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Post by saltyjames on Jan 17, 2020 18:56:47 GMT -6
It’s not just the reverbs and synths. It also seems there is simpler song structures and somewhat simpler (less bloated) instrumentation. I recently noticed that track limits (usually 24) simplifies things. Chorused guitars, DX7’s Lots of space in choruses, fuller verses instrumentation. Which seems to be reversed nowadays. Tape on everything so a smoother high end.
Excited for the group’s wisdom here.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 17, 2020 19:09:34 GMT -6
More big hair!!
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 17, 2020 19:10:59 GMT -6
I don't it's really just low track count. In some ways in the 80s they were layering more stuff than ever. Kind of depends on the genre.
Plenty of stuff is done today with pretty low track count.
But it was an interesting era of early digital devices(synths, reverbs, SFX) and blend of analog. I think that's what it really was personally. 80s effects just sound very different and those ic chips aren't made like that anymore. They were so crappy they were good.
You could probably analyze a lot of different things though like recording techniques, gear, and just over all production practices that were done differently.
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Post by wiz on Jan 17, 2020 19:42:40 GMT -6
I was just listening to one of my favourite 80s bands, and I really love the sound of their records... The Cars.
I think its low track count (enforced by the technology of the time) really good arrangements of songs.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by popmann on Jan 17, 2020 20:19:09 GMT -6
It was arguably the height of technical musicianship in the studio in pop music. GenX came along and made polished musicianship uncool.
It was the last decade where many top ten hits featured jazz pedigree players. Think about it....the last decade where, outside Nashville, professional songwriters were very typically used. For better and worse. And while you can say “but max martin....”—you can either put him as an exception or just a new breed of songwriting track making producer. Im saying that if yu look at the average pop record in 1984, you'll see a lot of brill building types on both hits and album cuts.
I think the best “80s sounding stuff” in pop happened in the first half of the 90s, when all the labels looked to GenX’s punk reboot....and the ignored boomer artists got to make the evolved records they wanted to...they still had deals and budget, but no one in A&R was trying to mold them into something. It became “adult contemporary”.
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Post by popmann on Jan 17, 2020 20:38:22 GMT -6
Also, if you're trying to duplicate keyboard sounds....you absolutely don't want DX7. Doesn't matter if that got used on something....you want an early 90s ROMpler. It will have the "studio created" 80s keyboard sounds....otherwise, that DX7 EP run through the DimD and EQ'd and modded and etc....so, the Blue LA EP in combinations in Keyscape. Deeply sampled ACTUAL board on all those hits out of LA....anyway....a Roland JV1080 or Kurzweil K2500 will be more "80s sounding" than any board available IN the 80s.
And it doesn't take much....I had a custom D70 program I used JUST to play a little interlude melody, and every person who heard it immediately went "how 80s"....feel like I bought that board in 1990/91....new....and programmed that sound myself based on the pop tunes on the radio at the time....and the entire REST of said recording was a home recorded "raw sounding" acoustic drum kit....grand piano....suffice to say there was nothing "80s sounding" about that record EXCEPT that little melody line, which is sort of why I thought it would work--as a stark contrast to the much more "GenX garage band" sound....I was wrong, I think.
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Post by viciousbliss on Jan 17, 2020 21:18:27 GMT -6
I try to duplicate a lot of those sounds. There’s a few things that I think help:
Cranesong-Phoenix, Peacock, RA BX Console SSL E and N Overloud Dopamine Overloud Eq 84 Duende Bus VLB902 UAD 1176 UAD 176 UAD Avalon 737 UAD 480 UAD Precision Delay UAD 102 UAD Neve DFC UAD RMX 16 UAD 2500 Tube Tech MK II Weiss DS-1 MK3 Noiseash 31102 Satin SPL Iron VSM-3 VSE-2 Punish Fix Doubler Sonnox Doubler Transatlantic Plate Relab VSR 24
I’m referring more to mixing sound than instruments or synths and things that actually play the music. Plugins based on gear made long after 1989 can help quite a bit. The VSR 24 has been much more helpful to me than any other reverb. I almost exclusively use the 480 for the Effects algorithm. The SCMid button on the 737 when using it across a mix is something I like to do. I wish it were as simple as just using emulations of 1980s things, but there’s quite a bit more work involved.
