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Post by stormymondays on Oct 3, 2019 23:48:12 GMT -6
Did somebody say....preamp? Yeah, can you imagine if someone was making a great sounding and not insanely expensive 4-channel tube pre? BTW you’re still selling the stereo one right?
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Post by bluegrassdan on Oct 4, 2019 6:36:24 GMT -6
I am currently in another phase of testing and redesigning things a bit. Gonna hold off on sales until after the first of the year when I go to a PCB design, different chassis, and custom transformers.
As we have all learned, there is no “one most-important thing” when it comes to recording. Except one: if the music does not resonate with listeners in some way, it won’t matter what gear you use.
Personally, I tell everyone that the best thing about our studio is not the API console, or the mics, or the outboard gear. The best part is our 16-channel Aviom cue system. As a musician, I’ve worked in too many studios where the engineer was way too excited about his cool gadgets while the headphone mix was intolerable. If the musicians can’t hear each other well, they won’t be inspired.
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 4, 2019 13:26:07 GMT -6
Maybe name your top five favorite recordings, and then ask yourself was that a one console album? Every recording I did in a major studio used the boards preamps, no messing with separate ones. No musician or producer I knew complained, ever, about the preamp in a vintage API or Trident 80 series, Neve console or even the SSL 9000. I just think there's a part of this whole debate that bugs me and subscribes to the "If I only owned (insert gear here)" I'd make better recordings. I've recorded on Neve and Trident consoles and I've mostly done a bunch of stuff that's an amalgam of different pres. Both approaches worked well and had very little to do with the cohesion or quality of the end result. My 2 cents.
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Post by Guitar on Oct 4, 2019 14:29:07 GMT -6
Maybe name your top five favorite recordings, and then ask yourself was that a one console album? Every recording I did in a major studio used the boards preamps, no messing with separate ones. No musician or producer I knew complained, ever, about the preamp in a vintage API or Trident 80 series, Neve console or even the SSL 9000. I just think there's a part of this whole debate that bugs me and subscribes to the "If I only owned (insert gear here)" I'd make better recordings. I've recorded on Neve and Trident consoles and I've mostly done a bunch of stuff that's an amalgam of different pres. Both approaches worked well and had very little to do with the cohesion or quality of the end result. My 2 cents. Completely agree. Recorded a couple tracks at a "big" studio with a vintage API console, etc. Turns out I'm not going to release them because I wasn't thrilled with some of the perfomances. Oh well. It was an experiment anyway. They sounded very good in terms of sound quality. Nothing I've never heard before though. Walked into the local "big studio" near where I live. They had massive racks of desirable vintage gear, vintage API console, Neve console, and so on. I was overcome with a massive feeling of "That's nice, But I don't care." It's all about the people. The engineer was very nice that I met. Those rooms were damn nice too.
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Post by chessparov on Oct 4, 2019 14:45:29 GMT -6
Generally I agree with this kind of sentiment. But... It did blow mind how great a SM7 sounded (for my voice) through the Little Labs LMNOPre. Funny, $400 mic, through around $1600 street price (then) Pre. Could get a nice U89i>Onyx or Audient set up for that! Chris
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 4, 2019 16:23:39 GMT -6
lpedrum, my comment had nothing to do with saying "if I only owned", so I don't see why you quoted me. This thread is about possibly changing from using multiple preamps to one kind of preamp. My point was I think one preamp (like in a console) is likely a better choice than mixing them up. That's also why I suggested taking a few minutes to think on what albums stormymondays liked the sound and feel of most. In my case, most of the albums I still love and listen to were done on one console with the consoles preamps.
There's no rule here of course .Perhaps I'm not as well versed in preamp choices as some of the guys here are, and they love having multiple choices. I'm certainly not the last word ;-) I think one preamp on all the tracks brings cohesion to a recording, and I prefer that. Also, it makes recording that much easier.
