or you get nailed for import duties. It unknowably happen to me. Now I buy Local Craigslist deals or new from Frontend Audio ( no tax, No shipping.) I'm in California and we're already being taxed to death. And there's even tax on that.
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Post by indiehouse on Jan 20, 2020 19:55:30 GMT -6
Not sure what State everyone lives in here, but are the good ol' days of buying and selling used gear on eBay (or Reverb/etc) past us? For the most part, I could usually find a good deal and if I change my mind, sell it for mostly what I paid (accounting for the fees/etc). But now that Uncle Sam wants a cut and taxes are part of the equation, it makes it pretty difficult to not incur some loss on basically almost every purchase. How are you all handling this? Some loop hole to the rule? Is gear trading on classified/forums going to come back more? I totally get what you are saying and agree 100%. My sales tax rate is 7.5%. Kills most deals for me, and I’m much more hesitant to make gear purchases now. I rarely use eBay to sell, with their ridiculous 10% fees.
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Post by sirthought on Jan 20, 2020 20:35:49 GMT -6
You should be paying sales tax on anything you buy online, so I'm not clear on how that impacts what people are charging on a deal/no deal for used stuff. The two decades of states not collecting sales tax revenue have really hit services that people need, so I'm not gonna bitch about that change. Hopefully some brick and mortar store jobs will start to come back too. (Sorry if this is too political, but you guys are talking about it.)
I do think ebay and reverb started a trend of sellers becoming more savvy to understanding how much they ought to at least try to get. It's why I'm super selective with what I buy and why I have so much less gear than what I see being talked about on this page. LOL
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Post by mulmany on Jan 20, 2020 21:14:57 GMT -6
I live in a no sales tax state, so I am exempt!😁
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Post by swafford on Jan 21, 2020 5:06:10 GMT -6
Not for me. I'm one of those people that thinks paying state taxes is part of the social compact I make (or aspire to make) to live in an educated, healthy and cohesive society. Adding 6% to the price is hardly a deal killer when I'm saving 30 - 60% off new. If Ohio wanted to properly fund primary education, Oh-EPA, etc. I'd be on board with paying more. Losing the fees and taxes when I resell is the price I'm willing to pay for ownership, and when viewed from that perspective, it's a good deal. Life and commerce isn't zero sum.
I generally don't use Ebay unless I'm trolling for good quality, used mic cables, looking to add to my Borsalino collection, motorcycle parts or camera lenses, but I buy and sell on Reverb frequently.
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Post by sirthought on Jan 21, 2020 6:30:19 GMT -6
I generally don't use Ebay unless I'm trolling for good quality, used mic cables, looking to add to my Borsalino collection, motorcycle parts or camera lenses, but I buy and sell on Reverb frequently. And from what I recall, it sounds like you've gotten some great deals on Reverb.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 21, 2020 7:06:43 GMT -6
I do think ebay and reverb started a trend of sellers becoming more savvy to understanding how much they ought to at least try to get. It's why I'm super selective with what I buy and why I have so much less gear than what I see being talked about on this page. LOL
Exactly how I see it.
I ask myself three times if and why I need something new.
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Post by svart on Jan 21, 2020 8:00:01 GMT -6
Good old days?
For a few years after Ebay started, yes, good days but short lived. Audio gear in particular was still in the digital renaissance and everyone was dumping analog stuff. Ebay was more like a digital yard sale and people just wanted to get rid of things that they might be able to sell and since there was no real gauge for what a used piece of gear was worth, people just put things up for crazy cheap.
It had yet to become the way we define what a used *thing* is worth, but it did so within a few years as people would bid things up to a point where the demand wouldn't support the price and then you had your new "worth" of the item based on the supply available. As people snapped up the deals, the prices went up due to the lower supplies.
However, as everyone and their mothers have figured out how to turn ebay into a true commerce site, everyone both starts there and references it for pricing. This has built a stable used-price structure for most things people want to buy. It's also unfortunately all but killed the "good deal" and now you just get the going price for something.
It's also created unicorns out of items too. I remember seeing original 1176's going for 300-400$ back in the late 90's. Now you can't get a used original for 2000$ and clones are going for 600-800$ on name alone. That's a real bummer too, because I knew back then they were worth more but being a new graduate, being dirt-poor and sometimes living out of my car, I had almost no money to eat, let alone buy audio gear. Would have been a great investment if someone had the cash and a place to store them for 20 years.
But then again, you have Reverb, where everything is priced 20% higher than ebay, but at least it's available because nobody is paying those prices..
But I don't think you wanted to know about that stuff. It sounds like you wanted to know about taxes..
I do find it funny in a very "I gotta laugh or I'm going to cry" kind of way. Every single thing is taxed at every stage of it's development. They tax the land the materials are mined on, they tax the labor to mine the materials, they tax the income of the people employed to do the mining, they tax the amounts of materials recovered, they tax the machines used to mine, the gas for the machines, the parts for the machines, the transport of the materials, the buildings and property to store the materials, the machines and labor used to turn the materials into something usable like sheet metal. This happens for every step of the way, perhaps hundreds of steps, all taxed.
