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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 22, 2019 12:15:24 GMT -6
Nice...I might consider adding one of these to my rig... www.uaudio.com/apollo-x4.htmlApollo x4 allows musicians and producers to easily track, overdub, and mix larger projects with elite-class A/D and D/A conversion, four Unison-enabled preamps, and QUAD Core realtime UAD plug-in processing — all in a desktop Thunderbolt 3 audio interface for Mac and Windows. Built upon UA’s 60-year heritage of audio craftsmanship, Apollo x4 confidently outperforms everything in its class, with 127 dB D/A dynamic range and an included bundle of UAD analog emulation plug-ins, giving you a fully-stocked analog studio, right on your desktop. Record and mix with elite-class A/D and D/A conversion — with the widest dynamic range and lowest noise of any desktop interface Four Unison-enabled preamps — track larger projects with near-zero latency through preamp emulations from Helios, Neve, API, Manley, and more* Onboard UAD QUAD Core processing lets you track and mix with the included Teletronix LA‑2A and 1176 compressors, Pultec EQs, and 610‑B Tube Preamp & EQ plug-ins Cascade up to 4 Apollo interfaces and 6 UAD-2 devices over Thunderbolt, adding DSP and I/O as your studio grows |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 22, 2019 12:21:13 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 22, 2019 13:40:31 GMT -6
$1799 at Sweetwater basically a 4 unison pre, 4 dsp but Gen X in terms of architecture, converters, guess it has the new crystal clock(s) x 2?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 15:34:06 GMT -6
I've read the crystal clock is only on the rackmount x units..
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Post by phantom on Oct 22, 2019 15:48:30 GMT -6
$1799 at Sweetwater basically a 4 unison pre, 4 dsp but Gen X in terms of architecture, converters, guess it has the new crystal clock(s) x 2? Unfortunately, they couldn't put the crystal clocks on these units. I guess this would be the only difference to the rack Apollos. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 22, 2019 16:02:56 GMT -6
Actually, maybe Drew can confirm, if it has 1 new crystal clock, not two like the X6 etc. Apollos or or has the clock of the bf ?
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 22, 2019 21:14:16 GMT -6
Honestly, the price is Hugh enough that I’d probably just get another 8
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Post by Quint on Oct 22, 2019 21:23:46 GMT -6
Honestly, the price is Hugh enough that I’d probably just get another 8 Kind of what I was thinking too, or maybe the x6. I guess if you need a portable/desktop type of solution, the x4 might be worth it. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 22, 2019 22:29:50 GMT -6
With an apollo don’t you get the free satalite still ? Hell, sell your x6 and buy 2 and you get that crazy plug in deal too right ?  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 22, 2019 23:32:10 GMT -6
With an apollo don’t you get the free satalite still ? Hell, sell your x6 and buy 2 and you get that crazy plug in deal too right ? Doh. I forgot. I have the x6. Not 8. What crazy plug deal? |
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Post by sirthought on Oct 23, 2019 3:04:55 GMT -6
With this, versus the next higher priced x6, you miss four extra outputs, extra ADAT i/o, word clock sync, SPDIF i/o, the upgraded clocking circuit, and 50% more DSP for tracking/mixing. You save $400, but depending on how you work with other outboard equipment, that money could be worth those extras. Just the two extra DSP chips would be pretty expensive if you tried to add it on later.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 23, 2019 4:34:47 GMT -6
If you buy 2 apollo interfaces within about a month of each other you get like $1,000 of plugs: think it’s called the double down deal but it can’t be combined with the satellite deal.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 23, 2019 4:36:27 GMT -6
I think the X4 is really about going mobile or price point: it’s well but not full featured?
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 23, 2019 4:37:58 GMT -6
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Post by aremos on Oct 23, 2019 9:36:28 GMT -6
Have never used the UAD converter/interface stuff. Is it that good compared to Prism, Lavry, Apogee Symphony etc.?
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Post by joey808 on Oct 23, 2019 10:34:04 GMT -6
Is it possible to externally clock via adat?
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 23, 2019 10:45:48 GMT -6
Optical in and out. So it could be clocked
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 23, 2019 11:40:38 GMT -6
aremos simple answer is yes, the X series has the best architecture that UA has, with X16 ha big best DA, I think all have same AD and the X6,8, and 16 have the 2 new crystal clocks: one at 44.2 the other ag 47 and their multiples. The X apollos other then the 4 and twin also have 6 on board sharc dsp chips for maximum ua dsp for tracking.