Now.. which preamp is a different question. I'd prefer a Neve or SSL. That's why I'm kind of interested in the SSL Six. I'm thinking of selling a couple of nice preamps to buy the Six. I'm in no rush, so I might find other alternatives, like the Silver Bullet or Dangerous 2 Bus +
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 4, 2019 18:33:37 GMT -6
lpedrum, my comment had nothing to do with saying "if I only owned", so I don't see why you quoted me. This thread is about possibly changing from using multiple preamps to one kind of preamp. My point was I think one preamp (like in a console) is likely a better choice than mixing them up. That's also why I suggested taking a few minutes to think on what albums stormymondays liked the sound and feel of most. In my case, most of the albums I still love and listen to were done on one console with the consoles preamps. There's no rule here of course .Perhaps I'm not as well versed in preamp choices as some of the guys here are, and they love having multiple choices. I'm certainly not the last word ;-) I think one preamp on all the tracks brings cohesion to a recording, and I prefer that. Also, it makes recording that much easier. Now.. which preamp is a different question. I'd prefer a Neve or SSL. That's why I'm kind of interested in the SSL Six. I'm thinking of selling a couple of nice preamps to buy the Six. I'm in no rush, so I might find other alternatives, like the Silver Bullet or Dangerous 2 Bus +
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 4, 2019 18:48:09 GMT -6
lpedrum, my comment had nothing to do with saying "if I only owned", so I don't see why you quoted me. This thread is about possibly changing from using multiple preamps to one kind of preamp. My point was I think one preamp (like in a console) is likely a better choice than mixing them up. That's also why I suggested taking a few minutes to think on what albums stormymondays liked the sound and feel of most. In my case, most of the albums I still love and listen to were done on one console with the consoles preamps. There's no rule here of course .Perhaps I'm not as well versed in preamp choices as some of the guys here are, and they love having multiple choices. I'm certainly not the last word ;-) I think one preamp on all the tracks brings cohesion to a recording, and I prefer that. Also, it makes recording that much easier. Now.. which preamp is a different question. I'd prefer a Neve or SSL. That's why I'm kind of interested in the SSL Six. I'm thinking of selling a couple of nice preamps to buy the Six. I'm in no rush, so I might find other alternatives, like the Silver Bullet or Dangerous 2 Bus + Sorry Martin -- I should have directed my comment to the whole thread. I do like the idea of using multiple pres as a single coloration on drums for instance. Dogears seems to have a nice 4 channel pre as do others. But I do think the past twenty years or so have proved over and over again that a console is not needed to make great cohesive sounding recordings. I would change your question to stormymondays to "what records since 2000 do you really love?" Many were probably recorded with the multiple pre method. I own a Silver Bullet, and that among other things helps with mix cohesion.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 4, 2019 18:53:23 GMT -6
These things are entirely situational. If you’re tracking a full band I’d say it’s infinitely easier and “better” to use a good console as opposed to dozens of different individual preamps. But it’s mainly a work flow thing. It’s so much easier, quicker, and its more enjoyable (for me) to work that way and that does translate to “better sounding”. If for no other reason than I’m able to concentrate more on the sound and less on making a million patches on the bay.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Oct 4, 2019 20:58:33 GMT -6
While y'all are debating preamps... I just spent the last four hours switching between output transformers in my tube preamp from a 4:1 Jensen 50% nickel to a Tamura silicon steel with 4:1, 3:1, 2:1, and 1:1 output strapping options. There is a gargantuan sonic difference between the Jensen at 4:1 and the Tamura at 1:1. ..but, you know...preamps schmreeamps Anyone care to listen and tell me which you prefer? Jensen 4:1, Tamura 2:1, Tamura 1:1
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 5, 2019 4:48:37 GMT -6
Very cool Dan. I’ll give them a listen later.
