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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 6:13:08 GMT -6
Lipo-Flavonoid is a registered trademark for a mix of vitamins and a bit melatonin. Pretty much a placebo with a mild sleep regulating hormone that also helps with jetlag... To my knowledge, there is no med with a proven positive effect on tinnitus that exceeds placebos. Tinnitus is not so uncommon in the musicians community, as it is for many people who had some severe acustical stress on their ear, as veterans, industry workers with exposal to loud machines etc. ... I know quite a few guitarists who suffer from tinnitus. AFAIK reducing stress is a good (realistic) common treatment approach, some try meditation or yoga, a healthy lifestyle etc... As we all know, hearing is easy manipulated by psychological conditions, mood, stress, exposal to loudness, so the approach is to manipulate the hearing, not the signal heard, to be less prominent up to the point where it is below conscious perception... Some of my worst nightmares, actually. From time to time I have some tinnitus-like noises due to problems with the sinuses, obviously this can induce several effects on pressure equalization with the eustachian tubes, sounds harmless, but since I was exposed to heavy loudness in young years in small rehearsal rooms filled with full stacks of marshall terror... Each time I am a bit anxious, that it could not go away some day. I was lucky until now, fortunately...
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Post by sirthought on Nov 5, 2019 7:27:36 GMT -6
FYI today's guest on NPR Fresh Air will be talking about hearing damage and tinnitus. If you don't catch it on air, it's usually available later online. EDIT: Here's the link
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 13:46:47 GMT -6
I'm so happy to realize I'm not alone in this. Ugh. It's really been scaring me lately. This is very comforting.
I've had very low-level tinnitus for some time now from being young and stupid and not wearing earplugs to concerts early on, then later from playing a very loud Marshall stack, which even with earplugs at all times, was pretty over the top. In that low-level state, it has never been much issue for me, but in the past couple years I've developed pretty terrible chronic inflammation in my TMJ, which has caused persistent tinnitus in both ears and at its most severe, some extreme sensitivity to certain frequencies. I've been addressing it with massage therapy with varying degrees of success. So far, myofascial release has been the most successful treatment. Stress management is something I need to address for sure, as I'm sure stress and anxiety is what causes me to clamp my jaw down all the time. I also think the shear stress of dealing with tinnitus causes it to get much louder because I'm so focused on it. It's a terrible cycle, because if you can train yourself to ignore it, it effectively goes away, but it's very stressful, so it's very hard to ignore.
White noise generators are your friend for sure. I have an app on my phone that I run when I go to bed, or in any situation where I'm in a really quiet space and it's acting up. A surprisingly low volume amount is typically sufficient to relax me and mask the sound. I'm interested in trying some other techniques. I've heard that if you can isolate the frequencies (relatively), then subtract those completely from white noise and listen to that for a period of time every day, it will trick your brain into ignoring those frequencies. Something I plan to figure out.
I monitor at low volumes. One thing I definitely need to do is stop spending too much time in headphones. I'm cautious with volume for sure, but I still probably should avoid them when possible. I won't track anywhere other than the control room anymore. The volume you have to push your headphones to if you're standing next to a drum set is way too much for me.
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Post by christopher on Nov 6, 2019 14:21:38 GMT -6
I went through some periods where my ears and sinuses were so bad I had to stop all projects for months. my ears can get inflamed at varying amounts. When it’s totally closed, it’s easy to tell what’s going on because it’s just like earplugs. When it’s partially inflamed, tinnitus is high but I can still hear so it’s hard to tell what is going on. I used to worry about my ears, but I’ve learned that when my inflammation in my ENT goes down, the tinnitus goes down as well. I’ve never been allergic until last few years, and been down to near complete deafness and roaring tinnitus for months. Good news I can share, for me, is if inflammation and sinuses actually drain..(which is not easy to tell if they are drained or not) things do get better. Right now I feel about as normal as I have for past 15 years.
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Post by oliviadolphinjohn on Nov 6, 2019 17:40:21 GMT -6
I had it bad for a couple of years after doing some dumb things in a studio both with loud monitors and drumming. I still use one of those clock radios that has surf or rain sounds at night. It upset me, particularly because I thought it was permanent so there's this feedback loop of hopelessness that can go along with it. At some point though I worried less about it, not sure how many years ago. There's a gap in there somewhere because I actually forgot about it for a while. But it seemed like after I was less freaked out by it, it actually lowered in volume. Maybe my brain adapted to it in such a way that I don't normally notice it now, but I'd say at least I don't believe it is hopeless. I'm perfectly comfortable now just like before it happened.