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Post by sirthought on Oct 24, 2019 7:08:11 GMT -6
Have never used the UAD converter/interface stuff. Is it that good compared to Prism, Lavry, Apogee Symphony etc.? This info is taken from a moderator at the UAD Forum site. Of course, numbers only tell part of the picture, but it's safe to say UA interfaces are well positioned in the upper end of the marketplace: / Apollo mk I (Silver) / *Apollo (-16dBfs) AD 117dB A, 10k Ohm DA 118dB A, 600 Ohm Mon 114dB A, 600 Ohm HP 113dB A, 80mW @ 600 Ohm Gain +10–65, 5.4k Ohm HiZ 117dB A, 2.2M Ohm, 12dBu max Latency 1.1ms (1.23ms measured) RTL @ 96kHz via Console *Apollo 16 (-16dBfs) AD 119dB A, 10k Ohm DA 118.5dB A, 600 Ohm Mon 115dB A, 600 Ohm Latency 1.1ms RTL @ 96kHz via Console *Twin/Twin USB (-16dBfs) AD 117.5dB A (Line), 118dB A (Mic) DA 118dB A, 600 Ohm Mon 115dB A, 600 Ohm HP 113dB A, 80mW @ 600 Ohm Gain +10–65, 5.4k Ohm HiZ 118dB A, 1M Ohm Variable (Unison) Latency 1.1ms RTL @ 96kHz via Console / mk II (Black) / *Twin mk II (-16dBfs) AD 120dB A (Line), 118dB A (Mic) DA 121dB A, 600 Ohm Mon 115dB A, 600 Ohm HP 113dB A, 80mW @ 600 Ohm Gain +10–65, 5.4kOhm HiZ 117dB A, 1Mohm Variable (Unison) Latency 1.1ms RTL @ 96kHz via Console *8p (-16dBfs) AD 120dB A, 10kOhm DA 121dB A, 100Ohm Mon 121dB A, 100Ohm HP 118dB A, 160mW @ 300Ohm Gain +10–65, 5.4kOhm HiZ 118dB A, 1Mohm Variable (Unison), 12.4dBu max Latency 1.1ms RTL @ 96kHz via Console *16 mk II (-16dBfs) AD 119dB A, 10k Ohms DA 126dB A, 100 Ohms Mon 123dB A, 100 Ohms Latency 1.1ms RTL @ 96kHz via Console / mk III (X Series) / *Twin X (-16dBfs) AD 123dB A, 10k Ohms (122dB line) DA 126dB A, 100 Ohms Mon 127dB A, 100 Ohms HP 124dB A, 96W RMS @ 300 Ohms Gain +10–65, 5.5k Ohms HiZ 121dB A, 1Mohm Variable (Unison), 12.2dBu*max Latency 1.1ms RTL @ 96kHz via Console *x4 (-16dBfs) AD 123dB A, 10k Ohms (122dB line) DA 127dB A, 100 Ohms Mon 127dB A, 100 Ohms HP 124dB A, 96mW RMS @ 300 Ohms Gain +10–65, 5.5k Ohms, Max input with pad +25.6dBu HiZ 122dB A, 1Mohm Variable (Unison), 12.2dBu*max Latency 1.1ms RTL @ 96kHz via Console *x8p (-16dBfs, -20dBfs) AD 123dB A, 10k Ohms (122dB mic) DA 127dB A, 100 Ohms Mon 129dB A, 100 Ohms HP 125dB A, 150mW RMS @ 300 Ohms Gain +10–65, 5.5k Ohms, Max input with pad +26dBu HiZ 121dB A, 1Mohm Variable (Unison), 12.4dBu*max Latency 1.1ms RTL @ 96kHz via Console *x16 (-16dBfs, -20dBfs) AD 124dB A DA 127dB A Mon 133dB A Latency 1.1ms RTL @ 96kHz via Console // Apogee // *Symphony I/O (assignable) AD 120dB A, 10k Ohms DA 129dB A, 25 Ohms HP 119dB A, 30 Ohms *Symphony I/O mk II (assignable) AD 122dB A, 10k Ohms DA 126dB A, 25 Ohms HP 121dB A, 80mW @ 600 Ohms *Ensemble mk II AD 119dB A, 5k Ohms DA 123dB A, 90 Ohms HP 120dB A, 80mW @ 600 Ohms *AD16X (variable) AD 120dB A // AVID // *Digi 192 (-18dBfs) AD 120dB A DA 118dB A *HD I/O (-18dBfs) AD 122dB A DA 125dB A *Omni I/O (-16dBfs) AD 118dB A DA 120dB A HP 118dB A Gain +65dB // Slate // *VRS-8 (-16dBfs) AD (channels 1-4) 127dB A AD (channels 5- 124dB A DA 123dB A Mon +20dBu max HP 160mW @ 300 Ohms HiZ 121dB A, 1Mohm, 12dBu*max Gain 53dBu, Max input with pad +18dBu Latency < 1ms RTL @ 96kHz AD Latency 5 samples DA Latency 6.25 samples // Antelope // *Orion Studio 2017 AD 124dB A DA 120dB A Mon 129dB A *Goliath HD AD 124dB A DA 129dB A Mon 132dB A // PreSonus // *QUANTUM (-14dBfs) AD 120dB A DA 120dB A Line Inputs > 118dB A, 10k Ohms HP 110dB A, 175mW/Ch @ 56 Ohms // Lynx // *Aurora 8/16 (-16dBfs) AD 117dB A DA 117dB A |
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Post by svart on Oct 24, 2019 8:11:02 GMT -6
Is it possible to externally clock via adat? Why? ADAT standard allowed huge amounts of jitter. External clocks are notoriously worse for jitter than internal clocks anyway. Always use internal clocks unless there is a reason to sync a handful of units to a single clock. |
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Post by svart on Oct 24, 2019 8:13:56 GMT -6
So, what is this "crystal clock"?