Every single stage of every piece is taxed from the moment someone takes raw materials from the ground, to the point where it's sold on ebay as used gear that's many years old.
If you add up all the taxes levied on every stage of some product's life, the taxes equal many hundred times what the original purchaser paid, and what the economy determines something worth through supply and demand.
Why? Because the government can't balance the budgets. They have zero accountability to anyone to make things efficient and cost effective, unlike the supply-and-demand economy can. Government can only ride on the back of capitalism, siphoning off income from those who make things, but they have the ability to jail you for not paying up, so most folks just render unto Caesar to avoid the government threats.
Their solution is to always tax more. 6% is just the start. I remember when my local sales tax was 4%. It's now 8% with an additional 1% SPLOST in some areas, and additional 15-25% vice taxes on beer/liquor/ciggys because they know that people aren't going to bat an eye on a couple more percent if it's on their vices.
But that's how they get you. Small, incremental changes over time so that you are only mildly put-off, but not so much that you start dumping tea in the harbors, but also, your kids will be born into a world with so many taxes that it's just "normal" for them.
Meanwhile, with everything taxed to kingdom-come, we're still 23 Trillion in debt.
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Post by swafford on Jan 21, 2020 8:06:22 GMT -6
I generally don't use Ebay unless I'm trolling for good quality, used mic cables, looking to add to my Borsalino collection, motorcycle parts or camera lenses, but I buy and sell on Reverb frequently. And from what I recall, it sounds like you've gotten some great deals on Reverb. I like to think I am a savvy buyer, though I have gotten burned when desire outwits reason. Know where the bottom is, know what you are willing to pay and be patient. Like you pointed out, Reverb and Ebay pretty much give you the data you need to know a fair price.
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Post by sean on Jan 21, 2020 8:17:44 GMT -6
9.25% here in Nashville definitely hurts, and at least for me it’s slowed down my Reverb sales. I’ve been buying a lot of stuff from Front End Audio, no sales tax and I can usually get something brand new for what it would cost used with tax from eBay or Reverb.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 21, 2020 9:07:31 GMT -6
Up until about 2006. There was an era in the early 2000's when you could have shellacked a turd onto a dinner plate and someone would have bought it. Then they banned human excrement and remains......
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Post by svart on Jan 21, 2020 9:12:04 GMT -6
Up until about 2006. There was an era in the early 2000's when you could have shellacked a turd onto a dinner plate and someone would have bought it. Then they banned human excrement and remains...... You sound disappointed. Which one was it that you wanted? The shellacked poop, or the human remains?
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Post by EmRR on Jan 21, 2020 9:16:16 GMT -6
Just an observation of the frenzy that was. You could sell ANYTHING. Who'da thunk you'd need to ban these things back then?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on Jan 21, 2020 9:23:33 GMT -6
Bargains are out there you just need to look beyond the favorites everybody wants and be prepared to move fast. Taxes are like shipping, your going to end up paying them some how so you just deal with it, we should have been paying them, because we didn’t they are now required to collect them. Funny how the government , who most don’t trust with their money realized they couldn’t trust us either l.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 21, 2020 10:02:31 GMT -6
Good old days? For a few years after Ebay started, yes, good days but short lived. Audio gear in particular was still in the digital renaissance and everyone was dumping analog stuff. Ebay was more like a digital yard sale and people just wanted to get rid of things that they might be able to sell and since there was no real gauge for what a used piece of gear was worth, people just put things up for crazy cheap. It had yet to become the way we define what a used *thing* is worth, but it did so within a few years as people would bid things up to a point where the demand wouldn't support the price and then you had your new "worth" of the item based on the supply available. As people snapped up the deals, the prices went up due to the lower supplies. However, as everyone and their mothers have figured out how to turn ebay into a true commerce site, everyone both starts there and references it for pricing. This has built a stable used-price structure for most things people want to buy. It's also unfortunately all but killed the "good deal" and now you just get the going price for something. It's also created unicorns out of items too. I remember seeing original 1176's going for 300-400$ back in the late 90's. Now you can't get a used original for 2000$ and clones are going for 600-800$ on name alone. That's a real bummer too, because I knew back then they were worth more but being a new graduate, being dirt-poor and sometimes living out of my car, I had almost no money to eat, let alone buy audio gear. Would have been a great investment if someone had the cash and a place to store them for 20 years. But then again, you have Reverb, where everything is priced 20% higher than ebay, but at least it's available because nobody is paying those prices.. But I don't think you wanted to know about that stuff. It sounds like you wanted to know about taxes.. I do find it funny in a very "I gotta laugh or I'm going to cry" kind of way. Every single thing is taxed at every stage of it's development. They tax the land the materials are mined on, they tax the labor to mine the materials, they tax the income of the people employed to do the mining, they tax the amounts of materials recovered, they tax the machines used to mine, the gas for the machines, the parts for the machines, the transport of the materials, the buildings and property to store the materials, the machines and labor used to turn the materials into something usable like sheet metal. This happens for every step of the way, perhaps hundreds of steps, all taxed. Every single stage of every piece is taxed from the moment someone takes raw materials from the ground, to the point where it's sold on ebay as used gear that's many years old. If you add up all the taxes levied on every stage of some product's life, the taxes equal many hundred times what the original purchaser paid, and what the economy determines something worth through supply and demand. Why? Because the government can't balance the budgets. They have zero accountability to anyone to make things efficient and cost effective, unlike the supply-and-demand economy can. Government can only ride on the back of capitalism, siphoning off income from those who make things, but they have the ability to jail you for not paying up, so most folks just render unto Caesar to avoid the government threats. Their solution is to always tax more. 6% is just the start. I remember when my local sales tax was 4%. It's now 8% with an additional 1% SPLOST in some areas, and additional 15-25% vice taxes on beer/liquor/ciggys because they know that people aren't going to bat an eye on a couple more percent if it's on their vices. But that's how they get you. Small, incremental changes over time so that you are only mildly put-off, but not so much that you start dumping tea in the harbors, but also, your kids will be born into a world with so many taxes that it's just "normal" for them. Meanwhile, with everything taxed to kingdom-come, we're still 23 Trillion in debt. If I could like this 5000 times, I would.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 21, 2020 10:03:22 GMT -6
9.25% here in Nashville definitely hurts, and at least for me it’s slowed down my Reverb sales. I’ve been buying a lot of stuff from Front End Audio, no sales tax and I can usually get something brand new for what it would cost used with tax from eBay or Reverb. Hmmm. People should check with me before they buy.