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Post by veggieryan on Nov 7, 2019 14:35:22 GMT -6
Things I have noticed: 1. My tinnitus is around 17.8k. It seems related to cell phone towers. I notice when I visit family in a rural area it starts to get very faint after about a week. Once I return to town it comes back louder. I have been researching and its possible that some 5g frequencies are already coming online... that plus the overall increase in 4G and other EMF sources seems to cause issues for many people. We had our smart meter removed which seemed to help. We turn off the wifi at night and I avoid using cell phones... keep iphone data in 3g mode only when driving, etc.
2. Supplements helped. Chelated magnesium, curcumin extract of tumeric, ginkgo biloba with vinpocente, food based B vitamin complex, vitamin D3/K2, Omega oils. My green drink 2 times a week is spirulina with a gel cap of Astaxanthin and NOW brand Beta Carotene from d. salina. Very strong antioxidants from that combo alone. Generally it seems the EMF is a load on our bodies and we need supplements to help fight the "fatigue" that can lead to tinnitus and tired ears. After the supplements my ears feel strong and I don't get tired of listening to music. Getting a nice bed and getting good sleep helps. Not drinking and smoking helps. Less caffeine helps. Less stress helps. Once my ears feel stronger it helps because I am not worried about the tinnitus like there is something wrong... the less your worry the less you think about it and it goes away. Its like a feedback loop.
3. I switched to studio monitors with silk dome tweeters and now use a Demeter VT-275HF hifi stereo tube amp to drive them from my nice JCF converters. This seems to make a big difference in fatigue and tinnitus.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 7, 2019 19:42:57 GMT -6
I used to blast my guitar amps like a guitar hero in my teens and early 20s. Have had a tiny ring probably since I was young.
When I got my Fender Deluxe 112 combo, the vintage Big Muff pedal (my first pedal), cranked it up, pointed it up at my face, that was when it really came on in its full form. I was depressed about it for a long time, bordering on obsession at times. For me it's a high ring, but if it's irritated with extra loudness, a low tone becomes noticeable. I've had friends and family develop this obsession as well. I try to talk them down from it but it's hard.
I am more sensible now, wear earplugs in loud situations. Play loud sometimes but only in moderation, and only for limited periods of time. If you know the safe limits you can still do this stuff for the most part, without making it worse. I still track drums and loud guitars but I take breaks. You need quiet time to recover from any loud noise exposure. Try to keep my Focal monitors at medium to low most of the day since I am listening probably 4+ hours every day. It's cumulative. Look into the government recommended SPL/time level charts, it's helpful to reference.
Also have chronic sinus issues, which affects hearing and ear ringing both. Recently started nasal spray and that helps a LOT. Helps me to hear better too.
Surprisingly my hearing is pretty good. Sometimes I have problems hearing in loud untreated rooms. There is some measurable damage to some outer hairs or something but I can still hear most frequencies and levels. Mine tops off around 15-16 kHz. Right ear has always just been a tiny been "darker" sounding. I'm in my late 30's. To me, the times of having trouble hearing people speak are much more worrisome than the tinnitus.
Like a lot of problems in life you can learn to cope and survive, sometimes even improve a bit. It's good to hear from everyone else, it's good not to feel different or wrong. I'm not surprised that it's a common occurrence in this field.
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Post by oliviadolphinjohn on Nov 8, 2019 15:04:07 GMT -6
This reminds me, I got my ears professionally cleaned last year and couldn't believe how much of a difference it made in high end detail.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 8, 2019 17:42:00 GMT -6
This reminds me, I got my ears professionally cleaned last year and couldn't believe how much of a difference it made in high end detail. Great avatar and screen name.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 21:17:05 GMT -6
I suppose it’s dumb luck that my rock days were done before massively powerful amps came along. I got scared of level decades ago and have kept things down ever since. But I’ll still get a touch of minor tinnitus if I’m really tired.
Some years back, I developed software for a company under contract to the US Department of Defense. They were trying to improve the quality of life for veterans who’d spent years operating howitzers and the like. Turns out that big guns aren’t so good for your hearing. Who knew? The therapy was based on the idea of gently stimulating the frequencies where tinnitus is experienced. There’s sound science that shows that the frequencies of tinnitus are right where hearing is lost. Your mind inserts a tone where there isn’t anything. Gentle music was slightly boosted in those areas of loss. The patient listened to an hour or so each day. Transients were minimized. The key was the relaxation of the listener.