I tried to look it up and all I found were KCAT in other forums talking about it and marketing fluff.
Are they truly XTAL based clocks or is it just a marketing name?
Technically, quartz crystals are not very good clock sources, so I'm not following why this would be an upgrade since most internal clocking systems for the last 30 years start with a quartz XTAL anyway..
Besides, quartz oscillators down at 44.1K are very hard to come by as they need to physically large, so I'm assuming they're using a higher multiple based on the oversampling rate, such as 22.579MHz (512fs @ 44.1KHz or 512 x the sampling rate) which is usually ingested by the converter chips directly.
The only things that significantly reduce jitter and artifacts are dividing down the higher clock signal and starting with an oscillator with low jitter to begin with.
Also, one thing of engineering interest is that most oscillators, both XTAL and digital synthesis, produce harmonics at multiples of the fundamental frequency. You can simply lock PLL's to the harmonics to get "multiple" base reference frequencies from a single clock output.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 24, 2019 8:46:06 GMT -6
Maybe Drew can give a technical explanation but the change with the X apollos is they have two crystal clocks : one whose base rate is 44.1 and it’s multiples, the other 48 and it’s multiples.
The idea is to reduce digital artifacts of the math happening in the background and produce cleaner sound and I think produce lower jitter as well ?
This explained at ua forum when X was released.
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Post by svart on Oct 24, 2019 8:57:52 GMT -6
Maybe Drew can give a technical explanation but the change with the X apollos is they have two crystal clocks : one whose base rate is 44.1 and it’s multiples, the other 48 and it’s multiples. The idea is to reduce digital artifacts of the math happening in the background and produce cleaner sound and I think produce lower jitter as well ? This explained at ua forum when X was released. My SSL alphalinks have had two crystals like that since 2005. They're just integer multiples of the lower clocks that use external logic dividers to derive the lower frequencies. Not perfect, but decent enough that I never have issues with jitter, although this isn't a modern approach I would take these days. SOS said that UAD claims jitter less than 10ps with the "Crystal Clock", but the clocks I used in my converters were less than 1ps and readily available off the shelf, so I'm still not following what the improvement is. They were digital synths BTW, not quartz based. But, I'm still not understanding why they wouldn't just use the MHz clocks into the A/D and D/A chips as internally dividing down the clock in the chips would yield a much lower noise level than using external dividers. Maybe Drew can explain, but I think this is probably more technical than he could tell us for proprietary reasons. As a designer who does RF and clocking with noise and jitter constraints an order of magnitude more stringent than audio devices require, I just don't see the marketing meeting the technology on this one unless they figured out a novel approach that nobody else has figured out in decades and decades of designs, which I doubt. |
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Post by sirthought on Oct 24, 2019 9:50:51 GMT -6
The X series clocking wasn't marketed as groundbreaking in the marketplace overall. It was just promoted as new and never seen on the UAD Apollos. Better, for them. And I believe what they had before as far as AD conversion and clocking was very good, but they wanted to show growth and improvement in the marketplace...thus the changes.
The new desktop units couldn't handle the same level of heat generated by the dual clocking circuits (right term??), so they are using what Twins have used from the start.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 24, 2019 10:38:33 GMT -6
I just remember what Gannon said on product launch.
I found the point about jitter and reduced artifacts interesting, I. The sense that there is less math going on in the background and the math that is occurring is more precise?
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