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Post by saltyjames on Jan 17, 2020 22:17:53 GMT -6
I think the best “80s sounding stuff” in pop happened in the first half of the 90s My wife says this about every decade. How the 60’s we’re really 65-75. Same with the 50’s and 80’s Interesting to see that others agree about the limited track count. Also I’ve considered that it’s not only limited tracks. But limited signal paths. Like there may be more than one instrument on a tape track, but it still follows the same path in the console. Yes big hair. Yes giant shoulder pads. ..also. No much layered bass parts. I know sting always doubled his bass part, but other than that mostly the bass is single tracked and not layered with a bunch of synths etc.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 17, 2020 22:27:02 GMT -6
I try to duplicate a lot of those sounds. There’s a few things that I think help: Cranesong-Phoenix, Peacock, RA BX Console SSL E and N Overloud Dopamine Overloud Eq 84 Duende Bus VLB902 UAD 1176 UAD 176 UAD Avalon 737 UAD 480 UAD Precision Delay UAD 102 UAD Neve DFC UAD RMX 16 UAD 2500 Tube Tech MK II Weiss DS-1 MK3 Noiseash 31102 Satin SPL Iron VSM-3 VSE-2 Punish Fix Doubler Sonnox Doubler Transatlantic Plate Relab VSR 24 I’m referring more to mixing sound than instruments or synths and things that actually play the music. Plugins based on gear made long after 1989 can help quite a bit. The VSR 24 has been much more helpful to me than any other reverb. I almost exclusively use the 480 for the Effects algorithm. The SCMid button on the 737 when using it across a mix is something I like to do. I wish it were as simple as just using emulations of 1980s things, but there’s quite a bit more work involved. I don’t really get this. None of the things listed make those songs sound the way they did. None of it was around... Grab a Juno, an AMS reverb and delay, a few unbalanced Roland Rack mount chorus/delay units, and a bunch of guys strung out on coke in a studio with way too much label money and a bunch of synths they’ve never seen before. Maybe get an overly emotional lead singer.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,928
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Post by ericn on Jan 17, 2020 23:02:02 GMT -6
Talented people playing, no DAW or auto tune.
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Post by viciousbliss on Jan 18, 2020 0:56:22 GMT -6
I try to duplicate a lot of those sounds. There’s a few things that I think help: Cranesong-Phoenix, Peacock, RA BX Console SSL E and N Overloud Dopamine Overloud Eq 84 Duende Bus VLB902 UAD 1176 UAD 176 UAD Avalon 737 UAD 480 UAD Precision Delay UAD 102 UAD Neve DFC UAD RMX 16 UAD 2500 Tube Tech MK II Weiss DS-1 MK3 Noiseash 31102 Satin SPL Iron VSM-3 VSE-2 Punish Fix Doubler Sonnox Doubler Transatlantic Plate Relab VSR 24 I’m referring more to mixing sound than instruments or synths and things that actually play the music. Plugins based on gear made long after 1989 can help quite a bit. The VSR 24 has been much more helpful to me than any other reverb. I almost exclusively use the 480 for the Effects algorithm. The SCMid button on the 737 when using it across a mix is something I like to do. I wish it were as simple as just using emulations of 1980s things, but there’s quite a bit more work involved. I don’t really get this. None of the things listed make those songs sound the way they did. None of it was around... Grab a Juno, an AMS reverb and delay, a few unbalanced Roland Rack mount chorus/delay units, and a bunch of guys strung out on coke in a studio with way too much label money and a bunch of synths they’ve never seen before. Maybe get an overly emotional lead singer. Like I said, I’m not talking about instruments and the like. I should’ve also added some Eventide stuff. Newer bands try to do the 80s thing now and they use a lot of the trademark devices and whatnot used back then, but the modern digital sound is still obvious. The most successful attempts I’ve heard are by artists like Gunship and Alae Noctis. I’d recommend “When you grow up your heart dies” and “Video game champion” by the former and “Murder One” by the latter. You could maybe group “Days of Thunder” by The Midnight in there too. There’s definitely a noticeable difference when using a 902 de-esser as opposed to something modern. An Eventide harmonizer definitely has a real recognizable sound too. I spot it on classic records pretty often. The Noiseash 31102 was a big help at getting me a much more smooth and pumped up sound than I had been getting before. Another thing is that I don’t really use a lot of modern stuff. Never been a big fan of linear phase eq and stuff like Gulfoss and Smartcomp didn’t really win me over either. I also don’t do beat detective or whatever it’s called, drum replacement, or much beyond occasional automatic mode vocal tuning. Maybe these things would sound fine for this 80s purpose, but the concepts just never appealed to me. The tape thing is another relevant area. What kind of character you want from them along with other analog pieces.
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Post by oliviadolphinjohn on Jan 18, 2020 2:33:56 GMT -6
I was there. We were just trying to do something new compared to the 70s and there were a bunch of new toys and techniques that seemed cool at the time but that sound very dated now. Under the influence of various substances it didn't seem nearly as limited as it actually was. We were trying to make it sound like something that worked in that era's radio and MTV and thats why there seems to be a common thread. To do it now would be like doing it in a vacuum because there's no MTV, no music industry folks thinking they're gonna hit it big, and no culture of fashion people to support the image. And of course we already know now what happens musically and fashion-wise in the 1990s and 2000s so the mystery of exploration and discovery of all those wacky toys and recording them to analog tape is gone, which is certainly a part of that sound..
