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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 16, 2019 8:17:05 GMT -6
I've concluded that the same tracks mixed in the box compared to being run through a mixer fall short. I'm beginning to think that having a mixer even outweighs having outboard preamps in the final result. I've been recording only one or two tracks at a time in my apartment for years now. I'm using the UAD Apollo X6.
I happen to like SSL boards. I've sat in on mixing sessions for Brad Paisley, Neo and James Blunt using the SSL 9000 for both tracking and mixing, and it sounded amazing IMO.
Looking ahead, I eventually hope to have a room where I can track a combo live. Two guitars, bass, drums, keys, vocals. That may be next year, but could be 3-4 years from now.
I'm interested in the SSL Six. It's around $1,300-$1,400 street. I'm also interested in a Soundcraft Delta. For my needs now, the Six seems perfect, other than having some convoluted ways to add outboard and for summing, but I imagine I'll figure it out. The Delta, (or the Ghost) sound really good on tracks I've heard done with it. That would cover me in the future, cost 1/2 or maybe even 1/3 of what the Six costs, but take up lots of room on my small desk in my living room. More importantly, it might not sound as good as the Six.
Any suggestions and thought would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 16, 2019 8:22:49 GMT -6
I've concluded that the same tracks mixed in the box compared to being run through a mixer fall short. I'm beginning to think that having a mixer even outweighs having outboard preamps in the final result. I've been recording only one or two tracks at a time in my apartment for years now, using the UAD Apollo X6 now. I happen to like SSL boards. I've sat in on mixing sessions for Brad Paisley, Neo and James Blunt using the SSL 9000 for both tracking and mixing, and it sounded amazing IMO. Looking ahead, I eventually hope to have a room where I can track a combo live. Two guitars, bass, drums, keys, vocals. That may be next year, but could be 3-4 years from now. I'm interested in the SSL Six. It's around $1,300-$1,400 street. I'm also interested in a Soundcraft Delta. For my needs now, the Six seems perfect, other than having some convoluted ways to add outboard and for summing, but I imagine I'll figure it out. The Delta, (or the Ghost) sound great on tracks I've heard done with it. That would cover me in the future, cost 1/2 or maybe even 1/3 of what the Six costs, but take up lots of room on my small desk in my living room. More importantly, it might not sound as good as the Six. Any suggestions and thought would be greatly appreciated. * from what I've heard, the Dangerous 2Bus + adds some of the vibe I'm looking for, but it's way out of my budget. Why not a CAPI SumBus? |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 16, 2019 8:25:24 GMT -6
Not familiar with that. I know CAPI makes excellent preamps in the 500 series. The 8 X 2 costs $2,750, so that's too expensive for me at the moment. Also, I can't say for sure, but I'm talking about using the mixer's preamps for tracking, and not outboard pres. I shouldn't have mentioned the 2Bus +. It's just that it does have some of the vibe I'm looking for. Hopefully the Soundcraft or SSL will do that for me too.
This may not happen for a while, so I'm just beginning to think on it so I know what I'm aiming for. I might have to sell some preamps to afford the mixer. I'm on a fixed income for a while.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Sept 16, 2019 9:06:42 GMT -6
Mess about with the six at AES this year, and yes, I think it will fit your workflow quite nicely. They pack a lot of features into that little desktop box, and the routing won’t seem so difficult or confusing after you’ve got it set up.
You love the sound of the SSL stuff, so I say go ahead and make it happen for yourself!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 16, 2019 9:10:06 GMT -6
Thanks Jeremy, good to hear from you.
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Post by MorEQsThanAnswers on Sept 16, 2019 9:47:15 GMT -6
matt@IAA makes some awesome stuff too. www.ironageaudioworks.comI've been spending an increasing amount of time looking at his summing mixer and comparing it to the CAPI. Still not sure which route I'm gonna go but interested in following this thread!