I have to stress that I didn’t come up with the idea—I just wrote software. But it seems that if you have a recent hearing chart, you might be able to do this for yourselves. There’s no cure—just coping.
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Post by stratboy on Nov 15, 2019 6:34:53 GMT -6
I use an app called SPLnFFT when I’m in the studio. It helps me stay real when I want to turn it up. I try to stay at or below 70dB. Doing that, plus stress reduction and other techniques mentioned in the thread have helped me manage my tinnitus. Which I got from years of playing on cramped club stages with the drummer’s crash cymbal way too close to my left ear.
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Tinnitus
Feb 15, 2020 1:52:11 GMT -6
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Post by proxy on Feb 15, 2020 1:52:11 GMT -6
I’ll chime in too, as I think it’s been helpful to know you’re not alone.
I played in a loud touring band for a year, next to one of the loudest (and most amazing) drummers. I should have used plugs but I was young, dumb, and felt so disconnected from everyone when I tried to play with plugs. And, the sound of all of us playing was the most glorious sound in the world. Truly out of body musical experiences.
But now, many years later, 1K has collapsed in my right ear (the side the drummer was on), and fortunately, my left ear is currently totally normal, above average for my age. The effect of the 1K dip also means I’m very sensitive to the frequencies adjacent to it, particularly 3K.
The strange byproduct of that sensitivity is I feel it’s made me much better dealing with the upper midrange. Well-mixed tracks rarely aggravate that range, and so if that pain kicks in, I know I need to sculpt that area.
I’m really a producer, not a mixer, so the loss wasn’t totally devastating to me, but it was really heart wrenching when it first dropped. But now that I’m forced to address the midrange with extra sensitivity, my roughs have never been as well-received as the last couple of years. Go figure.
I certainly wish I had been more careful, because long-term, live playing rock and roll wasn’t for me, and I much prefer being in the studio. I’m very careful now, and cherish my left ear hearing, and will keep making music as long as music is to be made.
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Post by swafford on Feb 15, 2020 4:38:26 GMT -6
I got tinnitus in my right ear when I was 20 after a bacterial infection. It's pretty loud, masks about 8K and is louder than a room AC running at full blast, louder after caffeine intake. It doesn't bother me much except when I'm trying to have a conversation in a noisy place and someone is on my right.
Funny story: when my wife and I first got married, we use to do a lot of car travel. She doesn't like to drive and I do, so she was always on my right in the car. I was always asking her to speak up, to the point where she insisted I go to the doctor, who of course recommended I get tested by an audiologist. After the testing, they told me what I already knew - the high frequency ringing in my right ear masked consonants and made it difficult for me to follow a conversation in a noisy environment.
I asked my doctor if I needed a hearing aid. She said no. I told her that my wife insisted I needed one and asked if he had any suggestions and I made her write them out:
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Tinnitus
Feb 15, 2020 10:15:10 GMT -6
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 15, 2020 10:15:10 GMT -6
I’ve noticed a couple times after taking large doses of Advil for migraines (800mg), my ears would ring loudly for up to a week. When my doctor told me that it could be permanent, I stopped taking Advil or nsaids.... apparently it’s a pretty common (but rarely discussed) side effect.
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Tinnitus
Feb 15, 2020 10:47:58 GMT -6
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 15, 2020 10:47:58 GMT -6
I’ve noticed a couple times after taking large doses of Advil for migraines (800mg), my ears would ring loudly for up to a week. When my doctor told me that it could be permanent, I stopped taking Advil or nsaids.... apparently it’s a pretty common (but rarely discussed) side effect. Just large doses?
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 15, 2020 10:48:29 GMT -6
I think I read that ear wax build up causes tinnitus.
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Tinnitus
Feb 15, 2020 12:19:22 GMT -6
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 15, 2020 12:19:22 GMT -6
I’ve noticed a couple times after taking large doses of Advil for migraines (800mg), my ears would ring loudly for up to a week. When my doctor told me that it could be permanent, I stopped taking Advil or nsaids.... apparently it’s a pretty common (but rarely discussed) side effect. Just large doses? That’s when it’s happened to me, but it pretty much scared me off of it completely.
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Tinnitus
Feb 15, 2020 12:30:24 GMT -6
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 15, 2020 12:30:24 GMT -6
Well damn. It looks like this is actually a thing. Why had I never heard of this before?!? I kinda feel angry that I haven’t. I regularly pop ibuprofen for headache and muscle ache/back pain. Damn it. I AM angry about this. So it’s Tylenol or bust then?