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Post by Omicron9 on Jan 18, 2020 8:55:57 GMT -6
Gated reverb on the snare for sure.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 18, 2020 9:57:53 GMT -6
It’s not just the reverbs and synths. It also seems there is simpler song structures and somewhat simpler (less bloated) instrumentation. I recently noticed that track limits (usually 24) simplifies things. Chorused guitars, DX7’s Lots of space in choruses, fuller verses instrumentation. Which seems to be reversed nowadays. Tape on everything so a smoother high end. Excited for the group’s wisdom here.
The stock synths in LogicX are perfect for 80s sound. My mentor had a few hits back in the 80s and as far as I understand they layered sounds, did a lot of experimentation, sometimes going wild. Hired people which had even more experience than they are. I think it always comes down to instrumentation / arrangement both goes had in hand, every decade has its sound, style, trends...
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 18, 2020 15:11:35 GMT -6
What's this "limited track" thing? We had 24 track machines and if you insisted on being Queen you could always sync two together for 46 or 3 for 69! Or rent a 48 track Stephens or two.... It really isn't necessary to give each 3 or 4 bar snippet its own track.... Geez, haven't you guys ever heard of razor blades?
Track count never stopped RTB!
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Post by professorplum on Jan 18, 2020 16:35:20 GMT -6
when everything sounds bad and the music sucks thats usually a dead giveaway....
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Post by drbill on Jan 18, 2020 19:15:52 GMT -6
Lots of things.
- Production esthetic - working with consoles, tape and sequencers. - Drum Machines - Synths (P5, Oberheims, Rolands) - Real players - especially as they could play, double even triple without "quantizing". - LAYERING! Lots of layered bass, synths, guitars, snares, etc.. - the WRITING - the ARRANGEMENTS
Among other things.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 18, 2020 19:23:06 GMT -6
These guys nailed it.
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Post by Ward on Jan 18, 2020 19:48:55 GMT -6
It was arguably the height of technical musicianship in the studio in pop music. GenX came along and made polished musicianship uncool. We did NOT.
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Post by Ward on Jan 18, 2020 19:52:47 GMT -6
My wife says this about every decade. How the 60’s we’re really 65-75. Same with the 50’s and.... More like 55-62 the 50s 63-72 the 60s 72-81 the 70s 81-92 the 80s 93-2009, the 90s And we’ve been in no man’s land since then.
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Post by shoe on Jan 18, 2020 21:26:18 GMT -6
My wife says this about every decade. How the 60’s we’re really 65-75. Same with the 50’s and.... More like 55-62 the 50s 63-72 the 60s 72-81 the 70s 81-92 the 80s 93-2009, the 90s And we’ve been in no man’s land since then. I disagree about the 90s. 90s is more like 93-99, to me. It was sort of a short period. 2000-2006 was kind of a strange in between period of lots of plastic pop stuff and then you have like 2006-2016 or so which was a period of a lot of Indie Rock and more popularization of hipster stuff. Nowadays I feel like we're in a period of a little bit of everything that isn't a ton different from the 2006-2016 period but with more synths.
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 18, 2020 21:43:45 GMT -6
To me it’s analog synths meeting digital fx and reverbs. Big drums meeting un-natural ambiences/spaces.
Everything maximized to the extreme! And bright.
But still big budgets and decent songs/songwriting (for the most part). Nothing like the 60’s, but still a level of professionalism you can hear, even if a goofy track.
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Post by jamiesego on Jan 19, 2020 15:16:01 GMT -6
To me it’s probably the drum sounds, the keyboards/synths, and the guitar tones, (and maybe the cocaine use). The type of console, outboard, and tape has a lot less to do with it in my opinion. You could probably find records done from the late 70’s all the way to the late 90’s that used the same gear but sound radically different.
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Post by saltyjames on Jan 19, 2020 17:55:46 GMT -6
To me it’s probably the drum sounds, the keyboards/synths, and the guitar tones, (and maybe the cocaine use). The type of console, outboard, and tape has a lot less to do with it in my opinion. You could probably find records done from the late 70’s all the way to the late 90’s that used the same gear but sound radically different. hmm.. Good point.
There was a definite 80's guitar sound, and the programmed drums. Yeah.. some of the same gear used in the 90's didn't sound the same. There is probably an interesting distinction here that could reveal a lot of what made the 80's (81-88/89 - in my mind) sound like the 80's.
Aqua Net, shoulder pads, neon, cocaine, wine coolers.. I digress.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 19, 2020 18:20:50 GMT -6
To me it’s probably the drum sounds, the keyboards/synths, and the guitar tones, (and maybe the cocaine use). The type of console, outboard, and tape has a lot less to do with it in my opinion. You could probably find records done from the late 70’s all the way to the late 90’s that used the same gear but sound radically different. Forgot to mention that my mentor talked a lot about linn drums...
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