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Post by ragan on Sept 16, 2019 10:16:02 GMT -6
I heard some early clips while he was designing that summing mixer and I was a little stunned how good it sounded. I'm used to a standalone summing mixer being a relatively subtle sonic change. Once I get some more Symph I/O I I'll be giving that piece a hard look.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 16, 2019 11:08:51 GMT -6
I feel you’re struggle, I’ve been there many times before. I’d caution against buying something like the SSL if you think you’re going to outgrow it. $1500 is a meaningful amount of money that could put to good use in so many areas.
BUT, if the SSL is what ticks all your boxes, AND you think you can find a good use for it when you eventually get a bigger mixer (like the Soundcraft) then I’d say go for it. I’d definitely wait to see if I could get one on sale or used though. That way you could sell it in the future if your needs change.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 16, 2019 11:17:17 GMT -6
I'm curious which mixer's preamps will sound better. I tend toward clean, and my guess is the SSL, but I really don't know. It's true, I worry about outgrowing the SSL, but then, it may be quite some time before I have a room of my own big enough to track a group. If I'm totally honest with myself, it may never happen. So the SSL seems a better fit, although I'm very comfortable with the layout of a board like the Soundcraft, and it's also much less costly.
I've used this example before, but to give you an idea, this is the kind of vocal sound I prefer.
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Post by svart on Sept 16, 2019 11:51:41 GMT -6
matt@IAA makes some awesome stuff too. www.ironageaudioworks.comI've been spending an increasing amount of time looking at his summing mixer and comparing it to the CAPI. Still not sure which route I'm gonna go but interested in following this thread! I spent some time corresponding with him on designs of of his. He's definitely got a good sense of electronic design and his products should be really good. |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Sept 16, 2019 11:55:43 GMT -6
Not to be a distraction, but is your dissatisfaction linked to the gear you're tracking and mixing with, or is it the sonics of the small room where you're tracking? I'm guessing the tracking and mixing sessions you sat in on took place in nice sounding rooms, and probably would have sounded nice, if not quite as awesome if mixed ITB.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 16, 2019 12:42:38 GMT -6
Well, the sonics do play a part, but that is not the root of what I'm looking to improve on. Decades back, I had an analogue studio in my living room that I used every day for more than ten years. At that time, I also worked in high end studios regularly. I had no issues at all with the sound I was getting at home. It was in a similar space to the one I'm in now, maybe a bit nicer. So I have lots of experience using analogue gear.
Recently a friend ran the same mix twice, once through his board, the other without. The difference wasn't subtle. The analogue vibe was there, with a wider stereo image, better depth and realism. I've heard finished tracks go through the Dangerous 2 Box + with similar results. One reason I'm thinking on the SSL is the built in compression.
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Post by teejay on Sept 16, 2019 14:40:18 GMT -6
Yikes. And just when I thought the only thing left to do is procure the right mic.
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Post by wiz on Sept 16, 2019 14:54:29 GMT -6
Get a small soundcraft delta and get Jim Williams to mod
That way when you can get bigger later
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 16, 2019 17:34:42 GMT -6
That was my first thought Wiz, thanks. The SSL is tempting too, and a nice fit for my space, so I'm thinking on it.
Todd, I'm just looking forward and being picky. I did my last album with the Apollo, so it's not a big compromise without a board, just different.
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Post by wiz on Sept 16, 2019 17:53:55 GMT -6
That was my first thought Wiz, thanks. The SSL is tempting too, and a nice fit for my space, so I'm thinking on it. Todd, I'm just looking forward and being picky. I did my last album with the Apollo, so it's not a big compromise without a board, just different. I dont think the SSL six will do long term...I think the EQ isn't flexible enough For the cost of the SSL, you will be well into Delta land for sure Cheers Wiz |
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 16, 2019 17:57:55 GMT -6
Well, the sonics do play a part, but that is not the root of what I'm looking to improve on. Decades back, I had an analogue studio in my living room that I used every day for more than ten years. At that time, I also worked in high end studios regularly. I had no issues at all with the sound I was getting at home. It was in a similar space to the one I'm in now, maybe a bit nicer. So I have lots of experience using analogue gear. Recently a friend ran the same mix twice, once through his board, the other without. The difference wasn't subtle. The analogue vibe was there, with a wider stereo image, better depth and realism. I've heard finished tracks go through the Dangerous 2 Box + with similar results. One reason I'm thinking on the SSL is the built in compression. Mix into some clean gear on the 2 bus and you get a very similar experience. I sold my console because mixing into the makeup stage of the ART Pro VLAII. If your decision is not because of the sonics in this case you will need something bigger compared to the ssl mini mixer.... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 16, 2019 20:00:22 GMT -6
It's mainly the sonics. If the SSL sounds better than the Soundcraft Delta, I'd laen that way. It'll be a few months before I'm in position to look at buying anything, so I have time to research.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 17, 2019 1:50:02 GMT -6
Have fun considering, as you are on the east coast, just a little shout out for Skip at Creative Audio in Nashville, who also provides expert mod services.