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Post by Ward on Feb 15, 2020 15:31:51 GMT -6
I try to stay away from lots of noise that tends to aggravate the condition, but when it's too quiet, the ringing in my ears just drives me nuts!! (granted it's a short drive)
Anyone else find that?
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Post by dmo on Feb 15, 2020 17:47:41 GMT -6
Few clarifying comments from my day job perspective: 1. Lots of medications have some degree of ototoxicity and have been linked to tinnitus - aspirin and NSAIDs (ibuprofen, naproxen, etc), antibiotics (mostly the ...mycins - including today's all to frequently prescribed z-pac), some antiidepressants, some blood pressure medications - in general usually dose related but not always. Recent studies have shown that for ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil) there's little benefit in doses over 400mg - so staying at that dose every 6-8 hours likely to be okay with minimal risk. 2. Noise exposure also well documented (hence OSHA noise standards) and definitely a risk for most here. Avoiding excessive dB and prolonged exposure obviously good practices, but I admit I don't always wear plugs and drums onstage are loud ( as well as firearms - but ear protection not always high priority in a firefight) 3. DoD invested a lot of research and there's pretty good evidence that antioxidants can be effective in reducing tinnitus and hearing loss after acoustic trauma. The best studied medication is N-acetyl cistiene (NAC) which is also the antidote for acetaminophen (Tylenol) poisoning.
bottom line - avoid unnecessary medications, use lowest dose possible, discuss with your doctor if symptoms develop. Occasional low dose ibuprofen probably generally safe. If you do decide to avoid and just use Tylenol -make sure you take as directed - there's a reason it has an antidote.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 21:39:22 GMT -6
Aspirin for RSI from guitar and handwriting gives me tinnitus. Ibuprofen doesn't but isn't as effective for the pain.
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Post by dmo on Feb 15, 2020 21:47:30 GMT -6
Not surprised, aspirin is one of the worst offenders, unexplained tinnitus in elderly (prior to widespread use of NSAIDs) was often a symptom of chronic aspirin toxicity and would prompt checking an aspirin (ASA) level in the ER.
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Post by iamasound on Feb 16, 2020 12:26:02 GMT -6
Besides the typical youthfully exuberant ignorance of gradually turning up the amps in the practice room for three hour rehearsals, two events contributed to my high frequency loss. Once at a Dead concert in Madison Square Garden somebody behind the board did something that enabled this crazy high frequency squeal that must have lasted 5 or 6 seconds that had me and everyone around me centered around row 10 in front of the stage left stack bent over with our hands over our ears in near hysteria from the ice pick like pain. It was maybe two weeks layer before I felt as if I was no longer listening to the sounds of the world from an under water perspective. The other hammer blow came one 4th Of July at a garden party with friends in Hoboken. I was standing and talking to two woman about 10 feet from the corner of the yard which had about a seven foot wooden fence when some huge asshole of a guy threw a firecracker that whizzed by my head and landed on the ground about 6 feet from the corner. The initial sound wasn't too bad, but I remember that sound of the crack, visually as well as tactily bound off of the fence right/left and hit me square in my right ear which was facing the fence corner. It really hurt and the tinnitus that afflicted that ear lasted about six weeks. Back in the day local Hobokan folk called themselves Nobos (like nah-boz) and my Nobo buddies offered to "go and destroy him to pieces" but I shook it off and that dickhead got a pass from broken dreams and a waking nightmare. To this day there are times when that ear hurts so much that I can't even turn my head from the incredible hurt. If I run the ear under hot water the pain gradually subsides, but it happens maybe 15 times a year. Fucking guy.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 16, 2020 18:21:20 GMT -6
Ironically, my having Post Traumatic Stress, actually helped preserve my hearing. Since in my case, it leads to natural avoidance of loud sound volume. Even though I've sung with (very) loud bands locally... I'd (at least) stick ear plugs halfway, during my performance onstage. Then put them in all the way-after. As many of you can attest, it's usually better onstage volume-wise vs. in the audience (close to the stage). Other things being equal, this is part of the reason I enjoy singing more in a Acoustic setting... Versus a loud Rock or Soul Band. (shhh...don't tell my local Pro music friends! Chris P.S. Because of my sharp hearing, I'm usually the one who helps the Band (after being asked!), with their Club set up. I've learned to be pretty subtle over the years, to not bug the Soundguy! (I'm friends with some of them too now BTW)
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Post by chessparov on Feb 16, 2020 18:29:11 GMT -6
Sorry to see you guys have to deal with this. Would a good hearing aid, along with low volume listening help much?
Am curious partly, for my local musician friends... Chris
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