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Post by bricejchandler on Oct 7, 2019 1:39:49 GMT -6
While y'all are debating preamps... I just spent the last four hours switching between output transformers in my tube preamp from a 4:1 Jensen 50% nickel to a Tamura silicon steel with 4:1, 3:1, 2:1, and 1:1 output strapping options. There is a gargantuan sonic difference between the Jensen at 4:1 and the Tamura at 1:1. ..but, you know...preamps schmreeamps Anyone care to listen and tell me which you prefer? Jensen 4:1, Tamura 2:1, Tamura 1:1I like the Tamuras over the Jensen. I kind of go back and forth on which Tamura I like better. On some words I like The extra clarity and bite of 2:1, but on others I found the added weight of 1:1 to be nice. I didn't like the Jensen at all to be honest. For my tastes I would go with Tamura 1:1 along with a hipass somewhere in the circuit in case the low end becomes overbearing; but my ears gravitate towards smooth and unhyped and I could definitely see how someone would want the extra bite of 2:1. It's rather amazing how much a difference the transformers make, it sounds like a totally different preamp from take to take! What mic are you using? It sounds 47ish and really beautiful! Edit: I'm listening on my focal headphones, not my monitors, and when on my headphones I tend to be a bit overly sensitive to brighter sources so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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Post by matt@IAA on Oct 7, 2019 7:02:25 GMT -6
While y'all are debating preamps... I just spent the last four hours switching between output transformers in my tube preamp from a 4:1 Jensen 50% nickel to a Tamura silicon steel with 4:1, 3:1, 2:1, and 1:1 output strapping options. There is a gargantuan sonic difference between the Jensen at 4:1 and the Tamura at 1:1. ..but, you know...preamps schmreeamps Anyone care to listen and tell me which you prefer? Jensen 4:1, Tamura 2:1, Tamura 1:1I liked the Jensen, but the Tamura 2:1 was also interesting. To me the Jensen just sounded classier and velvety in a good way.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 7, 2019 8:35:36 GMT -6
Listening on my humble Yamaha HS7s. Solo I really like the Tamura 2:1, but something tells me the 1:1 or the Jensen would sit better in a mix without much EQ. The Tamura 1:1 sounds a little bigger than the Jensen. It's kind of the in between the other two. Still..... that's what EQ is for. That 2:1 in a more acoustic setting would sound super nice. A good pultec or pultec plugin could get you the air you need from vocal and a simple roll off at 50 or 80 hz would help as well if you go with the 2:1. I almost want to throw it into protools and start playing with EQ and see what happens. Maybe later if I have a few mins.
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Post by Guitar on Oct 7, 2019 11:14:10 GMT -6
The Jensen sounds better to me, more definition and clarity.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Oct 7, 2019 12:07:32 GMT -6
Things develop quickly around here and those samples are even now obsolete. After scoping, I realized there was a huge resonant bump with the Tamura at 1:1 and 2:1 in the low frequencies due to inductance. A happy mistake.
That "glorious" sounding microphone was a humble but useful Audio Technica 4040!
Anyhow, I'll quit hijacking the thread. Carry on.
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Post by matt@IAA on Oct 7, 2019 12:15:53 GMT -6
Put an R//C in series before the transformer winding and you can tune that bump however you like.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Oct 7, 2019 13:15:13 GMT -6
Put an R//C in series before the transformer winding and you can tune that bump however you like. Spent Saturday and Sunday "tuning" with RCs.
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Post by soundintheround on Oct 7, 2019 14:41:37 GMT -6
I agree picking some favorites and going with them is the better way to go.
If I were to do it all over again probably would have just bought a decent fairly desirable transformer balanced console/side-car with a group of 8-10 channels for drums/misc work. Even if it costed $5k+ would have probably still saved in the long run. Then add some tube pres and/or neve/api to balance everything out and have options. Once you get to a certain level of preamp they all sound pretty great.
In the end if looking for different flavors, it is often the cheap/weird stuff that can be gotten for less than $300-400 that is interesting and stands out from the crowd.
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Post by thirdeye on Oct 9, 2019 22:03:07 GMT -6
After years of using tons of different preamps, I am in the camp of using one style of preamp for most sources these days. I'll track most instruments through "Neve Style" preamps and track vocals through something different, a lot of times a Presonus ADL600. Sometimes I'll use APIs (with pads on the outputs) for the toms to make them sort of "sit on top" and pop through the rest of the drums.
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Post by shoe on Oct 10, 2019 18:58:31 GMT -6
I can go either way on this. My setup is not a console and is designed to record just me, really (and mix stuff for friends). I do have quite a few different preamp options, but I have mostly gravitated to 4 pairs of them. I've also found that I will tend to pick just one or two preamps for a song lately and it seems to contribute to the cohesion of the track.
I do, however, also have certain things I almost always record using the same mic/preamp combo (such as vocals). Recently I did a song where everything besides the Vocals is through a TG2 into a Curvebender and then the Vocals are on a REDD.47 (so not a huge leap). Then I also ran the whole mix through the TG2 and Curvebender again later. I'll likely do this more as this particular project presses on.
So, yeah, I would say go for it with a bunch of the same preamp and perhaps one tube preamp specialized in vocals as well. The BG would probably be just fine if you're not looking to impart a ton of color on things during tracking.
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