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 17, 2019 5:03:03 GMT -6
matt@IAA makes some awesome stuff too. www.ironageaudioworks.comI've been spending an increasing amount of time looking at his summing mixer and comparing it to the CAPI. Still not sure which route I'm gonna go but interested in following this thread! His summing mixer is stellar. I have to finish my video on it. |
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Post by teejay on Sept 17, 2019 15:18:58 GMT -6
Todd, I'm just looking forward and being picky. I did my last album with the Apollo, so it's not a big compromise without a board, just different. Martin, just re-read my earlier post and realize it may have conveyed a different interpretation than what I intended based upon your response. Just to clarify, I meant it jokingly only towards myself and the current path I'm on, not in any way about you or your gear/decisions. I.E.: Just when I thought all I had to do was get the one right mic, now I see where adding something like the SSL Six may be a plus I hadn't considered. My apologies if came across like I was questioning your thoughts or decisions. Not my intent at all. Todd |
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Post by Quint on Sept 17, 2019 15:37:09 GMT -6
Pick up a used Focusrite 2802/Audient ASP2802. That checks a lot of boxes.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 17, 2019 17:22:37 GMT -6
No apologies necessary Todd  Getting a great mic is still my first recommendation and my personal goal. I have some really good mics, but so far, only the Chandler REDD was world class and I can't afford that. I'm really hoping the next Stam SA67 hits the bullseye so I don't have to keep looking until I have plenty of money to choose with. The tracks I heard comparing a mix with and without a board were done on a modified Soundcraft Ghost, so I'm already certain the Soundcraft can be great with some mods. The SSL is a better fit for me right now, but I can probably get a 24 channel Delta for less than half of what the SSL costs, so I have some thinking and listening to do. I actually don't have room for a bigger board like the Delta, but can squeeze it in somehow if I decide it's better that way. I'd love to get a chance to try the SSL Six. There was a demo here in NYC at Alto Music a while back, but unfortunately I wasn't able to attend. |
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Post by wiz on Sept 17, 2019 18:36:25 GMT -6
No apologies necessary Todd Getting a great mic is still my first recommendation and my personal goal. I have some really good mics, but so far, only the Chandler REDD was world class and I can't afford that. I'm really hoping the next Stam SA67 hits the bullseye so I don't have to keep looking until I have plenty of money to choose with. The tracks I heard comparing a mix with and without a board were done on a modified Soundcraft Ghost, so I'm already certain the Soundcraft can be great with some mods. The SSL is a better fit for me right now, but I can probably get a 24 channel Delta for less than half of what the SSL costs, so I have some thinking and listening to do. I actually don't have room for a bigger board like the Delta, but can squeeze it in somehow if I decide it's better that way. I'd love to get a chance to try the SSL Six. There was a demo here in NYC at Alto Music a while back, but unfortunately I wasn't able to attend. My first delta had 8 channels,... I did an album on that. Consider that path first buy a smaller frame. I don't sum through mine, I reamp . Cheers Wiz |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 17, 2019 19:30:43 GMT -6
Wiz, so you don't run out of your DAW to the Delta and back for mixing?
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Getting a great mic is still my first recommendation and my personal goal. I have some really good mics, but so far, only the Chandler REDD was world class and I can't afford that. I'm really hoping the next Stam SA67 hits the bullseye so I don't have to keep looking until I have plenty of money to choose with.