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Post by svart on Jan 21, 2020 10:26:21 GMT -6
Good old days? For a few years after Ebay started, yes, good days but short lived. Audio gear in particular was still in the digital renaissance and everyone was dumping analog stuff. Ebay was more like a digital yard sale and people just wanted to get rid of things that they might be able to sell and since there was no real gauge for what a used piece of gear was worth, people just put things up for crazy cheap. It had yet to become the way we define what a used *thing* is worth, but it did so within a few years as people would bid things up to a point where the demand wouldn't support the price and then you had your new "worth" of the item based on the supply available. As people snapped up the deals, the prices went up due to the lower supplies. However, as everyone and their mothers have figured out how to turn ebay into a true commerce site, everyone both starts there and references it for pricing. This has built a stable used-price structure for most things people want to buy. It's also unfortunately all but killed the "good deal" and now you just get the going price for something. It's also created unicorns out of items too. I remember seeing original 1176's going for 300-400$ back in the late 90's. Now you can't get a used original for 2000$ and clones are going for 600-800$ on name alone. That's a real bummer too, because I knew back then they were worth more but being a new graduate, being dirt-poor and sometimes living out of my car, I had almost no money to eat, let alone buy audio gear. Would have been a great investment if someone had the cash and a place to store them for 20 years. But then again, you have Reverb, where everything is priced 20% higher than ebay, but at least it's available because nobody is paying those prices.. But I don't think you wanted to know about that stuff. It sounds like you wanted to know about taxes.. I do find it funny in a very "I gotta laugh or I'm going to cry" kind of way. Every single thing is taxed at every stage of it's development. They tax the land the materials are mined on, they tax the labor to mine the materials, they tax the income of the people employed to do the mining, they tax the amounts of materials recovered, they tax the machines used to mine, the gas for the machines, the parts for the machines, the transport of the materials, the buildings and property to store the materials, the machines and labor used to turn the materials into something usable like sheet metal. This happens for every step of the way, perhaps hundreds of steps, all taxed. Every single stage of every piece is taxed from the moment someone takes raw materials from the ground, to the point where it's sold on ebay as used gear that's many years old. If you add up all the taxes levied on every stage of some product's life, the taxes equal many hundred times what the original purchaser paid, and what the economy determines something worth through supply and demand. Why? Because the government can't balance the budgets. They have zero accountability to anyone to make things efficient and cost effective, unlike the supply-and-demand economy can. Government can only ride on the back of capitalism, siphoning off income from those who make things, but they have the ability to jail you for not paying up, so most folks just render unto Caesar to avoid the government threats. Their solution is to always tax more. 6% is just the start. I remember when my local sales tax was 4%. It's now 8% with an additional 1% SPLOST in some areas, and additional 15-25% vice taxes on beer/liquor/ciggys because they know that people aren't going to bat an eye on a couple more percent if it's on their vices. But that's how they get you. Small, incremental changes over time so that you are only mildly put-off, but not so much that you start dumping tea in the harbors, but also, your kids will be born into a world with so many taxes that it's just "normal" for them. Meanwhile, with everything taxed to kingdom-come, we're still 23 Trillion in debt. If I could like this 5000 times, I would. I wanted to like my own post but it seemed pretentious to do so. Also, I think i got a little long winded and didn't really get to the point where I said "since everything is taxed so much from beginning to end, why are we ONLY complaining about a few more percent on top?" Seriously, why is only the last couple percent what is making people upset? Because they're so used to the existing taxes they don't even see them anymore. This is a new thing for most folks, but at some point all these other taxes were new and people were pissed about them too, but Big Government has long been too big for the citizens to push back on. You toe the line and pay up or you get steamrolled by those who are telling you it's for your own good.. Anyway, maybe a little too political for the forum so I'll digress.
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